NY Times Journalist attacks leading scientists for misleading him over Covid Lab Leak

[gwg77]

From his Wiki:

Donald Gerard McNeil Jr. (born February 1, 1954) is an American journalist. He was a science and health reporter for The New York Times where he reported on epidemics, including HIV/AIDS and the COVID-19 pandemic. His reporting on COVID-19 earned him widespread recognition for being one of the earliest and most prominent voices covering the pandemic.

A former New York Times journalist has attacked a group of leading scientists for “clearly” misleading him over the Covid lab-leak theory in the early days of the pandemic.

Donald McNeil Jr said he became sceptical of the hypothesis the virus was engineered in a Wuhan lab after several top epidemiological virologists insisted it wasn’t possible.

Mr McNeil Jr said their efforts to throw him “off track” influenced the newspaper’s coverage of the theory and likely contributed to the topic being “dropped” for a year.

However, the experts initially thought the lab leak theory was plausible but didn’t want to disclose so for political reasons, according to a raft of messages between them accidentally released by a US congressional committee last year.

In his book The Wisdom of Plagues, which looks back at 25 years covering pandemics, Mr McNeil Jr said the scientists “clearly misled me early on” and he was a “victim of deception”.

He said he was “disappointed, both in them and in myself, that I was so easily taken in”.

“It’s one thing to be lied to by a politician and fail to check it out. But on viral evolution, to whom do you go for a second opinion?”, he wrote.

“If Albert Einstein assured you that nuclear fission is harmless, whom would you trust to quote saying, ‘Einstein’s dead wrong?”

Mr McNeil Jr resigned from the New York Times in 2021 after the paper reprimanded him for repeating a racial slur used by a student in a discussion of whether that student should be suspended by their school.

Last year, private messages released by the US Oversight Committee revealed conversations between several scientists who penned a key paper published in Nature Medicine in March 2020.

The paper, The Proximal Origin of Sars-CoV-2, argued that a natural spillover event caused the pandemic and was instrumental in stifling debate into the origins of the virus.

Among the authors were British scientist Prof Andrew Rambaut, professor of molecular evolution at the University of Edinburgh, and first author Prof Kristian Andersen, of the Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, California.

The messages showed that in the weeks before publication the scientists had acknowledged that a laboratory leak was a possibility but were concerned about upsetting the Chinese.

Some of the messages also showed the researchers discussing how to respond to queries from Mr McNeil Jr about the origins of the virus.

Mr McNeil Jr emailed both Prof Rambaut and Prof Andersen on 6 February 2020 over a tip off that the government was trying to investigate the possibility the virus was made in a lab in Wuhan.

The scientists shared his emails on messaging platform Slack, with Professor Robert Garry writing Mr McNeil Jr was “very credible but like any reporter can be mislead [sic]”.

“Don... pretty much nailed it,” Prof Andersen added. “Let’s not tell him.” They told him the rumours were “demonstrably false” and 10 days later published Proximal Origins.

Discussing his response to another email from Mr McNeil Jr nine days later, Prof Andersen told his colleagues he had used “humour to deflect the fact I’m dismissing him” and added a “very deliberate” smiley face.

Mr McNeil Jr said the scientists’ responses affected how he interpreted the issue and how the newspaper covered it.

He said the debate has now reached a “stalemate” and “adherents of both sides keep hurling mud”.

“Science journalists are caught in the middle – even editors not committed to either side for partisan reasons keep demanding to know which explanation is most likely so they can assign analyses of which political candidates benefit”, he wrote.

“If both sides are willing to lie or mislead journalists, embarrassing errors become inevitable. And the truth never comes out.”

Prof Andersen told Mr McNeil Jr he had never misled him and his answers were “accurate and specific”.

Last year he said the messages had “been hijacked by grifters and conspiracy theorists, and turned into a nonsensical political circus where individual scientists (i.e. human beings) are being targeted and harassed.”

Responding to the release of messages in 2023, Prof Rambaut said that there was no proof of accidental release, so the team had erred on the side of caution.

“We had no evidence it was anything other than a virus from nature,” he said: “Don’t go accusing people of things if there is no evidence.”

Mr McNeil Jr said he was “surprised” to read the Slack messages released in July.

“They apparently felt it would be reckless to tell me what they suspected,” he said, adding: “I think that was a mistake. I’m a pretty careful reporter and not an alarmist. I could have explained the context.

