Lyle McDonald GBR

[SaulGuzman]

I was checking out Lyle McDonald bulking routine and I saw that he suggests doing this on lower days:

Squat
SLDL OR Leg Curl
Leg Press
Another Leg Curl
Calf Raise
Seated Calf Raises

So, basically, he relies on squats to target everything except of knee flexion, calves and rectus femoris so he addresses these issues by incorporating leg curls, calf raises and leg press respectively. I know that many people achieve great results nowadays, as in the past, without deadlifting. But, do you think it's okay to leave all the work for the hip hinge movement pattern solely to squats? And why does he consider SLDL and leg curls interchangeable when one primarily involves movement from the hip and the other from the knee?

[air2fakie]

I know that many people achieve great results nowadays, as in the past, without deadlifting. But, do you think it's okay to leave all the work for the hip hinge movement pattern solely to squats? And why does he consider SLDL and leg curls interchangeable when one primarily involves movement from the hip and the other from the knee?

In your own questions you both acknowledge and ignore the fact that SLDL is a DL variation.

Also, he's fine if you DL on GBR. You're not necessarily supposed to do the exact same thing on the other lower day.

[SaulGuzman]

In your own questions you both acknowledge and ignore the fact that SLDL is a DL variation.

Also, he's fine if you DL on GBR. You're not necessarily supposed to do the exact same thing on the other lower day.

I know that SLDL is a DL variation. However, if I'm not mistaken, you can choose between perform both or pick one of them. Therefore, you can follow this program without incorporating any deadlift or hip hinge variants.

[air2fakie]

I know that SLDL is a DL variation. However, if I'm not mistaken, you can choose between perform both or pick one of them. Therefore, you can follow this program without incorporating any deadlift or hip hinge variants.

He specifically also says you can choose a DL-leg press combo too and other substitutions. Therefore, you can incorporate them too - do whatever you want.

These "do you think it's ok?" type questions aren't really that useful.

[SuicideGripMe]

From his program design, you can get an idea how he understands the audience. Some people will complain about RDL's... so he gives an option. He does not give an option for squat, so that's his non-negotiable. GBR is for general population... and general population overall complains and makes 1,000,000 excuses.

In general, when I make recommendations to people I do the same thing, I make pattern recommendations not lift recommendations. If I say squat, do a squat pattern (back, goblet, box, etc).

No routine is "perfect" and working to perfect a routine that will ultimately stop producing results in 8-16 weeks (or something) is just a waste of time IMO.

Now, after that rant, is the RDL an effective replacement for pulls from the floor? For general population, I'd argue yes. For powerlifters, obviously no. Most people lack the mobility and flexiblity to deads from the floor right or they lack the space/flooring to do it. While they should deadlift and build that mobility, I'd argue most don't want to and it's a time economy thing... If RDL's are 90% as effective as traditional deads, but deads take a person 1-2 months to build the proper mobility and they realistically are only going to train for a few months before bailing from the gym... what's the best bang for your buck?

[air2fakie]

OP, to be clear, GBR isn’t a program like F5 where the author declares that you must run it exactly as written except for his few allowable substitutions.

[SaulGuzman]

From his program design, you can get an idea how he understands the audience. Some people will complain about RDL's... so he gives an option. He does not give an option for squat, so that's his non-negotiable. GBR is for general population... and general population overall complains and makes 1,000,000 excuses.

OP, to be clear, GBR isn’t a program like F5 where the author declares that you must run it exactly as written except for his few allowable substitutions.

Based on my experience, this field tends to follow trends. What's in vogue today might be considered wrong in a few years. Many of the things that used to get people big are now criticized. I don't necessarily see these trends as negative because we're continually gathering more information to guide us better. A lot of these trends emerged because we became more knowledgeable. However, I try not to be too inflexible. Recently, I've noticed a growing tendency to overlook deadlifts.

I know several coaches who prefer to omit deadlifts. They don't completely eliminate them, but most of the athletes they work with don't perform deadlifts.

However, all of them perform some type of hip hinge, whether it's hip thrusts, glute bridges, swings, good mornings, hyperextensions, or some type of machine. They also do a lot of split squat work where they emphasize the posterior chain, which I think is also quite important to consider. But, they all agree that squatting alone isn't enough and you need some kind of hip hinge.

That's when I noticed that Lyle's routine could be followed without including deadlifts, split squats, or any type of hip hinge. It was quite surprising and what prompted me to start this thread. It makes sense that rather than being a methodological decision by Lyle himself, it's a way of adapting things to a population that prefers to be as comfortable as possible.

[air2fakie]

That's when I noticed that Lyle's routine could be followed without including deadlifts, split squats, or any type of hip hinge. It was quite surprising and what prompted me to start this thread. It makes sense that rather than being a methodological decision by Lyle himself, it's a way of adapting things to a population that prefers to be as comfortable as possible.

Dude as I said above, he also doesn't care if you do DLs - I don't think he's taking a major position one way or another. He likely wouldn't want you going all out on squats & DLs in the same workout though, just his preference.

It's a "generic" bulking routine meant to build muscle. If you think something may be off, you should look at whole program overall and see if you think something is deficient from a muscle perspective without the DLs - and not focus on the lack of DL itself. Regardless, he has been very clear that it can be adjusted to suit one's needs and preferences.