Is it 1g or 2g of protein per pound of bodyweight and mecury poisoning

[nkingy2003]

I weigh 170lbs so I try to eat 170g of protein per day but some days only eat around 140-150. I try to eat foods that has a high level of protein such as fish or meat so that I am getting a lot of protein but not too much fat. However I have read a few posts were they talk about 2g or protein per lb of bodyweight which would be 340g of protein for me. Is my diet at the moment good for building mass?

Another thing. I have heard that eating too much tuna can give you mecury poisoning or something like that. How much is too much? 1 can a day? And what is mecury poisoning? does it kill you or what?

[W.EAGLE]

To build mass and gain weight, it's a good rule of thumb to take in about 1.5 to 2 grams per lb body weight. As far as mercury poisoning, I've never heard that, but I sure as hell hope not, or I'm almost dead! Tuna's one of my main staples!

[demonwareltd]

Don't worry about the mercury poisoning...it's overrated and just eating a couple cans of tuna a day won't do you any harm.

Also, try using some whey protein supplements to get your protein levels a bit higher...I would strive for at least 1.5 x body weight

[jamrock]

To grow you need a calorie surplus. So if you have about 1.5g of protein per lb of LBM a day, but are only taking in 1800 calories total you won't grow. Even if this was 3g of protein and you were under on your calories. So find your caloric maintenance, and increase it by 20%. Make sure that you consume 1.5g of protein and fill in the rest with good carbs and healthy fats and you will see results.

There is less mercury in regular tuna than in albacore. You can also used canned chicken, and maybe even sardines and such if you like that sort of stuff.. It's high on the sodium, but if you're taking in a lot of water shouldn't be a problem.

[nkingy2003]

are there any kind of side effects from whey protein? My approach is to just eat regular food high in protein, I dont really like eating man made supplement. But if there is nothing wrong with it then why not? How much protein is in one portion of whey protein?

[demonwareltd]

are there any kind of side effects from whey protein? My approach is to just eat regular food high in protein, I dont really like eating man made supplement. But if there is nothing wrong with it then why not? How much protein is in one portion of whey protein?

No side effects and it really isn't a man made supplement like it is artificial or something....whey protein comes from just that whey...

[BluSilver]

1g/lb of LBM is probably sufficient for most trainees as far as protein synthesis goes. Try to limit your tuna consumption. There are many other cheap protein sources such as whole eggs and cheeses.

With how much tuna some bodybuilders eat, it is truly a matter of time. A can a day is fine as long as it's the right kind. But multiple cans a day...treading thin ice.

[nkingy2003]

LBM????? havent heard of this before, im guessing it means lean body mass? So this would mean I have to eat 1g of protein per lb of my bodyweight MINUS my fat? Or have I got this wrong? If thats what this means then I only have to eat about 140-150g protein since I weigh 170g altogether

[canyonracerx]

LBM????? havent heard of this before, im guessing it means lean body mass? So this would mean I have to eat 1g of protein per lb of my bodyweight MINUS my fat? Or have I got this wrong? If thats what this means then I only have to eat about 140-150g protein since I weigh 170g altogether

Yep and it's okay to go over this. I eat almost 2x my bodyweight but that's pretty much all with just whole foods.

[Andrew.Cook]

are there any kind of side effects from whey protein? My approach is to just eat regular food high in protein, I dont really like eating man made supplement. But if there is nothing wrong with it then why not? How much protein is in one portion of whey protein?

1) No side effects. Unless you have side effects from dairy products in general.
2) Whey is "regular" food. To be more precise it is essentially a "pre-digested for you" form of dairy protein.
3) Whey occurs naturally in milk.
4) Nothing wrong with it because it is just food. I don't think we have to defend food as being food at this point in life.
5) typically whey protein ranges between 14g-28g per little scooper.

No side effects and it really isn't a man made supplement like it is artificial or something....whey protein comes from just that whey...

Whey protein comes from whey... deep, man

1g/lb of LBM is probably sufficient for most trainees as far as protein synthesis goes.

True...

Try to limit your tuna consumption. There are many other cheap protein sources such as whole eggs and cheeses.

No reason to limit tuna consumption, but eggs and dairy should also have a place in your kitchen.

