Ask the chiropractor anything about

[rbk35]

he has checked my neck but it appears to be ok. I guess my main question was if the weakness on my right side being caused by the elbow problem could have caused me to strain my shoulder.

[Deluxe24/7]

I just have to say that my chiropractor has made a believer out of me.

[oziem]

I forgot to mention that my PCP had sent his own daughter to the same chiropractor, but he couldn't refer me. ??? He did want to send me to physical therapy, I had already used up my allotted PT visits for the year with a knee injury.
It should be about healing and treating the cause not the symptoms, too many MD's don't seem to get that nowadays.
If the two are starting to work together that is great for all of us, the patient's health should be put first.
Thanks for responding!

Couldn't agree with you more Marine.

[oziem]

he has checked my neck but it appears to be ok. I guess my main question was if the weakness on my right side being caused by the elbow problem could have caused me to strain my shoulder.

Definite possiblity. They may be interelated. The shoulder, the elbow, the spine, the trap muscle etc should all be checked. You may have a secondary issue since the pullover lift. Or all these symptoms may be the effect of one cause. If your elbow and spine have been adjusted, have healed and perform fine, then reason stands for whatever the cause the shoulder could use some work. I guess that's what will be next on your DC's to do list?

It may be the shoulder should be rested as it compensated for the elbow. An exam could tell if it is a sprain or incidental strain. You may just need some rest. Ask your DC let him see.

[oziem]

I just have to say that my chiropractor has made a believer out of me.

Very nice to say.

I should add we ought to understand health science more so than believe. You will find some good info in those Gonstead pamphlets. You may be better understanding the cause of a loved one's condition and refer them or simply get more out of your own health care by understanding how your body works in relation to the spine and nervous system. Gonstead chiro is a fantastic way to take care of your wellness.

[neyecke]

I have pain in the mid right side of back after doing front barbell squats. I was told by a friend that I may have a rib head out of place. Is there such a bone in the body? The pain is dull and increases when I inhale. If there is such a thing. Can it be treated with one session, or does it have to be multiple sessions?

[oziem]

I have pain in the mid right side of back after doing front barbell squats. I was told by a friend that I may have a rib head out of place. Is there such a bone in the body? The pain is dull and increases when I inhale. If there is such a thing. Can it be treated with one session, or does it have to be multiple sessions?

Neyecke
Most ribs have two attachments to the thoracic vertebrae on the "head". It is possible that the rib head subluxates or dislocates but usually the rib moves along with a sprained thoracic vertebra. If it is only a rib problem usually one adjustment is enough to fix the problem. This may or may not be so in your case. Get it checked out to know.

[SteelyD]

Hi -

I originally posted this in the "Powerlifting" forum before I found this thread, where it seems more pertinent (apologies for the cross-posting):

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=2631071

My S.I. joint flares up a couple times a year whether I'm lifting, or jogging, or opening a refridgerator door. Sometimes after long car trips, etc. I've historically had a weak right S.I., and is always in the back of my mind, especially during my 5x5 program.

Well, Friday, it gave while I was down in a deep squat. Went to chiropractor and had my T5, ilium, and right knee adjusted. Very interesting was some of the tests he did as far as challenging muscle groups to find the weakness. He showed that my left oblique abs were weaker than the right (I think sports chiropractic/eccentric kinesiology is fascinating).

I'll be out for a few days resting up then backing up about a month in my program to come up to weight again.

Anyone else frustrated with a weak S.I., hip, or lower back ligature?

Any suggestions for strengthening?

I got an adjustment last week and it has helped. What's fascinating to me is that a week ago I was, at 35, stronger and more flexible than I've ever been and this week, I can't touch my toes or do even one situp. It's like someone chopped the nerve connection that gives me leverage to pull my torso up and superglued my SI together.

Most of the pain and inflexibility comes when I try to attain a 'bent' position (ie sitting kills me, trying to sit up, or bend over). I hit the pool at the local 'Y' and am able to move a little better for relief. Water is excellent (in my case anyway) for taking the pressure off and recovery.

