What Is The Best Non-hormonal Supplement

[ee09]

I'VE TRIED V-12(GOOD RESULTS),NOX2(MINIMAL RESULTS), AND I ALWAYS TAKE PROTEIN,IS THERE ANY BETTER SUPPLEMENT ANY HAS TAKEN OR WOULD RECOMEND OR ANY VARIETY THAT WORKS WELL TOGETHER.

[Lonny]

Originally posted by jer4011
I'VE TRIED V-12(GOOD RESULTS),NOX2(MINIMAL RESULTS), AND I ALWAYS TAKE PROTEIN,IS THERE ANY BETTER SUPPLEMENT ANY HAS TAKEN OR WOULD RECOMEND OR ANY VARIETY THAT WORKS WELL TOGETHER.

The best non-hormonal supplements would probably be

Blended protein
Creatine
E/C. or C/Y
R-ALA

[Cogar]

You can also consider RiboForce HP by EAS. It is a combination of effervescent Creatine, Ribose, and Taurine.

[str8flexed]

Originally posted by Cogar
You can also consider RiboForce HP by EAS. It is a combination of effervescent Creatine, Ribose, and Taurine.

lol

[Kraftydog]

basics
whey protien isolate(factory or customizer, but I prefer bi-pro)
micellar casein(same)
r-ala (I prefer glucorellr)
ginger root (digestion of all that protein, any brand is fine)
Glutamine peptides(if they get them to taste better)

for prework stims or as fatburners
EC (strongest CNS and clean- see signature)
CLEN (though it only seems to work good a couple of times)
NYC (though this makes me feel not right)
Thermorexin (better for cardio type exercise)

[Jedi Master]

You may want to try ICE by xtreme formulations. It is top notch.

[Cogar]

Originally posted by str8flexed
lol

So what are you laughing at, the creatine, ribose, or taurine?

[Lonny]

Originally posted by Cogar
So what are you laughing at, the creatine, ribose, or taurine?

The supplement in general i would think.

Its not exactly a top notch product. I would think regular creatine would be just as effective, and taurine is dirt cheap. Despite the high price of ribose, i have yet to read many good reviews on its effectiveness.

A better option would be to make your own, or try a next generation creatine formula like swole, or v-12.

[Cogar]

Originally posted by Lonny
The supplement in general i would think.

Its not exactly a top notch product. I would think regular creatine would be just as effective, and taurine is dirt cheap. Despite the high price of ribose, i have yet to read many good reviews on its effectiveness.

A better option would be to make your own, or try a next generation creatine formula like swole, or v-12.

Fair enough. Let me add that I tried to make my own using micronized creatine and ribose. I added dextrose to help delivery by creating an insulin spike. My personal experience was that it did not provide the recovery or performance of the EAS product. Ironically, the sum of the ingredients I used ended up costing more than RiboForce did. To me it was an easy choice. Still, I understand how people have favorite supplements, so they can make the choice they want.

[dito]

Originally posted by Jedi Master
You may want to try ICE by xtreme formulations. It is top notch.

I agree on this.

[SyNeRgY]

Whole foods.

Ohhh.. supplement... Whey, ICE, multi, Swole, r-ALA

[ee09]

what exactly does ice or r-ala do for you?

[musclemidget]

Originally posted by SyNeRgY
Whole foods.

beat me to it.

[Jedi Master]

Originally posted by jer4011
what exactly does ice or r-ala do for you?

Do a search on ICE you will tons of positive feed back. Also do a search on liver tabs, you will like those also.

[dito]

Originally posted by Jedi Master
Do a search on ICE you will tons of positive feed back. Also do a search on liver tabs, you will like those also.

There is no need for liver tabs when one is taking ICE.

[Jedi Master]

Originally posted by dito
There is no need for liver tabs when one is taking ICE.

I only take ICE on days I train. I take 4-6 liver tabs with every meal I eat.

Liver tabs work differnt than just BCAA's, although they do contain a nice amount of BCAA"s.

here read this..