With how much tuna some bodybuilders eat, it is truly a matter of time. A can a day is fine as long as it's the right kind. But multiple cans a day...treading thin ice.

Not true, purely alarmist in nature and typical of "old wives tales" mentality. I think that if you do a minimal amount of research into the topic, you will find that mercury levels in American made tuna is nominal at best, and actually more prevalent in Albacore (the "good" stuff) but still far below acceptable levels.

Yep and it's okay to go over this. I eat almost 2x my bodyweight but that's pretty much all with just whole foods.

2x bodyweight in protein is basically overkill. Any more than 50 g in a sitting is going to be wasted, as your body simply can't process and uptake any more than this (as a rule of thumb. I'm sure I'm about to hear of someone's amazing cousin that can digest and process 63g of protein per meal ) Digestion time of protein also plays a role. Whey is very quickly digested and passed through the digestive tract (remember I said it was already "pre-digested?" Yeah, well because of this it requires very little work from your body). Milk, conversely, takes FOREVER to digest (in the grand scheme of things, approximately 6 hours, but that is a long trip down your innards. Whey is sprinting through in roughly 30 minutes time.

[Dominik]

1g/lb of LBM is probably sufficient for most trainees as far as protein synthesis goes.

Here's my problem with these g/lb calculations. Take your typical 160lb @ 15% trainee trying to build muscle. Assuming he's reasonably active, he'll probably need at least 3000~ calories to gain. 1g per lb of LBM = 135g of protein. 540 calories. A measly 18% of his TOTAL calories.

Now assuming he wants to keep his fat intake under 30% (<100g), the rest of his calories, around 50-60%, will be coming from carbs, which could be as high as 450g~. The alternative is more fat or simply not getting enough calories in, period.

When it comes to building muscle, high carb + medium fat + low protein sure doesn't sound like a solid formula to me.

[Andrew.Cook]

Here's my problem with these g/lb calculations. Take your typical 160lb @ 15% trainee trying to build muscle. Assuming he's reasonably active, he'll probably need at least 3000~ calories to gain. 1g per lb of LBM = 135g of protein. 540 calories. A lowly 18% of his TOTAL.

Now assuming he wants to keep his fat intake under 30% (<100g), the rest of his calories, around 50-60%, will be coming from carbs, which could be as high as 450g. The alternative is more fat or simply not getting enough calories in, period.

When it comes to building muscle, high carb + medium fat + low protein sure doesn't sound like a solid formula to me.

Well, I think you are missing out on what exactly that protein is being used for (I mean, not in the general sense). 1g/lb is not really low. It is probably more than most people get, and I can tell you that if you look at human growth and development, NEVER in your life did you ever eat 2g/protein per lb of bodyweight to grow to adulthood. It isn't necessary. Extra protein tends to be treated as any other "extra" in the body. Only a couple things you can do with it: Use it, store it, crap it out. I mean, there is far more to this equation than just saying "eat protein" because it matters when, how much, what kind... so on and so forth. A protein is not a protein any more than a carb is a carb or a fat is a fat. In the end, if you are trying to meet your caloric excess needs by simply ingesting more protein, I think you are going to fail anyway. This idea of cramming ourselves full of protein basically comes from the same school of thought that developed machine guns. Oh, sure, you could spend all day trying to time your protein and account for when it will be most likely to be effective, but why do that when you can just throw a crap ton of protein into your system and let your guts decide the when and how of it. So long as it is available when you need it, the wasted parts are justified. It isn't necessary, it is just easier not to concern ourselves with the details, and most people aren't going to "get it" even if you try to explain protein timing. This is why you get kids drinking 4-5 whey shakes a day. I mean, that is basically pointless, but hey, they are getting their protein, right?

