Why do novice routines have so few reps?

[blackteacz]

Hi,

complete novice here. I am looking at novice programs and I have noticed that the almost all use very low reps. I.e. 4-8 for compounds and 8-12 for isolations. With 8 and 12 being an oddball rather than norm.

Why is that? Is it because novices use such low weights that they can easily recover from (relatively for them) heavier sets? Or because they also need good strenght foundation?

I have seen one comment on YT from Alex Leonidas stating that novices get low reps due to the fact that they are not that capable at determining their RIR and usually dont push themselves as much as required = low reps mean good effort close to failure.

Thanks for any input on this.

/B

[coachcalande]

Hi,

complete novice here. I am looking at novice programs and I have noticed that the almost all use very low reps. I.e. 4-8 for compounds and 8-12 for isolations. With 8 and 12 being an oddball rather than norm.

Why is that? Is it because novices use such low weights that they can easily recover from (relatively for them) heavier sets? Or because they also need good strenght foundation?

I have seen one comment on YT from Alex Leonidas stating that novices get low reps due to the fact that they are not that capable at determining their RIR and usually dont push themselves as much as required = low reps mean good effort close to failure.

Thanks for any input on this.

/B

They don’t. It’s just the ones you are looking at, often the ones pushed here on this obscure forum.

Pick up 99/100 bodybuilding books and you will NOT see novice programs with 5 rep sets.

[Kewbrah]

It's kind of an internet meme to give n00bs these programs that have hardly any set and really low reps so they make no gains and quit.

Nobody actually trains like that.

[blackteacz]

Sarcasm appreciated. I am still interested in learning something out of this though.

I have also read that this might be due to the fact that begginers have less chance of ****ing up the form if they do less reps.

[StephenCGreen]

Five reps is actually four to six reps.

It does not take long at all to increase weight with so few reps.

Add to that, you will likely be doing about 5 sets.

Add to that, you will soon be doing warm up sets.

In just a few weeks, you will be doing a whole lot of reps and at much heavier weight than otherwise!

[air2fakie]

As coach noted above, what you're saying isn't entirely true as a general statement for all novice programs. And it also applies to many intermediate & advanced programs as well.

There are LOTS of ways to build muscle, so do whatever you feel works best for you. However, to get to your question which does reflect the parameters of many novice programs...

In actual practice, novices in commercial gyms everywhere tend to spend hours in the gym daily, year after year lifting the same weight and looking the same in the mirror. These tend to be novices doing completely random programs, upper body only, high volume bro splits, PPLs, etc.

With the right mindset, consistency & effort such programs will work fine, but for the vast majority of beginners they will steer them in the direction of endless workouts where the weight (& muscle) never increases beyond a beginner level.

So there's not one universal answer to your question other than that - in actual practice - it's harder for a novice to mess up a program that has a "lower" rep range for compounds, slightly higher rep range for isolations, distinct progression protocol, and relatively "lower" volume overall. In actual practice, this tends to help a novice over the hump of lifting beginner level weights & move forward to an intermediate level.

You yourself mention above a couple of reasons why novice programs are able to do this. But there are others as well. Personally I wouldn't want to do >8 reps for deadlifts, squats etc. anyway.

In the end, do whatever works for you. But if you find that you're making no progress, spinning your wheels, etc. - do a proper novice program that reflects some of the concepts you mention above. Once you build a base foundation of strength, muscle & experience, you can move on to an intermediate program or build your own program that reflects your preferences & goals.

[blackteacz]

Thanks for replies everyone.

I have also now read the "Training for STRENGTH vs. SIZE" thread that explains the fact that novices can maximize both size and neural gains at around this "low" rep count. After this is no longer possible, higehr reps "might" be in order, with all of the limitations you have mentioned (DL at high rteps etc). It all fits nicely together.

I follow a simple 3x/week full body program and I am super happy with the results. It was just that the numbers sparked my interest.

/B

[radrd]

Here's my take which us inline with Alex Leonidas.

Intensity is one of the keys to building strength and hypertrophy. Lifting in the low to moderate rep ranges allows you to bring the intensity and learn your limits so you can develop a considerable base of strength. When you know what failure or near failure feels like at 5 reps, you will be much more successful should you choose to move to a program where you are working in higher rep ranges. If you start out in higher rep ranges, you're more likely to mistake fatigue for failure and strength gains will be a lot slower.

Also, the understanding that significant hypertrophy requires lifting in higher rep ranges appears to be debatable at best, and it's hard for me to imagine any novice saying "I only want to get big but not strong", so starting out in rep ranges known to effectively increase strength makes a lot of sense. I can't imagine recommending that a novice fart around with 16-25 reps which may be mostly cardio and conditioning without a solid base of strength and understanding of what going to failure feels like.

[blackteacz]

Here's my take which us inline with Alex Leonidas.

Intensity is one of the keys to building strength and hypertrophy. Lifting in the low to moderate rep ranges allows you to bring the intensity and learn your limits so you can develop a considerable base of strength. When you know what failure or near failure feels like at 5 reps, you will be much more successful should you choose to move to a program where you are working in higher rep ranges. If you start out in higher rep ranges, you're more likely to mistake fatigue for failure and strength gains will be a lot slower.

Also, the understanding that significant hypertrophy requires lifting in higher rep ranges appears to be debatable at best, and it's hard for me to imagine any novice saying "I only want to get big but not strong", so starting out in rep ranges known to effectively increase strength makes a lot of sense. I can't imagine recommending that a novice fart around with 16-25 reps which may be mostly cardio and conditioning without a solid base of strength and understanding of what going to failure feels like.

Thanks a lot!

[SuicideGripMe]

5's are the best mix of strength and hypertophy. Also, we typically don't see form breakdown as much as you do with 12 reps (cardiovascular system becomes a thing). Damn, where's Mark Rippetoe when you need him...

[Tybittz3]

I was literally wondering the same thing about fierce 5. but the responses in this thread make more sense.