Liver Tablets

ULTRA 40 - The ULTIMATE liver tablet designed for the hard-training athlete who demands NOTHING BUT THE BEST! Although Ultra 40 retains the biochemical spirit of the original, it's nutritional value is 45 times greater than that of whole beef liver. All of the essential amino acids are present in Ultra 40 as well as B-vitamins, iron, naturally occurring minerals and enzymes. The absolute superior amino acid tablet on the market today!
WHY ULTRA 40?
All of us have gotten carried away at one time or another, trying to find that one magical or secret supplement that will give us the incredible muscle and strength gains we're more than willing to work hard to achieve, but just don't seem to come quick enough. Some of the newer supplements on the market (creatine being the best example) do work incredibly well for many people. However, for continued gains one must stick with the basics of good bodybuilding nutrition. For more than four decades, desiccated liver tablets have been a mainstay of good bodybuilding nutrition. If we could turn the bodybuilding clock back a few decades, we would be able to clearly see how liver came into prominence as a sports nutrition supplement. Stories from some of the old timers telling of phenomenal gains being made on 100 plus liver tablets a day are very common. (These were 7.5 or 10 grain tablets. Taking 25-30 ULTRA 40 tablets per day would equate to this amount due to the higher potency now available.) Strength, size, and endurance increases are always reported when an individual gets on a good quality desiccated liver supplement.

WHAT IS ULTRA 40?
ULTRA 40 liver tablets are one of the most potent training aids for the bodybuilder. The formula is an extract which contains only trace amounts of fat and cholesterol, but forty-five times the nutritional value of whole beef liver, yet with all the nutrients and enzymes of raw liver. ULTRA 40 has more going for it than any other food supplement being very high in useable bodybuilding protein (2 grams per tablet) of the highest quality (it contains all the essential amino acids). It's a strong blood builder supplying heme iron. It is a very rich source of B vitamins, especially riboflavin, niacin, B-12, and the lipotropics choline and inositol. It's a good source of vitamins A, C, and D and other micro-nutrients. In addition to these known nutrients, there are substances present in liver shown to have a beneficial effect on health, fitness, and endurance such as cytochrome P-450 and others yet to be identified. According to Vince Gironda, the "Iron Guru", desiccated liver contains nucleic acids for proper amino acid utilization, a growth factor and an anti-estrogen factor, which keeps testosterone levels high, and it is also a great anti-toxin.

[Jedi Master]

Dessicated liver is equal to many times its weight in RAW liver, containing enzymes and b complex vitamins that are destroyed in the cooking process. There are more anabolic nutritional factors in liver tabs than any other food or protein supplement, or any multivitamin. Besides a superb amino acid balance, this is one of the best sources of "B-complex" vitamins. Only brewer's yeast has an equivalent B-complex ratio. B-12 is hard for the body to assimilate, and liver is one of the best sources for easily assimilated B-12, and synergistic heme-iron. Also a good source of Co-Q-10, many scarce trace minerals, including copper, zinc, and iron, and also antifatigue P-450 enzymes, lipotropic, and other growth factors, even an anti-estrogen factor.

I always saw a marked increase in endurance and stamina with the old dessicated liver powder years ago. Liver has fallen out of vogue with today's "it has to taste good" mentality. But the old timers like Larry Scott, and Frank Zane, who were Mr. Olympia before the insane steroid use of the modern competitors like Ronnie and Jay, took 100 or more liver tabs daily, and considered them essential. I used to dump heaping tablespoons of dessicated liver powder in my protein shake back 20 years ago. You had to hold your nose and gag this down. The protein itself was non-instantized, required a blender and was far less palatable than any of the proteins you guys are accusing of tasting bad nowadays. But I noticed, even in my teens, a far greater level of energy and stamina with dessicated liver, and I was doing full body workouts back then.

My reason for taking liver tabs is primarily the anti-fatigue factor, which is not placebo effect. I began to notice several years ago that when I ran out of dessicated liver for a week or more, my stamina noticeably decreased in the last stages of a really intense workout. I began to realize my strength held out longer in the gym, and I seemed to recuperate faster. Even if someone was to show me a 50 page clinical study proving liver cannot do what I know it does; well, sometimes real world results fly in the face of logic.


wait some more
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According to Vince Gironda, the "Iron Guru", desiccated liver contains nucleic acids for proper amino-acid utilization, a growth factor and an anti-estrogen factor, which keeps testosterone levels high, and it is also a great anti-toxin.