2 part question:

1. Anything I can do to target strengthening the S.I?
2. Would an orthothic in my right shoe help leverage the weight that I pull doing squats, DL's, and B/O Rows?

This is an amazing thread-- thank you.

-SD

[GM54]

i am CONSTANTLY getting pinched nerves near my shoulder blades and most recently in my lower back...i like to blame it on having a soft mattress at school but now im home and still getting them. is there anything that can be done to avoid pinched nerves, or when they do happen to make them go away quicker? this last one i thought i may have herniated a disc cuz my lower back hurt so bad but it went away..

[oziem]

Hi -

I originally posted this in the "Powerlifting" forum before I found this thread, where it seems more pertinent (apologies for the cross-posting):

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=2631071



I got an adjustment last week and it has helped. What's fascinating to me is that a week ago I was, at 35, stronger and more flexible than I've ever been and this week, I can't touch my toes or do even one situp. It's like someone chopped the nerve connection that gives me leverage to pull my torso up and superglued my SI together.

Most of the pain and inflexibility comes when I try to attain a 'bent' position (ie sitting kills me, trying to sit up, or bend over). I hit the pool at the local 'Y' and am able to move a little better for relief. Water is excellent (in my case anyway) for taking the pressure off and recovery.

2 part question:

1. Anything I can do to target strengthening the S.I?
2. Would an orthothic in my right shoe help leverage the weight that I pull doing squats, DL's, and B/O Rows?

This is an amazing thread-- thank you.

-SD

SD
1. Strengthening SI--step ups, stairs, hills
2. Orthotics may help but you need to use them 24/7 when vertical except for the shower, you always wear them.
3. Thanks for the kudos.

4. If you want more stability to the SI and the musculature, you and you chiro if I may be so bold have to hunt very carefully between T12-S3. There may be a slight disc issue that is unadressed especially the sacral tubercle.
5. There are also case of the occiput condyle being involved with the SI and once set the pelvis calms.
6. If the pelvis is the major and adjusted, and you use orthotics, and do stairs and it is still bad, then try walking on the treadmill backward. You can also supplement the elliptical in reverse but the treadmill backward as awkward as that is, may help.

Of course you do proper core strengthening, etc.....

Hope something in this litany help pal.
Oziem

[oziem]

i am CONSTANTLY getting pinched nerves near my shoulder blades and most recently in my lower back...i like to blame it on having a soft mattress at school but now im home and still getting them. is there anything that can be done to avoid pinched nerves, or when they do happen to make them go away quicker? this last one i thought i may have herniated a disc cuz my lower back hurt so bad but it went away..

Gyro,
love your sandwiches by the way.

You do your exercise, ice/moist heat (always moist/ never dry) when required, get a good bed. Don't underestimate simple walking a few minutes a day to keep yourself limber.


The mid back thing and the low back are probably effects of a problem elsewhere like the SI or C-spine. A proper chiro eval is something you won't regret.
Oziem

[oziem]

An odd pic from long ago bodybuilders Reg Lewis and Dave Draper performing gross manipulation on a film set.
Seriously, this sort of thing is dangerous. Bear hugs, walking on backs, twisting necks can cause serious harm.
Specific chiropractic adjustments, though, are a powerful addition to your training.

http://www.briansdriveintheater.com/...reglewis17.jpg

[CharacterZero]

Today when I was warming up with standing military presses, i got a sharp pain in the center of my upper back. I cut my workout short because pretty much just picking weights up for any exercise hurts it. It hasn't gone away, I am wondering if this is something i should have checked out or just wait for it to go away.

Im not sure what other info would be useful, the pain is in my mid/upper back almost at the bottom of my shoulder blades, around the spine. I can move around fine, but painfully.

[oziem]

Today when I was warming up with standing military presses, i got a sharp pain in the center of my upper back. I cut my workout short because pretty much just picking weights up for any exercise hurts it. It hasn't gone away, I am wondering if this is something i should have checked out or just wait for it to go away.

Im not sure what other info would be useful, the pain is in my mid/upper back almost at the bottom of my shoulder blades, around the spine. I can move around fine, but painfully.