[Dominik]

Well, I think you are missing out on what exactly that protein is being used for (I mean, not in the general sense). 1g/lb is not really low. It is probably more than most people get, and I can tell you that if you look at human growth and development, NEVER in your life did you ever eat 2g/protein per lb of bodyweight to grow to adulthood. It isn't necessary. Extra protein tends to be treated as any other "extra" in the body. Only a couple things you can do with it: Use it, store it, crap it out. I mean, there is far more to this equation than just saying "eat protein" because it matters when, how much, what kind... so on and so forth. A protein is not a protein any more than a carb is a carb or a fat is a fat. In the end, if you are trying to meet your caloric excess needs by simply ingesting more protein, I think you are going to fail anyway. This idea of cramming ourselves full of protein basically comes from the same school of thought that developed machine guns. Oh, sure, you could spend all day trying to time your protein and account for when it will be most likely to be effective, but why do that when you can just throw a crap ton of protein into your system and let your guts decide the when and how of it. So long as it is available when you need it, the wasted parts are justified. It isn't necessary, it is just easier not to concern ourselves with the details, and most people aren't going to "get it" even if you try to explain protein timing. This is why you get kids drinking 4-5 whey shakes a day. I mean, that is basically pointless, but hey, they are getting their protein, right?

The typical person might not take in even 1g per lb of LBM but then they don't look or train like a bodybuilder do they?

Anyway, my argument is pretty straightforward. I'm not saying what amount is "optimal" for an individual. That's going to vary for everyone and that's where experimenting with your diet comes in rather than following some blanket rule like "1g per lb of LBM." What I am saying is there are a lot of people out there who are either eating ****loads of carbs, more fat that they think they are, or they're not getting in enough calories, period, if their protein intake is that low relative to their daily total.

And for what it's worth I drink 4-5 whey shakes a day and have since I started. It helps me hit the targets I aim for. Something quite a few people seem to lose sight of is protein is still a source of calories, equal to carbs. If I'm going to err on any side, given I've seen nothing conclusive to suggest high protein intake has any side effects for a healthy person drinking plenty of water, I'd rather take in more protein than I need than not enough.

[Andrew.Cook]

Protein is not an equal source of calories to carbs. The caloric value is equal per gram, but again, that is only a part of the equation. It takes more energy to process through protein than it does to process carbs. In this way, your calories in vs calories out is not coming up equal with carbs. But I digress.

Certainly the mindset is to eat more than you need. I mean, all of these figures are based on eating more than you need, right? However, how much more than you need should you eat? If 2g is fine, why not 3g? If 1.5g is fine, why bother with 2? I think there is a certain portion of the dietary world that believes less protein is needed if carbs/fat are in adequate supply because then protein can be used exclusively for tissue synthesis, and not needed for energy requirements. If you fuel your body adequately with sources that are meant for this purpose, no protein should be re-directed into energy production. I mean, in the end, what is the harm in eating adequate amounts of carbs/fats so long as your protein needs are being met at a lower g/body weight?

[canyonracerx]

The typical person might not take in even 1g per lb of LBM but then they don't look or train like a bodybuilder do they?

If I'm going to err on any side, given I've seen nothing conclusive to suggest high protein intake has any side effects for a healthy person drinking plenty of water, I'd rather take in more protein than I need than not enough.

^I feel the same here.

[Dominik]

Protein is not an equal source of calories to carbs. The caloric value is equal per gram, but again, that is only a part of the equation. It takes more energy to process through protein than it does to process carbs. In this way, your calories in vs calories out is not coming up equal with carbs. But I digress.

Now we're splitting hairs. I'm trying to get my point across without writing a novel. Yes, the thermic effect of protein is probably double that of carbs and fat. But let's keep this simple.

Certainly the mindset is to eat more than you need. I mean, all of these figures are based on eating more than you need, right? However, how much more than you need should you eat? If 2g is fine, why not 3g? If 1.5g is fine, why bother with 2? I think there is a certain portion of the dietary world that believes less protein is needed if carbs/fat are in adequate supply because then protein can be used exclusively for tissue synthesis, and not needed for energy requirements. If you fuel your body adequately with sources that are meant for this purpose, no protein should be re-directed into energy production. I mean, in the end, what is the harm in eating adequate amounts of carbs/fats so long as your protein needs are being met at a lower g/body weight?

I'm just pro "experimenting" here. A person should use trial and error to find what is optimal for them. That might be 1.2g per lb. 1.5g. 2g. Experiment. Don't take some blanket rule as gospel, as many do. I remember early on in my training some guy was always be harping on in the gym about "1g of protein per lb of body weight." Okay, maybe that was fine for him but what's that got to do with me? I saw him a few months ago and he's still a pencil neck. Anyway...