"... liver tablets are one of the most potent training aids for the bodybuilder. The formula is an extract which contains only trace amounts of fat and cholesterol, but forty-five times the nutritional value of whole beef liver, yet with all the nutrients and enzymes of raw liver."

"...being very high in useable bodybuilding protein of the highest quality (it contains all the essential amino acids). It's a strong blood builder supplying heme iron. It is a very rich source of B vitamins, especially riboflavin, niacin, B-12, and the lipotropics choline and inositol. It's a good source of vitamins A, C, and D and other micro-nutrients and very rich in minerals such as the anti oxidant selenium, phosphorous, copper, zinc, and GTF chromium (insulin regulator). In addition to these known nutrients, there are substances present in liver shown to have a beneficial effect on health, fitness, and endurance such as cytochrome P-450 and others that have yet to be identified. "


"In a classic experiment, Dr. B. H. Ershoff demonstrated that liver extract was able to boost strength, endurance, performance, and resistance to stress and disease. In a nutshell here's how this occurred:

Dr. Ershoff took three groups of rats and fed them controlled diets for a twelve week period. Group one ate a basic diet fortified with vitamins and minerals. Group two ate as much as they wanted of the same diet plus B vitamins and brewer's yeast. Group three ate the basic diet but had 10% desiccated liver added to their rations.

Then the doctor placed the rats one by one into a drum of water, out of which they could not climb. Therefore, it was either swim or drown. The group one rats swam an average of 13.2 minutes before they all drowned. Group two, an average of 13.4 minutes. Group three, however, were still swimming at the end of two hours, at which time the experiment was concluded. Now either the group three rats had watched the fate of their counterparts very closely, or the liver had something to do with them swimming almost 10 times as long. As far as we know, no other supplement has even come close to liver in improving endurance."

[Jedi Master]

you can get universal and beverlys liver tabs here.....

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/univ/liver.html

[dito]

I have been mega dosing ICE around 15 scoops per day on work out ones. On non WO days I take about 8 scoops. I have tried liver tabs, and all they have done for me is give me stinky farts(can be useful at times). I was taking around 22 pills a day of the Uniliver. So I have read that Beverly ones are supposedly better. But for the cost? Id rather buy a B complex and take an extra multi.

[Jedi Master]

Originally posted by dito
I have been mega dosing ICE around 15 scoops per day on work out ones. On non WO days I take about 8 scoops. I have tried liver tabs, and all they have done for me is give me stinky farts(can be useful at times). I was taking around 22 pills a day of the Uniliver. So I have read that Beverly ones are supposedly better. But for the cost? Id rather buy a B complex and take an extra multi.

Wow 15 scoops a day? That must get expensive. I only use 6-8 scoops on days I lift, so a bottle of ICE lasts me a bit longer than you.

I was thinking of trying perhaps 10 scoops before a hard cardio session to see if it staves off any muscle catabolism. I can lift very heavy, and if I supplement with ICE there is a very noticeable amount of quickend recovery, and less muscle soreness the following day(s) after.

Oh yeah and grape ICE is the best, it taste like sugar free grape kool aid...

[dito]

Originally posted by Jedi Master
Wow 15 scoops a day? That must get expensive. I only use 6-8 scoops on days I lift, so a bottle of ICE lasts me a bit longer than you.

I was thinking of trying perhaps 10 scoops before a hard cardio session to see if it staves off any muscle catabolism. I can lift very heavy, and if I supplement with ICE there is a very noticeable amount of quickend recovery, and less muscle soreness the following day(s) after.

Oh yeah and grape ICE is the best, it taste like sugar free grape kool aid...

Hell yeah its pricey. Yeah I increase weight and revover much faster. I like fruit punch the best.

[pu12en12g]

1. Creatine supplements including Swole V2
2. Protein
3. Nitric Oxide Supplements
4. Flaxseed oil / EFA

[str8flexed]

Originally posted by Kraftydog
basics
whey protien isolate(factory or customizer, but I prefer bi-pro)
micellar casein(same)
r-ala (I prefer glucorellr)
ginger root (digestion of all that protein, any brand is fine)
Glutamine peptides(if they get them to taste better)

for prework stims or as fatburners
EC (strongest CNS and clean- see signature)
CLEN (though it only seems to work good a couple of times)
NYC (though this makes me feel not right)
Thermorexin (better for cardio type exercise)

glutamine peptide... glucorellr


ROFLMAO yeesh

[nobull]

In my experience, aside from a good multi and protein... Uni-Liver.