CZ
Here is a prudent and conservative suggestion.
You ice 20 minutes on an hour off. Repeat 3-5 times for two to three days. If you still hurt in two more days see a chiropractor to get adjusted before week's end.
This time frame should (not absolutely mind you) rule out anything unneeded yet give you the best results if needed.
Oziem


If someone were sure they needed an adjustment, the best results are within 6 hours,
and in order of diminishing returns if care began during these time frames:
then 3 days,
then 2 weeks,
6 weeks
3-6 months
3-10 years
15+ there is little disctinction.
I have seen awesome results on folks adjusted in minutes.
I have also been repeatedly amazed at results of discs degenerated over fifty years.

[FearOwnReproach]

Dear Oziem,

My shoulders have been tight and hurting quite a bit lately. I believe it is from doing shoulder shrugs, occasionally using too much weight--200lbs.

I bought a stretch cable tube and have been warming up with that which has helped quite a bit. I noticed when I was doing a shoulder rehab exercise, (lying on my chest on a bench and raising my right hand from the floor to parallel with my horizontal body. There was a severe clicking/pulling, almost as if where my shoulder connects to my chest was popping out of connection and back in each rep! I witnessed a similar phenomenon arm wrestling my buddy last night, like my shoulder was coming unglued from my chest muscle area, and it wasn't painful, just awkward feeling.

What exercises/ice/rehab do you recommend? Can I still lift? How long do I need to take off? Thanks guys.

[Fighterpilota10]

Can you really get arthritis from cracking your knuckles?

[oziem]

Dear Oziem,

My shoulders have been tight and hurting quite a bit lately. I believe it is from doing shoulder shrugs, occasionally using too much weight--200lbs.

I bought a stretch cable tube and have been warming up with that which has helped quite a bit. I noticed when I was doing a shoulder rehab exercise, (lying on my chest on a bench and raising my right hand from the floor to parallel with my horizontal body. There was a severe clicking/pulling, almost as if where my shoulder connects to my chest was popping out of connection and back in each rep! I witnessed a similar phenomenon arm wrestling my buddy last night, like my shoulder was coming unglued from my chest muscle area, and it wasn't painful, just awkward feeling.

What exercises/ice/rehab do you recommend? Can I still lift? How long do I need to take off? Thanks guys.

Was this click at the SC joint? If so it is an accessory joint not a major weight bearer. You can alter your routine and keep lifting (wisely). I would recommend a chiropractic adjustment on it. The SC usually improves greatly in 1-3 adjustments.
There really is no good rehab program for the clavicle. People say there are but frankly once damaged it is tough to stabilize.

[oziem]

Can you really get arthritis from cracking your knuckles?

In a word, no.

And so begins a lengthy discourse:

Arthritis is progressing there already, people "popping" their knuckles probably hastens the decay. So popping is not the cause just a desperate act which brings little result.

If the knuckles were set properly, which is a different motion than what people usually do, it would give relief but not usually a fix. unless there is direct trauma (how many people injure their knuckles?!?), the hand problem is an effect from a cause elsewhere 95% of the time.

The arthritis comes from either metabolic disorders (rheumatiod--an adrenal breakdown cuasing acid deposits in joints via thoracic nerve inflammation) or brachial neuropathy (osteoarthritis--is DJD caused by inflammed nerve endings branching off the neck down the arms to the hands).

Hope that clears things some.

[swimmd99]

5
I treat cancer patients. Tends to make people more comfortable and prolong the inevitable in the terminal cases. I went to school with several "cured" by chiros. Though I believe there is severe nerve dysfunction in cancers there are also usually toxic catylists and poor nutrition and this needs to be addressed. I think chiro, detoxes, nutrition, good attitude, maybe medicine (chemo and rad should be last resorts) and certainly prayer are all valid.

I'm sorry but are you saying medical treatment for cancer should be a last resort? If so please provide the proof, not opinion, that treatment of cancer should be delayed to make sure someone has a good attitude first

[oziem]

I'm sorry but are you saying medical treatment for cancer should be a last resort? If so please provide the proof, not opinion, that treatment of cancer should be delayed to make sure someone has a good attitude first

I don't think I can provide proof, just as I don't see reliable data to endorse efficacy of such treatment.