I've noticed a trend with big strong lifters, whether it's in bodybuilding, powerlifting, or strongman. They all consume a lot of protein. Sure they're monsters, but they had to start somewhere and like I said I'd rather err on the side of eating too much than not enough since a) it's still a source of calories and b) there is no proven health risk in a healthy person.

[Andrew.Cook]

Now we're splitting hairs. I'm trying to get my point across without writing a novel. Yes, the thermic effect of protein is probably double that of carbs and fat. But let's keep this simple.

I'm just pro "experimenting" here. A person should use trial and error to find what is optimal for them. That might be 1.2g per lb. 1.5g. 2g. Experiment. Don't take some blanket rule as gospel, as many do. I remember early on in my training some guy was always be harping on in the gym about "1g of protein per lb of body weight." Okay, maybe that was fine for him but what's that got to do with me? I saw him a few months ago and he's still a pencil neck. Anyway...

I've noticed a trend with big strong lifters, whether it's in bodybuilding, powerlifting, or strongman. They all consume a lot of protein. Sure they're monsters, but they had to start somewhere and like I said I'd rather err on the side of eating too much than not enough since a) it's still a source of calories and b) there is no proven health risk in a healthy person.

I wouldn't even begin to argue that too much protein is going to hurt you.

I also think that experimenting is good, I think that you know that by now

Anyway, this discussion has pretty much reached the end of its entertainment value. So I'm off.

[zyzyx]

Now we're splitting hairs. I'm trying to get my point across without writing a novel. Yes, the thermic effect of protein is probably double that of carbs and fat. But let's keep this simple.

I'm just pro "experimenting" here. A person should use trial and error to find what is optimal for them. That might be 1.2g per lb. 1.5g. 2g. Experiment. Don't take some blanket rule as gospel, as many do. I remember early on in my training some guy was always be harping on in the gym about "1g of protein per lb of body weight." Okay, maybe that was fine for him but what's that got to do with me? I saw him a few months ago and he's still a pencil neck. Anyway...

I've noticed a trend with big strong lifters, whether it's in bodybuilding, powerlifting, or strongman. They all consume a lot of protein. Sure they're monsters, but they had to start somewhere and like I said I'd rather err on the side of eating too much than not enough since a) it's still a source of calories and b) there is no proven health risk in a healthy person.

All this worry over protein is bull****. I grow like a weed on 0.7g/lb. I know of at least one pro bodybuilder who eats only 100g a day. I know of a big natural bodybuilder who eats only 50g a day.

The body does not need a lot of protein to grow muscle. People eat far more than they need because they are constantly fed dogma about the necessity of high protein. Sure, there is nothing wrong with high protein, and it may even help one to stay lean. But as far as building muscle goes, it really isn't something people need to worry about.

Just listen to your body and eat whatever makes you feel best, whether that be high protein or low protein.

[muscle beast]

I know of a big natural bodybuilder who eats only 50g a day.

Oh Yeah? Well I knew this guy that did reps with 10lbs on the bar and his chest was BIG AS HELL

[davis_s]

Tuna does have alot of mercury. All fish do. The further up the food chain the worse it is. Health Canada recommends no fish for nursing mothers and children, and 2 or under for others. Tuna is worse than other fish because the further up the food chain you go in the ocean the more concentrated the mercury get and tuna is near the top as it is a large fish. It is why I eat salmon, same amount of protein (maybe a gram off) per serving, and I only eat that twice a week. Maybe I am buying into bull**** maybe not, but I would rather not take my chances with something like mercury.

[Dominik]

All this worry over protein is bull****. I grow like a weed on 0.7g/lb. I know of at least one pro bodybuilder who eats only 100g a day. I know of a big natural bodybuilder who eats only 50g a day.

The body does not need a lot of protein to grow muscle. People eat far more than they need because they are constantly fed dogma about the necessity of high protein. Sure, there is nothing wrong with high protein, and it may even help one to stay lean. But as far as building muscle goes, it really isn't something people need to worry about.

Just listen to your body and eat whatever makes you feel best, whether that be high protein or low protein.

You totally missed my point. I did not say "1g per lb of LBM" would not be adequate for building muscle. I said what is optimal is something you should work out through trial and error rather than following some blanket rule like that. And there are plenty of genetic freaks out there who do well in spite of their training and diet. Exceptions rather than the rule.