[John Benz]

Beverly Ultra-40 is my favorite non-hormonal supp. Liver is to be used on a daily basis to build strength and stamina. These I take with every meal, and I feel their greatest benefit is the p-450 anti-fatigue factor. Comparing liver tabs to BCAAs is apples and oranges. Liver tabs can't replace replace BCAAs, and BCAAs can't replace liver.

Whether using complete amino acid complex tabs or simply BCAA's, the absorption rate of liver is far slower and can in no way be compared to branch chain aminos in the form of casein hydrosylates. When these aminos are needed quickly, liver tabs can't get the job done. Nor can even the best hydrolyzed whey protein. BCAA supplementation prior to and throughout the workout to prevent catabolism is their sole purpose. Liver is highly anabolic, and is not taken for the B Vitamins or the BCAA. Much more to liver than that!

Read Jedi Master's dessicated liver post again.

Right after Liver tabs and BCAA's, but before creatine, I would include glutamine peptides. Very cheap insurance against soft tissue injury.

[dito]

Aye dont start with the Glutamine stuff again.

[John Benz]

Beverly Ultra-40 is my favorite non-hormonal supp. Liver is to be used on a daily basis to build strength and stamina. These I take with every meal, and I feel their greatest benefit is the p-450 anti-fatigue factor. Comparing liver tabs to BCAAs is apples and oranges. Liver tabs can't replace replace BCAAs, and BCAAs can't replace liver.

Whether using complete amino acid complex tabs or simply BCAA's, the absorption rate of liver is far slower and can in no way be compared to branch chain aminos in the form of casein hydrosylates. When these aminos are needed quickly, liver tabs can't get the job done. Nor can even the best hydrolyzed whey protein. BCAA supplementation prior to and throughout the workout to prevent catabolism is their sole purpose. Liver is highly anabolic, and is not taken for the B Vitamins or the BCAA. Much more to liver than that!

Read Jedi Master's dessicated liver post again.

Right after Liver tabs and BCAA's, but before creatine, I would include glutamine peptides. Very cheap insurance against soft tissue injury.

[Jedi Master]

Originally posted by John Benz
Beverly Ultra-40 is my favorite non-hormonal supp. Liver is to be used on a daily basis to build strength and stamina. These I take with every meal, and I feel their greatest benefit is the p-450 anti-fatigue factor. Comparing liver tabs to BCAAs is apples and oranges. Liver tabs can't replace replace BCAAs, and BCAAs can't replace liver.

Whether using complete amino acid complex tabs or simply BCAA's, the absorption rate of liver is far slower and can in no way be compared to branch chain aminos in the form of casein hydrosylates. When these aminos are needed quickly, liver tabs can't get the job done. Nor can even the best hydrolyzed whey protein. BCAA supplementation prior to and throughout the workout to prevent catabolism is their sole purpose. Liver is highly anabolic, and is not taken for the B Vitamins or the BCAA. Much more to liver than that!

Read Jedi Master's dessicated liver post again.

Right after Liver tabs and BCAA's, but before creatine, I would include glutamine peptides. Very cheap insurance against soft tissue injury.

Hey John I hope you know I titled my post with your information with your name, just so you dont think I ripped it off from you. It is well written and couldnt say it better myself.

On a side note I finally made it over to GM, its a great site John, Im glad you are a mod their.

[dito]

Originally posted by Jedi Master
Hey John I hope you know I titled my post with your information with your name, just so you dont think I ripped it off from you. It is well written and couldnt say it better myself.

On a side note I finally made it over to GM, its a great site John, Im glad you are a mod their.

GM is a good site.

Personally I cant justify using liver tabs or Glutamine. Since I did not notice anything from either. Different strokes for different folks.

[Jedi Master]

Originally posted by dito
Different strokes

Isnt that the show where some old white man raises some inner city kids or something?