Back to the Basics (EVRY1 READ!!!)

**slyfox115** · 11-26-2003, 09:18 PM

I have been doing keto for 2 and a half weeks now. I have tried the low fat diet too. With either diet i dont gain ne strength. Now i know that i am not supposed to and that brings me to my dilemma. Have any of you guys that have had 15-20% BF just done cardio religiously to lose bodyfat?.....and had results? I know i will have better results with a cutting diet and doing cardio but on this keto diet i barely get through my workout....and i have basically copied to diet samples on c-k-d.com so i know im doing it right. I am a senior in high school and have track to think about so i have decided to eat as clean as i can but not have such a strict diet. My friend i lift with has a lower percent body fat (bout 8%) and lifts as much as i do. He is gaining strength as i am not. I just want to get back to the basics of being insane in the gym....kinda how it was when i started. I want to start gaining strenght at a steady pace, gain that intensity i used to have, and lose ne bodyfat i can without dieting. Is this possible? HAVE ANY OF YOU LOST NOTICABLE AMOUNTS OF BODYFAT WHILE JUST DOING CARDIO? Please guys this has been on my mind forever now and i know that you guys will provide some answers.

**BuggerOff** · 11-27-2003, 12:18 AM

Doing heaps of cardio is gonna eat away at your muscle gains anyway.

Just bite the bullet and loose the fat. Then you can go nuts and really bulk up. Trust me, if you're fairly new to weightlifting and you bulk properly on a high protein, high calorie diet, you'll get results so good people will think you've been juicing. These quick gains will only be made even better if you do them straight off a fat-loss cycle where you haven't been concentrating on weight lifting as you're body will be that of a refreshed beginner's body once more instead of a semi-conditioned lifter.

But you've got to let go of that bodyfat first. You're mate is sitting-pretty 'cause he's on 8% bodyfat, but don't worry about what he's doing. Don't compare yourself to others, you'll always come out second best, it's human nature. Forget trying to keep up with him. You can catch-up and overtake later if you really need to compete with your mates, but not now.

Just go hard, let go of the bodyweight. In the long run it's only a teeny little time and will make all the difference maybe for the rest of your life. If it's been "on your mind forever" like you say, just imagine how good it would have been in you cut down when you started to worry about this! You'd be ripped now and ready to bulk big-time. Loose the fat first mate, you won't regret it.

BTW, I really do not recommend keto diets. True, I've never done one and don't know much about them, but the whole concept has alarm bells ringing in my head. That's just me personally. I know pro-bodybuilders have had great success with this for decades.

How old are you, how much do you weigh and what's your BF%?

**as0l0** · 11-27-2003, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by BuggerOff
BTW, I really do not recommend keto diets. True, I've never done one and don't know much about them,

good to see an informed opinion...*sic*

**TheSupaKorean** · 11-27-2003, 04:57 AM

Did keto for 4 weeks and had good results on fat loss but I have to admit it just wasn't for me. I felt tired at the gym + class which is not a good combo for a college student.

If you create a calorie deficit your going to lose fat by doing a ton of cardio but you do run the risk of losing more muscle than if you kept track of your kcals.

Sounds like you want the end result without putting effort into the diet.

**BuggerOff** · 11-27-2003, 05:12 AM

as010,

I was very careful in how I worded that, so just gimme a break, okay? I can only say what I feel, and my feeling is it couldn't be good for you.

**slyfox115** · 11-27-2003, 10:12 AM

I also will add that i hit the iron 5 days a week. I have about 12% bf. You can see my abs. I was just trying to get super ripped but in the long run i know that i couldnt maintain that so that is why i am thinkin of this.

**as0l0** · 11-27-2003, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by BuggerOff
as010,

I was very careful in how I worded that, so just gimme a break, okay? I can only say what I feel, and my feeling is it couldn't be good for you.

you should try and learn more about it......

**Canadian_AF** · 11-27-2003, 01:27 PM

I beg to differ with ANYONE who says doing cardio eats away at your muscle, unless you aren't eating, or your training for a marathon, doing 30-45 minutes of cardio a day, is not going to cause massive losses in muscle, When I train I always try to do at least 30 minutes of cardio a day, at 75% intensity, and I'VE NEVER lost any noticable muscle mass.

That being said I suppose if your genetics have your BF at 5-10% without doing ANY cardio, yes your metabolism is probably rocket high, and yes, in that case you *might* lose muscle mass.

Personally, Cardio is a staple of my workouts, it provides me with a great pump, and yes I still gain muscle while doing cardio everyday.

Keto is debatable.. Personally I don't consider myself on a Keto diet, I don't diet period.. I watch what I eat, and eat 5-6 meals a day including protein and mrp supplementation.

Basic meal for me, is a palmed size serving of vegetables, and an equal amount of protein, fish, chicken, salmon, (occasionally beef/pork), the rest of my nutrition is through MRP's and protein whey (fat takes care of itself, if your really worried about your omega's take flax seed oil.)

Slyfox.. I recommend you weight train 3 days a week instead of 5, I used to train 5 as well, and found I grew substantially more training only 3 times a week, you have to give your muscles time to build. For example I used to train chest one day.. then say biceps/triceps the next, Problem? Well, most chest exercises are compound upper body movements, and your also working your tri's/bi's, therefore your muscles aren't being given enough time to recover, remember you don't build muscle at the gym, you build muscle AFTER the gym.

Also, if you are really worried about losing muscle mass, take 5g's of glutamine before/after your cardio, it works well.