“In any case, I think it’s generally a bad idea to mislead reporters. In democracies, all the beans eventually get spilled.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/...b-leak-theory/



All the Slack messages in chronicle order:

https://twitter.com/Bryce_Nickels/st...96677825519776



Here is the Slack message where Robert Garry said Mcneil could easily be misled:

[Bushmaster]

In before the Branch Covidians burn his house down.

[JUSA]

Wait, scientists lie? That is simply impossible.

It's funny how he admits he was taken in, but those of us who were not (those that at least remained skeptical of the official story) were relentlessly attacked. Constantly told how stupid we were, how The Science was settled and all that. I recall one poster in particular who was very condescending to anyone who suspected Wuhan could have been the place of origin.

I don't think any are going to walk it back, but at least this journo is willing to admit he was fooled.

[uneducated]

How does he know he was misled when the leading scientists still stand by it not being a lab leak? Lots of things are plausible. But there have been a few papers arguing for a natural origin. Haven't seen any establishing a lab leak.

And why wouldn't you be worried about the Chinese response? Do you really want a full scale diplomatic catastrophe during a pandemic? It's a good thing we didn't go balls deep on China considering what later happened with Russia.

[Anachron]

How does he know he was misled when the leading scientists still stand by it not being a lab leak? Lots of things are plausible. But there have been a few papers arguing for a natural origin. Haven't seen any establishing a lab leak.

And why wouldn't you be worried about the Chinese response? Do you really want a full scale diplomatic catastrophe during a pandemic? It's a good thing we didn't go balls deep on China considering what later happened with Russia.

Imagine doubling down as the house of cards is starting to fall down.

[Bodhy]

How does he know he was misled when the leading scientists still stand by it not being a lab leak? Lots of things are plausible. But there have been a few papers arguing for a natural origin. Haven't seen any establishing a lab leak.

And why wouldn't you be worried about the Chinese response? Do you really want a full scale diplomatic catastrophe during a pandemic? It's a good thing we didn't go balls deep on China considering what later happened with Russia.

I've got 75% of a box of chicken nuggets in my fridge ATM (100% srs) and I'd bet them all that this is just a very clickbaity title plus a journalist just not understanding the science.

Responding to the release of messages in 2023, Prof Rambaut said that there was no proof of accidental release, so the team had erred on the side of caution.

“We had no evidence it was anything other than a virus from nature,” he said: “Don’t go accusing people of things if there is no evidence.”

Emphasis mine. Who was misled? It says there the scientists say there is no proof of lab leak, and no evidence it's anything other than a natural origin. The point about not accusing people of things with no evidence is well taken. Some here should take heed of that.

[Anachron]

I've got 75% of a box of chicken nuggets in my fridge ATM (100% srs) and I'd bet them all that this is just a very clickbaity title plus a journalist just not understanding the science.





Emphasis mine. Who was misled? It says there the scientists say there is no proof of lab leak, and no evidence it's anything other than a natural origin. The point about not accusing people of things with no evidence is well taken. Some here should take heed of that.

Yet another post that is clearly playing the man, not the ball.

Will the hypocrisy never end?

[uneducated]

Imagine doubling down as the house of cards is starting to fall down.

I've made it clear that if I were in that situation, and I even KNEW it was a lab leak, I'd call up China and share the info and privately get the labs to tighten up so it never happened again, but I sure as chit would never tell the public about it. Nothing good can possibly come from it. If you had any idea how many times the US has fuked up bioweapons/bio research, you'd be more skeptical of us than China, btw. But the research they were doing at WIV was necessary to better understand SARS and also part of why we were able to understand covid so quickly. And the next time a coronavirus based pandemic happens (and there will be another), we will be ready thanks to our work with the Chinese. Don't forget we had SARS and then MERS and then Covid all in 20 years. There will be many more.

IF (and it's a big IF) it was a lab leak, I am sure Xi has already killed whoever fuked up and ordered the relevant changes. All biolabs have tightened their measures since covid. Any further bickering will solve NOTHING and possibly worsen the already failing diplomatic relationship between China and the US.

[gwg77]

How does he know he was misled when the leading scientists still stand by it not being a lab leak? Lots of things are plausible. But there have been a few papers arguing for a natural origin. Haven't seen any establishing a lab leak.