This is my opinion on the matter and my interpretation of stats and others will certainly differ on this.
Treatment should be immediate but that the track record in my experience, having worked in radiation therapy is, look into what your options are. My observation having worked in a major cancer treating hospital was people who otherwise may have lived, actually died as a result of treatment not disease. People are herded into chemo or radiation without ever being aware that a clinic like Hoxey has a better record of helping folks than many "conventional" institutions.

What I should say is this: look into options. Something as potentially deadly as chemo should be more a last resort than first option. This is my opinion which I have gathered from experience and observation of the track record of success. I am not saying that chiropractors have all the answers here.

[oziem]

I'm sorry but are you saying medical treatment for cancer should be a last resort? If so please provide the proof, not opinion, that treatment of cancer should be delayed to make sure someone has a good attitude first

I should reiterate my comment said medical care is a consideration but chemo or rad therapy ought to be considered a last resort. I stand by that, and I think I could some MD's who would say the same.

Deepak Chopra, of whom I have no sympathy, became famous by recounting research of cancer patients who were given false hopes and false mortality predictions; all these medical "prophecies" were self-fulfilled. So attitude is important. Nedicine is important when used wisely and is more effective when people believe in it. I happen to have little "faith" in radiation and chemo therapy, having worked in such faclities and see the effects on my patients.
Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

[swimmd99]

I don't think I can provide proof, just as I don't see reliable data to endorse efficacy of such treatment.

This is my opinion on the matter and my interpretation of stats and others will certainly differ on this.
Treatment should be immediate but that the track record in my experience, having worked in radiation therapy is, look into what your options are. My observation having worked in a major cancer treating hospital was people who otherwise may have lived, actually died as a result of treatment not disease. People are herded into chemo or radiation without ever being aware that a clinic like Hoxey has a better record of helping folks than many "conventional" institutions.

What I should say is this: look into options. Something as potentially deadly as chemo should be more a last resort than first option. This is my opinion which I have gathered from experience and observation of the track record of success. I am not saying that chiropractors have all the answers here.

No offense, but its far outside of your scope to even be commenting on such things

"working in" a cancer hospital and working as an oncologist are not even close to similar

I'm not going to turn this into a pissing contest between DC and MD/DO. I will say though that as I was skimming through many of the pages here in this thread, you have several times given very dangerous advice that is far outside your scope of practice and education as a chiropractor. Some of those things are blatant borderline malpractice

I respect chiros, I went to one for intractable shoulder pain and for a problem with my lower back. The one I went to was great at what he did and focused a lot on active stretching. He knew I wouldn't let him come anywhere near doing cervical manipulation. I also have a real good friend who is a chiropractor and I have worked with several with sports.

It would be absurd for one to give advice about cancer or other disorders which your not educated to do

[oziem]

No offense, but its far outside of your scope to even be commenting on such things

"working in" a cancer hospital and working as an oncologist are not even close to similar

I'm not going to turn this into a pissing contest between DC and MD/DO. I will say though that as I was skimming through many of the pages here in this thread, you have several times given very dangerous advice that is far outside your scope of practice and education as a chiropractor. Some of those things are blatant borderline malpractice

I respect chiros, I went to one for intractable shoulder pain and for a problem with my lower back. The one I went to was great at what he did and focused a lot on active stretching. He knew I wouldn't let him come anywhere near doing cervical manipulation. I also have a real good friend who is a chiropractor and I have worked with several with sports.

It would be absurd for one to give advice about cancer or other disorders which your not educated to do

If you would like to help me edit any posts you find improper I would be glad to work with you on that.

[swimmd99]

Somehow the PPO's have skirted the illegal practice of forcing folks to seek referrals for doctors who have portal of entry rights (Chiros, Naturopaths etc.)
DC's have more radiology time (unless an MD goes into rad as specialty) we have more health science time except gyn less diagnosis and pharm (of course). All in all Chiros have a few hundred hours more study than MD and then there is the need for extra adjusting training for those that wich to focus on a method of expertise.
The animosity though lessening overall is lingering from early AMA hostility to all other health professions. The chiros fought the AMA the most bitterly taking the AMA to court and winning an anti trust lawsuit.
These days MD's refer to chiros and chiros t MD's. It's getting better in the relationship.
However, chiros are more and more doing less chiropractic and are blending in more with MD's. This conformity may create peace but if the chiros lose the application and idea of adjusting subluxations it will be a great loss to everyone.

