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  1. #1
    Registered User Rolling_Rock's Avatar
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    Thinking about a 1 AD/4 AD cycle. Yes, I searched :)

    I'm thinking about doing a 1 AD/4 AD cycle over the up-coming winter break (college blows). I'll be 22 in March and have been training hard for 15 months now. I've put on about 10-12 lbs and my body fat has dropped from 13% down to 6%. Right now I'm at 145lbs The sad part is that I don't do any cardio, my matabolism is just through the damn roof. I've made great improvements in strength. A few weeks ago I finally broke the 200# mark on bench and I squat 200# for sets now.

    I eat pretty well and train 4 days a week. I use N-LargeII after my workouts. I don't drink it on off days cause if I use it that often it starts to raise hell on my colon

    Mon - Chest, Bis
    Tues - Back - Tris
    Wed - Ju-Jitsu at night, no lifting
    Thur - Legs
    Fri - Shoulders

    My main question concerns PCT (post cycle therapy) Obviously I would like to minimize the side affects and retain as much of my gains as possible. From what I've read many people like ErgoPharm products. I know that they make both 1-AD and 4-AD. Is this a good Co. to buy from? Who should I get the 6oxo from?

    60x0 seems to be one of the top choices for PCT.

    From what I have gathered what I have below would be a good place to start:

    4-6 week cycle

    1-AD, 300mg/ day- 3 100mg doses
    4-AD, 900mg/ day- 3 300mg doses


    Post Cycle

    Week 1
    6oxo 200mg 3 times daily

    Week 2-3
    6oxo 200mg 2 times daily

    Week 4
    6oxo 100mg 3 times daily

    Am I missing anything for PCT? I've heard ZMA mentioned but haven't been able to find much info about it.

    I know this site if full of lots of good info, Thanks in advance for the help
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  2. #2
    Senior Member MJSbossman's Avatar
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    That's perfect...

    6 oxo is from Ergopharm too...

    And it would be wise to get a hold of some nolva in case gyno breaks out...

    And 300mg of 1ad is on the safe side, if you wanted you could take a little more.

    Other than that, looks like you've got a decent plan.
    19 years old, 6', 210lbs (11%bf)
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  3. #3
    Masters At Work heavymetal's Avatar
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  4. #4
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    Originally posted by MJSbossman
    That's perfect...

    6 oxo is from Ergopharm too...

    And it would be wise to get a hold of some nolva in case gyno breaks out...

    And 300mg of 1ad is on the safe side, if you wanted you could take a little more.

    Other than that, looks like you've got a decent plan.
    bump but i would take the 6oxo as it is in the sticky thats how the tests were done and the way i have always done it...

    6OXO
    6oxo is an aromatize inhibitor sold by Ergopharm. It is the best over the counter anti-estrogen available for post cycle use.
    Week 1 – 600mg daily in two divided doses, morning and night
    Week 2-3 – 400mg daily
    Week 4 – 300mg daily
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  5. #5
    Registered User NO MERCY's Avatar
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    Looks good.

    Like scott said I would take the 6oxo in two divided doses or all at once before bed.

    In my opinion I do not think you need prohormones right now seeing that you only have been working out 15mths. How tall are you?
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  6. #6
    Monster in the making olly281's Avatar
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    Everything looks pretty good.. Im not expert but ive been searching around on info on these too as well.

    just another question. How much protein are you eating a day? How many times do you eat in a day?

    Have you tried any other supplements?? IE whey protein, creatine, stuff like that???

    Bump to how tall you are? You should be able to get higher then 145lbs naturally before moving on to PH's.. Just a suggestion. Im no mom so I cant tell you what to do.. haha just kidding..

    Also if its your first cycle I would start off with the 300mg of 1AD then after like 2 weeks bump it up if no/slim gains are made.. It takes a little while to kick in.

    Another note.. I have my PH's with me now but am waiting a while yet to take them. I have the ergopharm 1AD and the transdermal 4ad. I will be starting at 300mg of 1AD to start just for another opinion.
    Ryan
    age 22
    6'1''
    status cutting
    Bulked-oct 24 184lbs (start)
    Feb 20 205lbs end
    Cutting- current 200lbs
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  7. #7
    LittleMonster min's Avatar
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    All this sounds good,but some articles I read say that you could take 600+600 whoke 6wks.
    There is article by Big Cat & Dino Paul Pierce on it.Read them.
    I'm thinking about same cycle also,but I'm still gathering info on it.