And why wouldn't you be worried about the Chinese response? Do you really want a full scale diplomatic catastrophe during a pandemic? It's a good thing we didn't go balls deep on China considering what later happened with Russia.

Because Slack messages explicitly say they mislead him? I posted the one Slack message in the OP.

You should look through all these Slack messages:

https://twitter.com/Bryce_Nickels/st...96677825519776

[Bushmaster]

I've made it clear that if I were in that situation, and I even KNEW it was a lab leak, I'd call up China and share the info and privately get the labs to tighten up so it never happened again, but I sure as chit would never tell the public about it. Nothing good can possibly come from it. If you had any idea how many times the US has fuked up bioweapons/bio research, you'd be more skeptical of us than China, btw. But the research they were doing at WIV was necessary to better understand SARS and also part of why we were able to understand covid so quickly. And the next time a coronavirus based pandemic happens (and there will be another), we will be ready thanks to our work with the Chinese. Don't forget we had SARS and then MERS and then Covid all in 20 years. There will be many more.

So... we shouldn't trust the science now?

[Anachron]

I've made it clear that if I were in that situation, and I even KNEW it was a lab leak, I'd call up China and share the info and privately get the labs to tighten up so it never happened again, but I sure as chit would never tell the public about it. Nothing good can possibly come from it. If you had any idea how many times the US has fuked up bioweapons/bio research, you'd be more skeptical of us than China, btw. But the research they were doing at WIV was necessary to better understand SARS and also part of why we were able to understand covid so quickly. And the next time a coronavirus based pandemic happens (and there will be another), we will be ready thanks to our work with the Chinese. Don't forget we had SARS and then MERS and then Covid all in 20 years. There will be many more.

Interesting admission as bolded.

Who is this "we" that you keep referring to?

[uneducated]

Interesting admission as bolded.

Who is this "we" that you keep referring to?

Humans

[gwg77]

I've made it clear that if I were in that situation, and I even KNEW it was a lab leak, I'd call up China and share the info and privately get the labs to tighten up so it never happened again, but I sure as chit would never tell the public about it. Nothing good can possibly come from it. If you had any idea how many times the US has fuked up bioweapons/bio research, you'd be more skeptical of us than China, btw. But the research they were doing at WIV was necessary to better understand SARS and also part of why we were able to understand covid so quickly. And the next time a coronavirus based pandemic happens (and there will be another), we will be ready thanks to our work with the Chinese. Don't forget we had SARS and then MERS and then Covid all in 20 years. There will be many more.

IF (and it's a big IF) it was a lab leak, I am sure Xi has already killed whoever fuked up and ordered the relevant changes. All biolabs have tightened their measures since covid. Any further bickering will solve NOTHING and possibly worsen the already failing diplomatic relationship between China and the US.

[uneducated]

So... we shouldn't trust the science now?

You do whatever you want. The science will continue on without you, as it always has.

[Bushmaster]

You do whatever you want. The science will continue on without you, as it always has.

They gonna keep fuking up their research? Or nah...

"If you had any idea how many times the US has fuked up bioweapons/bio research.."

[uneducated]

Do you realize how hard it is to predict pandemics lol? Who caused MERS? SARS? Those weren't lab leaks. There are definitely going to be more coronavirus based pandemics as these viruses hop to human hosts.

[Anachron]

Humans

Interesting.

So if the "we" you refer to are "humans", what do you mean by "they", when referring to the Chinese?

Please do try to keep your virtue signaling in check, wincel.

[uneducated]

They gonna keep fuking up their research? Or nah...

"If you had any idea how many times the US has fuked up bioweapons/bio research.."

There is pretty much a 100% chance there will be fukups along the way. That's how it is.

[uneducated]

Interesting.

So if the "we" you refer to are "humans", what do you mean by "they", when referring to the Chinese?

Please do try to keep your virtue signaling in check, wincel.

"they" = scientists in China

[Bushmaster]

There is pretty much a 100% chance there will be fukups along the way. That's how it is.

But just trust it anyway.. right winny?