Nah nah nah this needs to be corrected. You receive more anatomy time. We receive far more biochem, physio, histology, pathology, pharm, genetics, etc etc etc. We receive more clinical expereience as well. I'm not sure about the radiology but you receive more time in XRAYS, and possibly joints but nowhere near as much time in the entire rest of the radiology field

Now, here's the major difference. After 2 years of basic sciences, 2 years of clinicals.....what do MD/DO's do? 3-5 years of supervised residency training. Chiros don't do that. The clinical time is not even close between the two dude

Also you're giving the impression that chiros are becoming a third fully licensed healthcare provider along with MD/DO.....which is far from true. Chiro schools have been forced to become more evidence based to gain respect in the medical community. However, even though some insurance companies now allow limited care to be provided they are not and should not be viewed as a third fully licensed healthcare provider.

Again, I work with chiros. I also thought about chiro school for a while so I know plenty about the scope of practice. I respect the field and DCs when they treat within their scope of practice but offering advice outside of that scope is dangerous and unprofessional

Also, as I was reading through this thread I came across several other docs I know on here that post frequently. They asked questions to prove points to themself that you were answering questions outside of your scope and never indicated that they did that. Every single time we answer questions we follow it up with something along the lines of "can not diagnose via the internet and need a proper history and physical exam by your PCP". This removes the potential for us misunderstanding something online. We do that, yet you have clearly diagnosed online and offered dangerous and harmful advice. In all honesty, if someone on this forum read some of those posts (all of which i won't point out bc a chiro shouldnt be offering that advice anyways and people should know that) had harm become to them because of some of that advice, I would feel comfortable testifying on their behalf that they received completely wrong information in the thread. I would be very careful where you're treading

[oziem]

Nah nah nah this needs to be corrected. You receive more anatomy time. We receive far more biochem, physio, histology, pathology, pharm, genetics, etc etc etc. We receive more clinical expereience as well. I'm not sure about the radiology but you receive more time in XRAYS, and possibly joints but nowhere near as much time in the entire rest of the radiology field

Now, here's the major difference. After 2 years of basic sciences, 2 years of clinicals.....what do MD/DO's do? 3-5 years of supervised residency training. Chiros don't do that. The clinical time is not even close between the two dude

Also you're giving the impression that chiros are becoming a third fully licensed healthcare provider along with MD/DO.....which is far from true. Chiro schools have been forced to become more evidence based to gain respect in the medical community. However, even though some insurance companies now allow limited care to be provided they are not and should not be viewed as a third fully licensed healthcare provider.

Again, I work with chiros. I also thought about chiro school for a while so I know plenty about the scope of practice. I respect the field and DCs when they treat within their scope of practice but offering advice outside of that scope is dangerous and unprofessional

Also, as I was reading through this thread I came across several other docs I know on here that post frequently. They asked questions to prove points to themself that you were answering questions outside of your scope and never indicated that they did that. Every single time we answer questions we follow it up with something along the lines of "can not diagnose via the internet and need a proper history and physical exam by your PCP". This removes the potential for us misunderstanding something online. We do that, yet you have clearly diagnosed online and offered dangerous and harmful advice. In all honesty, if someone on this forum read some of those posts (all of which i won't point out bc a chiro shouldnt be offering that advice anyways and people should know that) had harm become to them because of some of that advice, I would feel comfortable testifying on their behalf that they received completely wrong information in the thread. I would be very careful where you're treading

Doc,
I agree with your facts on education. I thought I gave information in line with what you were saying.
I am unclear as to why you would accuse me.
There is an entire forum here of lay people diagnosing injury and giving opinion based treatment plans. Are they qualified?
I am doing my best to just give an ask the doctor chat on subluxations and gym injuries. I am urging folks to see a qualified professional.
Many folks here feel they have been helped in some way.
If you would like to help me in some way to assist the folks I would welcome that. If you or the mods feel in some way this thread is not useful we could discontinue if that is the best interests of those concerned. I am not here to offend or hurt anyone just help.