However the main thing I was trying to get across is if you're only taking in a small amount of protein relative to your TOTAL CALORIES, then what proportion of carbs and fat make up the remaining calories? You say 135g of protein a day is enough for you @ 195. Okay, that's only 540 calories. I'll assume you're consuming at least 2500 a day to grow if you're sedentary. So approx. 20% of your calories come from protein and less than that if it's 3000 or more. That leaves 80% to be divided up between carbs and fat. If your fat intake is around 25% or less, that's 55% or more coming from carbs. Essentially high carb + medium fat + LOW PROTEIN. If it's working for you, great. A lot of people are sensitive to high levels of carbs, don't want to consume more than 30% in fat, so they consume more protein.

For the last time, if there's no health risk associated with a high protein intake and it's the key to building muscle tissue, why would you want to err on the side of consuming too little rather than too much? ****, if I'm taking in 100g a day too much that's only a few protein shakes. Big deal. I'm not saying you need X amount to grow. But I think you'll find many people take in less protein than they think they do which is often a lot less than they actually need. Anyway, each to his own. I've found what works for me and that wasn't through following blanket rules. Not what "makes me feel best" but what gets results.

[zyzyx]

You totally missed my point. I did not say "1g per lb of LBM" would not be adequate for building muscle. I said what is optimal is something you should work out through trial and error rather than following some blanket rule like that. And there are plenty of genetic freaks out there who do well in spite of their training and diet. Exceptions rather than the rule.

However the main thing I was trying to get across is if you're only taking in a small amount of protein relative to your TOTAL CALORIES, then what proportion of carbs and fat make up the remaining calories? You say 135g of protein a day is enough for you @ 195. Okay, that's only 540 calories. I'll assume you're consuming at least 2500 a day to grow if you're sedentary. So approx. 20% of your calories come from protein and less than that if it's 3000 or more. That leaves 80% to be divided up between carbs and fat. If your fat intake is around 25% or less, that's 55% or more coming from carbs. Essentially high carb + medium fat + LOW PROTEIN. If it's working for you, great. A lot of people are sensitive to high levels of carbs, don't want to consume more than 30% in fat, so they consume more protein.

For the last time, if there's no health risk associated with a high protein intake and it's the key to building muscle tissue, why would you want to err on the side of consuming too little rather than too much? ****, if I'm taking in 100g a day too much that's only a few protein shakes. Big deal. I'm not saying you need X amount to grow. But I think you'll find many people take in less protein than they think they do which is often a lot less than they actually need. Anyway, each to his own. I've found what works for me and that wasn't through following blanket rules. Not what "makes me feel best" but what gets results.

And you also missed my point.

You can get results with very little protein. There is no evidence that high protein consumption will increase the rate at which you build muscle. People need to listen to their bodies and find out what works for them. If you are in tune with your body, you will know what is right for you.

I never claimed someone should err on the side of too little rather than too much. I said listen to your body, and do what is right for you (what makes you feel best, because yes they are the same thing).

I take in about 3800 cals a day. So about 15% protein. Sometimes I have used less, sometimes maybe more. It makes no difference to how fast I build muscle. That was my point. People let dogma fuel their beliefs so if they aren't building muscle quickly, they think maybe they aren't eating enough protein. Bull****. They aren't eating enough calories or they aren't training properly.

If high protein works for you, great. Keep at it. But realize that only a fraction of that is being used for muscle growth, repair, etc. The rest is extra. Like I said, there is nothing WRONG with extra, but it IS extra.

Edit: btw, genetic freaks? Do you think maybe the muscles of these 'genetic freaks' contains less protein than your muscles? What does genetics have to do with it? Please explain.

[t-p-c]

If high protein works for you, great. Keep at it. But realize that only a fraction of that is being used for muscle growth, repair, etc. The rest is extra. Like I said, there is nothing WRONG with extra, but it IS extra.

really?

can u back that up with evidence?

[zyzyx]

really?

can u back that up with evidence?

I can give some scientific studies. Is that what you are looking for? They are not very well designed, but there are some out there. Ask, and I will dig them up.