[Bodhy]

I've made it clear that if I were in that situation, and I even KNEW it was a lab leak, I'd call up China and share the info and privately get the labs to tighten up so it never happened again, but I sure as chit would never tell the public about it. Nothing good can possibly come from it. If you had any idea how many times the US has fuked up bioweapons/bio research, you'd be more skeptical of us than China, btw. But the research they were doing at WIV was necessary to better understand SARS and also part of why we were able to understand covid so quickly. And the next time a coronavirus based pandemic happens (and there will be another), we will be ready thanks to our work with the Chinese. Don't forget we had SARS and then MERS and then Covid all in 20 years. There will be many more.

IF (and it's a big IF) it was a lab leak, I am sure Xi has already killed whoever fuked up and ordered the relevant changes. All biolabs have tightened their measures since covid. Any further bickering will solve NOTHING and possibly worsen the already failing diplomatic relationship between China and the US.

Actually, that's part of the evidence base for natural origins outlined by James Deuhr, PhD. Lab leaks have happened before, they're not outlandishly rare things. And the scientists involved don't cover it up and we know what they look like, and how Covid didn't look like them.


Also, the fact that there have been outbreaks in China before is why the WIV is built in Wuhan. It makes sense to put the lab near a hotspot for viral outbreaks. And Covid happened in the exact way scientists were warning us about, a animal-human crossover made more likely by all the chit we're doing to the environment. The collaborative work between WIV and the West was anticipatory in nature because preparedness makes sense. We knew something like this was coming and only a matter of time. And there'll be more if we don't take steps to not fuk up the world.


I see too, there's nothing in the way of new scientific evidene for the leak, and MUH FURIN CLEAVAGE SITE gets another outing.

[Anachron]

There is pretty much a 100% chance there will be fukups along the way. That's how it is.

But at the same time "there is almost 0% chance of it being a 'fukup' this time".

Keep doubling down, it is very funny to see the "academics" of the misc slowly backpedal to the same stance that some of us had since day one.

[Anachron]

Actually, that's part of the evidence base for natural origins outlined by James Deuhr, PhD. Lab leaks have happened before, they're not outlandishly rare things. And the scientists involved don't cover it up and we know what they look like, and how Covid didn't look like them.


Also, the fact that there have been outbreaks in China before is why the WIV is built in Wuhan. It makes sense to put the lab near a hotspot for viral outbreaks.


I see too, there's nothing in the way of new scientific evidene for the leak, and MUH FURIN CLEAVAGE SITE gets another outing.

You might want to fact check that.

[Anachron]

"they" = scientists in China

So how come they are not included in the "we"?

wincel's closet racism coming out again, first Indians, now Chinese.

[Bushmaster]

But at the same time "there is almost 0% chance of it being a 'fukup' this time".

Keep doubling down, it is very funny to see the "academics" of the misc slowly backpedal to the same stance that some of us had since day one.

LMAO!!!

SO much this lol.. God help the poor bastard who suggested "the science" was anything less than perfect a couple of years ago. Oh, but now though... "There will always be fukups - that's just the way she goes" lol.

[gwg77]

Do you realize how hard it is to predict pandemics lol? Who caused MERS? SARS? Those weren't lab leaks. There are definitely going to be more coronavirus based pandemics as these viruses hop to human hosts.

I was more focused on:

"So if they're not able to predict the pandemics they themselves cause"

[uneducated]

But just trust it anyway.. right winny?

What is the alternative? Not do research and then get caught hapless and suffer mass casualties?

[uneducated]

LMAO!!!

SO much this lol.. God help the poor bastard who suggested "the science" was anything less than perfect a couple of years ago. Oh, but now though... "There will always be fukups - that's just the way she goes" lol.

No. I said a lab leak is plausible. I just said the evidence seems to point to natty. Nobody actually knows where this virus came from, aside from a few people at WIV, who would know whether it leaked or not. And they are saying it didn't leak, and we have no way of finding out the truth from them.

[Anachron]

No. I said a lab leak is plausible. I just said the evidence seems to point to natty. Nobody actually knows where this virus came from, aside from a few people at WIV, who would know whether it leaked or not. And they are saying it didn't leak, and we have no way of finding out the truth from them.

The slow backpedal is very amusing.

It's OK wincel, you will eventually get to the same point where some of us were from day one.

[uneducated]

I was more focused on:

"So if they're not able to predict the pandemics they themselves cause"

Yeah and in an early email, it is possible he thought it was a lab leak and later changed his mind. The papers still make sense. It's also possible he is covering it up, and if so, he probably came to the same conclusion I did.