[swimmd99]

Doc,
I agree with your facts on education. I thought I gave information in line with what you were saying.
I am unclear as to why you would accuse me.
There is an entire forum here of lay people diagnosing injury and giving opinion based treatment plans. Are they qualified?
I am doing my best to just give an ask the doctor chat on subluxations and gym injuries. I am urging folks to see a qualified professional.
Many folks here feel they have been helped in some way.
If you would like to help me in some way to assist the folks I would welcome that. If you or the mods feel in some way this thread is not useful we could discontinue if that is the best interests of those concerned. I am not here to offend or hurt anyone just help.

I'm not out to try and discredit chiro and like I said I have made referrals for pt's as well as sought the care for myself. I am not accusing but i think any and all misrepresentation needs to be eliminated.
Again, i respect your field but just as I would not ask a radiologist to be my primary care provider, you should really be careful about giving medical advice that is far outside your scope of practice. I'm really not trying to be rude or malignant at you but I have genuine concern for all the posters' safety and well being
Currently, I mainly reside in the misc section and help out with many of the medical questions there. I think it is a huge benefit to have practitioners from different backgrounds commenting and collaborating. I really see my benefit within that section, especially since nowadays with the litigous society we live in to keep myself out from a forum devoted to giving medical advice.
Again, its just a complete genuine concern of mine for everyone's safety. Without even asking the other MD/DO's or med students i know frequent the forums, I know most of their opinions would be similar, if not exactly the same as mine. It's not that I necessarily want to see the thread closed down because quite honestly you guys rock for a lot of joint issues but it really needs to be kept completely within scope

also, I contribute heavily to certain medical forums and no one there gives medical advice because it is inappropriate to really do so online and opens up the door to dangerous misinterpretation based on not having the pt right directly in front of you

[oziem]

I'm not out to try and discredit chiro and like I said I have made referrals for pt's as well as sought the care for myself. I am not accusing but i think any and all misrepresentation needs to be eliminated.
Again, i respect your field but just as I would not ask a radiologist to be my primary care provider, you should really be careful about giving medical advice that is far outside your scope of practice. I'm really not trying to be rude or malignant at you but I have genuine concern for all the posters' safety and well being
Currently, I mainly reside in the misc section and help out with many of the medical questions there. I think it is a huge benefit to have practitioners from different backgrounds commenting and collaborating. I really see my benefit within that section, especially since nowadays with the litigous society we live in to keep myself out from a forum devoted to giving medical advice.
Again, its just a complete genuine concern of mine for everyone's safety. Without even asking the other MD/DO's or med students i know frequent the forums, I know most of their opinions would be similar, if not exactly the same as mine. It's not that I necessarily want to see the thread closed down because quite honestly you guys rock for a lot of joint issues but it really needs to be kept completely within scope

also, I contribute heavily to certain medical forums and no one there gives medical advice because it is inappropriate to really do so online and opens up the door to dangerous misinterpretation based on not having the pt right directly in front of you

My fellow,
I will check your threads in the misc to get some idea of how you prefer to handle questions.
I share your concern for the well being of the inquirers and welcome your assistance in helping me clarify, and deal with questions as properly as possible.

Thanks

[FearOwnReproach]

Oziem, the clicking is really throughout my entire outer/rear deltoid of my shoulder. I think it's from doing shoulder raises with 90 degree arms bent.

Can an adjustment fix clicky/tight shoulders in general? My SC is fine.

[oziem]

Oziem, the clicking is really throughout my entire outer/rear deltoid of my shoulder. I think it's from doing shoulder raises with 90 degree arms bent.

Can an adjustment fix clicky/tight shoulders in general? My SC is fine.

You can only know if you go see a DC in person and find out if one is needed and if it is successful.

[collosus2007]

Hey I injured my knee playing football about 3 years ago and it still isnt at 100% and I was wondering if anyone has any insite on what I can do to get it to 100%