Here is probably the best article I have seen on the protein debate:
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...ein_debate.htm

[spirit3530]

I take in about 3800 cals a day. So about 15% protein. Sometimes I have used less, sometimes maybe more. It makes no difference to how fast I build muscle. That was my point. People let dogma fuel their beliefs so if they aren't building muscle quickly, they think maybe they aren't eating enough protein. Bull****. They aren't eating enough calories or they aren't training properly.

.

[Dominik]

I take in about 3800 cals a day. So about 15% protein. Sometimes I have used less, sometimes maybe more. It makes no difference to how fast I build muscle. That was my point. People let dogma fuel their beliefs so if they aren't building muscle quickly, they think maybe they aren't eating enough protein. Bull****. They aren't eating enough calories or they aren't training properly.

This is where you completely missed my point, believe me. If you are only consuming 15% in protein, then that's either a ****load of carbs, a ****load of fat, or plenty of both. Anyway, keep doing whatever you think is working for you. For all anyone here knows you could look nothing at all like a bodybuilder.

If high protein works for you, great. Keep at it. But realize that only a fraction of that is being used for muscle growth, repair, etc. The rest is extra. Like I said, there is nothing WRONG with extra, but it IS extra.

You can't prove that. And what isn't being used specifically for that purpose is still a source of calories as I explained.

Edit: btw, genetic freaks? Do you think maybe the muscles of these 'genetic freaks' contains less protein than your muscles? What does genetics have to do with it? Please explain.

"What does genetics have to do with it?" I LOL'd, seriously.

[Lion Heart]

From my experience when cutting 1 gram per pound of total body weight seems to do the trick. With bulking I go up to 1.5 grams.

[zyzyx]

This is where you completely missed my point, believe me. If you are only consuming 15% in protein, then that's either a ****load of carbs, a ****load of fat, or plenty of both.

I fail to see the problem. Carbs and fat are used for energy, just like excess protein.

Anyway, keep doing whatever you think is working for you. For all anyone here knows you could look nothing at all like a bodybuilder.

True. If you want to bring looks into it, I cannot argue since I don't have a picture. And obviously I respect that what you do has worked great for you. You are freaking huge. I'm sure you also realize that I am not arguing against what you and many others do, I am simply pointing out that it isn't NECESSARY, not that it shouldn't be done.

You can't prove that. And what isn't being used specifically for that purpose is still a source of calories as I explained.

Yes it is a source of calories. I totally agree with that. Again, let me restate that I am not arguing against high protein diets, but against the NECESSITY of high protein diets. I am saying that one's body should be the judge of protein intake, not dogma. I agree with you about experimenting. But all the science points to bodybuilders not needing much more protein than sedentary people, or perhaps even less. If they feel better eating more, then they SHOULD eat more. But if they feel better with more carbs and fat instead, then why bother with so much protein, since it has not been demonstrated to increase the rate of muscle growth?

"What does genetics have to do with it?" I LOL'd, seriously.

I'm glad you found it amusing. But that doesn't really answer the question. If we all carry approximately the same amount of protein in our muscles, how can genetics cause one of us to build muscle using far less protein than the other?

[zyzyx]

You know, when it comes down to it we are basically in agreement.

You say experiment. I say listen to your body.

You say go with what gives results. I say go with what makes you feel good, and results will follow.

You say err on the high side. I say it doesn't matter, because the large majority of people already err on the high side.

Neither of us seems to care much about the science, so I guess we are really arguing just for the sake of it. I can see why AC left.

I probably should have left this discussion alone. The only real point I wanted to get across was that if you pay attention to what your body wants, then there is no need to track your protein intake. And I think the only real point you wanted to get across originally is that there is no set minimum to how much protein people should be eating.

We obviously disagree on the importance of macros and that clearly isn't going to change, so f*ck it. I bet I have a bigger e-penis.

[Uriel_da_man]

IMHO "science" behind low protein working to build muscle just as good as high protein is like "science" behind "you can't work a part of a muscle" or like "science" behind "you only need to do 2 sets" etc etc - it's just a matter of time until proven wrong.

If you wanna maximize your muscle growth, you can't take the risk that is to have below-optimal protein consumption. And since your body doesn't really give you strict indicators of what is optimal, you should always eat a little above the estimated optimal.

Though yeah, safe for maybe competitive bodybuilders in the couple weeks before the show, or non-competitors doing keto, 2g/lb is overkill. 1.2-1.5 does the trick for 99% people IMHO.