    I'm 5'11" 172lb.
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  8. #8
    Registered User NO MERCY's Avatar
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    Originally posted by min
    All this sounds good,but some articles I read say that you could take 600+600 whoke 6wks.
    There is article by Big Cat & Dino Paul Pierce on it.Read them.
    I'm thinking about same cycle also,but I'm still gathering info on it.

    I'm 5'11" 172lb.
    True Big cats articles are great and he does recommend 600mgs. Just keep in mind some of the info on those articles are outdated.
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  9. #9
    ThemoLife Alter Ego SupaNatural's Avatar
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    Originally posted by NO MERCY

    In my opinion I do not think you need prohormones right now seeing that you only have been working out 15mths. How tall are you?
    My opinion exactly. I'd suggest upping the cals week by week until the point where you notice you put on more fat than muscle. Also try changing your routine, something like combination of a push/pull/lower body split.
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  10. #10
    Registered User Rolling_Rock's Avatar
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    For those of you who asked I'm 5'10"

    I am gaining weight but it's awfully slow going. I usually eat 4 times a day. I'd like to eat more often but with class and work it's tough to always have something good to eat on hand. Sometimes I try to keep a box of protien bars in the car or something, but that gets pricey.

    About upping the calories till I put too much fat on...That doesn't seem to happen. I have to eat so much for that to happen that I always feel stuffed and lathargic. I eat plenty but I don't gorge myself. I try to take in at least 3k cal a day.
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  11. #11
    ThemoLife Alter Ego SupaNatural's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rolling_Rock
    I am gaining weight but it's awfully slow going. I usually eat 4 times a day. I'd like to eat more often but with class and work it's tough to always have something good to eat on hand.

    About upping the calories till I put too much fat on...That doesn't seem to happen. I have to eat so much for that to happen that I always feel stuffed and lathargic. I eat plenty but I don't gorge myself. I try to take in at least 3k cal a day.
    Try graduating up to 4. If you have a shaker cup, sm/med sized storage containers and access to water you have what it takes to fit something in between. Put powder/carb(ground oats and/or flax seeds do well) in container, dump in cup when ready add water... voila!
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  12. #12
    Registered User NO MERCY's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rolling_Rock
    For those of you who asked I'm 5'10"

    I am gaining weight but it's awfully slow going. I usually eat 4 times a day. I'd like to eat more often but with class and work it's tough to always have something good to eat on hand. Sometimes I try to keep a box of protien bars in the car or something, but that gets pricey.

    About upping the calories till I put too much fat on...That doesn't seem to happen. I have to eat so much for that to happen that I always feel stuffed and lathargic. I eat plenty but I don't gorge myself. I try to take in at least 3k cal a day.

    You have put on about 10-12 lbs and your body fat has dropped from 13% down to 6% in 15 months. That is pretty impressive. I would say just keep what your doing and maybe add some whey protein, swole v2, and a multi if you are not taking those at this time.
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  13. #13
    Registered User Rolling_Rock's Avatar
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    Originally posted by NO MERCY
    You have put on about 10-12 lbs and your body fat has dropped from 13% down to 6% in 15 months. That is pretty impressive. I would say just keep what your doing and maybe add some whey protein, swole v2, and a multi if you are not taking those at this time.
    I get lots of protien from the N-Large (40g IIRC). I'll look into the Swole V2 and a multi though. What do you guys recomend for a good multi for helping with growth? This may be the route for me to go.

    The more I look into the PHs the more I think "Damn, this is expensive." I've got tuition coming up to pay for and then $3k for skills next summer, gotta start saving.
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  14. #14
    Registered User NO MERCY's Avatar
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    Rolling Rock I would drop the n2large and make your own weight gainer. Less sugar in the homemade gainer. There are many recipes on the board. I hear GNC MEGA MAN is a good multi. I also have a thread on swole v2 over in the product review section if you interested.
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  15. #15
    Registered User Rolling_Rock's Avatar
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    Originally posted by NO MERCY
    Rolling Rock I would drop the n2large and make your own weight gainer. Less sugar in the homemade gainer. There are many recipes on the board. I hear GNC MEGA MAN is a good multi. I also have a thread on swole v2 over in the product review section if you interested.
    Cool, thanks for the info. I wish I had the time to make my own gainer right now but it seems like I come home to sleep and thats about it. Hopefully in the future once schools done and I'm settled down I can start creating my own stuff.