Good Luck bro

Cheers

**musclemidget** · 11-27-2003, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by as0l0
you should try and learn more about it......

yeah, most people area anti-keto until they try it right as0lo!!! haha, the day is mine!

**as0l0** · 11-27-2003, 06:35 PM

*cry*

**mister_geeman** · 11-27-2003, 07:18 PM

I find it strange that people who know nothing about keto and who have never tried it and have never studied the theory - continue to knock it??? WHY
I was not a huge fan of it myself until I saw the results of what someone ahieved. Now, cutting carbs is hardcore (hence why some people may decide its all too hard) but in order to make an informed opinion - DO THE RESEACRH.
Having said I am not a huge fan - (yes....you knew it was coming) I am currently following the BodyOpus diet and am having GREAT success with it. I have continued to loose 1 and 1/2 pounds [per week while increasing strength for the least 4 weeks. This diet is not for the faint hearted or the novice (and I am no expert) but results are likely if you follow some guidelines.
In a very simple explanation (where I tried to explain why I was cutting carbs to my wife) it was simple - if you need carbs to bulk - what will cutting them out do? Now this isn't the most detailed or credible scientific explanation - but it was quick and one which my wife understood.

My advice would be to keep an open mind.

Cheers
G

**BuggerOff** · 11-27-2003, 07:30 PM

You're being a tad hypocritical aren't you? It's okay for you to say you're not a fan, but not me. I too conceded that people have had great results from it.

But results are only part of the journey. All I said was is that it's my personal hunch that it's not a very healthy method.

Ketosis is medicly defined as "A pathological increase in the production of ketone bodies".

"Pathological" means "relating to disease or a disease state".

"Ketones" are "any of a class of organic compounds having a carbonyl group linked to a carbon atom in each of two hydrocarbon radicals. In general the ketones are colorless volatile liquids having a pungent ethereal odor"

Now excuse me if I have a personal opinion on the matter. I'm not forcing my opinion down anyone's throat, I'm just stating that in my opinion, voluntarily raising of your ketone levels to a pathalogical state is not an ideal method of weight loss.

I maybe wrong.

**mister_geeman** · 11-27-2003, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by BuggerOff
You're being a tad hypocritical aren't you? It's okay for you to say you're not a fan, but not me. I too conceded that people have had great results from it.

But results are only part of the journey. All I said was is that it's my personal hunch that it's not a very healthy method.

Ketosis is medicly defined as "A pathological increase in the production of ketone bodies".

"Pathological" means "relating to disease or a disease state".

"Ketones" are "any of a class of organic compounds having a carbonyl group linked to a carbon atom in each of two hydrocarbon radicals. In general the ketones are colorless volatile liquids having a pungent ethereal odor"

Now excuse me if I have a personal opinion on the matter. I'm not forcing my opinion down anyone's throat, I'm just stating that in my opinion, voluntarily raising of your ketone levels to a pathalogical state is not an ideal method of weight loss.

I maybe wrong.

Just expressing an opinion, just like you

.

**as0l0** · 11-27-2003, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by BuggerOff
All I said was is that it's my personal hunch that it's not a very healthy method.

i think you said a bit more than that, but anyway, I'd rather drop it.

**BuggerOff** · 11-27-2003, 07:49 PM

I'd rather not. You should finish what you started or concede that you were wrong.

"BTW, I really do not recommend keto diets. True, I've never done one and don't know much about them, but the whole concept has alarm bells ringing in my head. That's just me personally. I know pro-bodybuilders have had great success with this for decades."

That was the very first thing I said. To me, that sounds pretty innocent. And I think it can be very acurately summarised by, "That's just my personal hunch".

**Dr Bill** · 11-27-2003, 09:08 PM

I lost a few pounds doing cardio...

-Bill

**as0l0** · 11-27-2003, 09:22 PM

that's right, that's what you said.

you then went on to say that all you said was that "it's my personal hunch that it's not a very healthy method"

but the fact is you also said that you "really do not recommend keto diets"

**BuggerOff** · 11-27-2003, 11:10 PM

Well nobody has to take up my recommendation, do they? But just out of curiosity, why bother with a keto diet in the first place? Why not use a regular diet, which works just great?

**as0l0** · 11-27-2003, 11:28 PM

it's more suitable for some people and for others it's the only option.

**BuggerOff** · 11-27-2003, 11:40 PM

What's wrong with the option of just eating less calories than you use without going into a voluntary state of ketosis?

**as0l0** · 11-27-2003, 11:50 PM

because the number of calories you burn is a variable number, decided by your body, not by your calculator.

**Canadian_AF** · 11-28-2003, 06:03 AM

Guys/Gals, just so this post doesn't drag on and on....

There is a Keto thread, please check the stickies, it's the bottom one made by Chi_Town, if you are considering Keto, or would like to debate it, please discuss it under this section of the board.

Thanks.

**user34566548717114** · 11-28-2003, 08:00 AM

how many high preformance atheletes you see on keto diets??????

Thats all i am gonna say

**TheSupaKorean** · 11-28-2003, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by dvv
how many high preformance atheletes you see on keto diets??????

Thats all i am gonna say

Ouch :/

**musclemidget** · 11-28-2003, 09:29 AM

im not sure if youre downing keto, but many NFL lineman do keto-type diets to make their weight limit and ive seen several bios of NBA stars where they say they try to avoid carbs.

**as0l0** · 11-28-2003, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by Canadian_AF
if you are considering Keto, or would like to debate it, please discuss it under this section of the board.

*bump* ...

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