    Thanks for the suggestion on the vitamins too. I'm gonna check them out, along with your thread on V02.
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  16. #16
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    145 pounds. What the Hell are you doing with PH's!! This **** pisses me off. Get bigger naturally, (over 200lbs) before starting a cycle. Don't just puss out and start using PH's right away. Sure you did your research but you only have been training for 1 year and 3 months, not long enough to get big naturally. Man, put the time into bodybuilding and your gains will come!
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    ThemoLife Alter Ego SupaNatural's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rolling_Rock
    Cool, thanks for the info. I wish I had the time to make my own gainer right now but it seems like I come home to sleep and thats about it. Hopefully in the future once schools done and I'm settled down I can start creating my own stuff.
    Some recipes take less than five minutes to prepare. A great investment in preventing decreased insulin sensitivity.
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  18. #18
    Registered User Rolling_Rock's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Manic
    145 pounds. What the Hell are you doing with PH's!! This **** pisses me off. Get bigger naturally, (over 200lbs) before starting a cycle. Don't just puss out and start using PH's right away. Sure you did your research but you only have been training for 1 year and 3 months, not long enough to get big naturally. Man, put the time into bodybuilding and your gains will come!
    200lbs, that's funny. I don't think I'd ever hit 200lbs unless I started shooting up every steriod known to man. I probably have some of the worst genetics possible as far as putting size on is concerned.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member MJSbossman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rolling_Rock
    200lbs, that's funny. I don't think I'd ever hit 200lbs unless I started shooting up every steriod known to man. I probably have some of the worst genetics possible as far as putting size on is concerned.
    Steroids are useless if you don't eat enough.

    If you can't gain weight naturally...eat more. You might gain some fat weight, but you'll gain muscle too.
    19 years old, 6', 210lbs (11%bf)
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  20. #20
    Registered User GentlemanE's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rolling_Rock
    Cool, thanks for the info. I wish I had the time to make my own gainer right now but it seems like I come home to sleep and thats about it. Hopefully in the future once schools done and I'm settled down I can start creating my own stuff.

    Thanks for the suggestion on the vitamins too. I'm gonna check them out, along with your thread on V02.


    For a really quick weight gainer, take 1 cup of oats and grind it up in a coffee grinder to a fine powder. Mix it with 2 scoops of your favorite protein powder.

    It takes about 1 minute to grind the oats, and you really dont have to clean the coffee grinder very often.

    Total cost is around $0.75 I think. It works out to around 45g of protein, and around 520 calories with water, 650+ with milk.

    I wake up to one of those, and also drink one before bed.

    It makes a huge difference for someone who doesn't eat enough.

    If you want to get bigger, you're going to have to seriously commit to taking in more calories. If you want to get the most out of a PH cycle, you have to be taking in an excess of calories. The last thing you want to do is take a PH and subject yourself to all the side effects, without getting the maximum growth out of it.
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  21. #21
    Registered User Paddrias's Avatar
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    Originally posted by GentlemanE
    If you want to get the most out of a PH cycle, you have to be taking in an excess of calories. The last thing you want to do is take a PH and subject yourself to all the side effects, without getting the maximum growth out of it.
    I think that's good advice. I know it's frustrating if you feel you're a 'hard gainer' but you're still young, and I think you should be looking at a six-month eat and grow program before you look at PH again. Try to eat 5-6 times a day. Or at least add the home-made weight-gainer as suggested last thing at night. Even if you just add a 200ml protein drink to each meal, it will boost your protein intake considerably without leaving you feeling bloated.

    You could easily pack on another 24lbs over 12 months if you commit to it. You just have to eat even when you're not hungry

    I went from 161lbs to 182lbs without even knowing what a PH was, and I'm 15 years older than you. Wish I was 22 again, sigh... Stick at it. If you're still set on using PH, you've come to the right place for advice, of course
    Last edited by Paddrias; 12-05-2003 at 05:48 AM.
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  22. #22
    Registered User Rolling_Rock's Avatar
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    Thanks, You guys are the best
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