NY Times Journalist attacks leading scientists for misleading him over Covid Lab Leak

[gwg77]

No. My position was antivaxxers are subhuman. And also people who malign China after they gave us the sequence and told us it was airborne. They went way beyond what they would be expected to do to help.

Imagine if it WASN'T a lab leak, and the Chinese went out of their way to help us, and we reacted like this.

China did the entire world a disservice (to say the least) by shutting out WHO investigators from WIV. You're a complete moron.

[Dave22reborn]

Interesting how if it was a lab leak, its China's fault, and if it was because of the wet markets, it's still China's fault, and we all ignore that it was pretty much China's fault.

Hell, they haven't even closed down their wet markets.

[Anachron]

China did the entire world a disservice (to say the least) by shutting out WHO investigators from WIV. You're a complete moron.

Let's not sink the the same level as the "academics", there is no reason to call names.

[uneducated]

China did the entire world a disservice (to say the least) by shutting out WHO investigators from WIV. You're a complete moron.

Why would China acquiesce to such an investigation? Remember what hostility the US was showing? Do you remember what happened last time the UN sent inspectors somewhere on behalf of the US, and they came up with a conclusion? Hint: Look at Syria. Do you think China wanted that? These international agencies often act as pawns for US foreign policy. Why would China comply with ANY American demands at all?

[Dave22reborn]

Nah. Your plan was to pray, let the virus rip, and kill as many as possible. That's dumb.

And your plan was what?

[uneducated]

And your plan was what?

Swiss cheese model. Take precautions because the virus was airborne. Therapeutics, vaccinations, distancing, air filtration using Corsi-Rosenthal boxes, screening at entry points to country, quarantines in major affected cities early on. Sane and rational actions taken to prevent the spread and death to any airborne virus...

[Anachron]

Why would China acquiesce to such an investigation? Remember what hostility the US was showing? Do you remember what happened last time the UN sent inspectors somewhere on behalf of the US, and they came up with a conclusion? Hint: Look at Syria. Do you think China wanted that? These international agencies often act as pawns for US foreign policy. Why would China comply with ANY American demands at all?

The backpedaling is getting more and more spectacular.

[Anachron]

And your plan was what?

His plan was to call everyone who questioned the official narrative "subhuman".

[uneducated]

Interesting how if it was a lab leak, its China's fault, and if it was because of the wet markets, it's still China's fault, and we all ignore that it was pretty much China's fault.

Hell, they haven't even closed down their wet markets.

And this is exactly why this discussion is toxic and dangerous for world peace.

[uneducated]

The backpedaling is getting more and more spectacular.

If the origin was the US, would we ever comply with a full Chinese investigation?

Has any foreign country ever been allowed to investigate the false WMD claims made to justify the Iraq invasion?

I rest my case.

Of course angry nationalists are going to blame and hate the Chinese. It changes nothing at the end of the day.

[Anachron]

If the origin was the US, would we ever comply with a full Chinese investigation?

Has any foreign country ever been allowed to investigate the false WMD claims made to justify the Iraq invasion?

I rest my case.

Of course angry nationalists are going to blame and hate the Chinese. It changes nothing at the end of the day.

I wasn't aware that the WHO was responsible for the false WMD claims.

This keeps getting better and better!

[uneducated]

I wasn't aware that the WHO was responsible for the false WMD claims.

This keeps getting better and better!

Not the point being made. The point is China has no reason to comply with any US investigations on anything whatsoever, especially after we falsely accused them of literal genocide. They also have no reason to believe such investigations wouldn't be rigged against them politically.

[Anachron]

Not the point being made. The point is China has no reason to comply with any US investigations on anything whatsoever, especially after we falsely accused them of literal genocide.

I wasn't aware that the WHO would have been conducting a "US investigation".

Keep going wincel, you might eventually make sense in this thread!

[uneducated]

I wasn't aware that the WHO would have been conducting a "US investigation".

Keep going wincel, you might eventually make sense in this thread!

Right the team of American funded scientists acting on behalf of the predominantly American funded organization could be expected to be completely fair to the Chinese. Unfortunately, comrade Xi did not see it that way. Too bad.

[Anachron]

Right the team of American funded scientists acting on behalf of the predominantly American funded organization could be expected to be completely fair to the Chinese. Unfortunately, comrade Xi did not see it that way. Too bad.

Keep going wincel, this looks really good on you ( and the narrative you supported, but don't anymore ).

[uneducated]

Keep going wincel, this looks really good on you ( and the narrative you supported, but don't anymore ).

Whatever dude. My position is IDK where it came from. Our country reacted like a bunch of braindead animals, and I lost all faith in it. The scientists are telling me it was natty, but with fairly low confidence. People who openly hate the Chinese are telling me it was a lab leak. *Shrug* You do you, bud. I'll keep going on whatever the best evidence I have is, and won't jump to conclusions or demonize countries without proof.

I just hope we do better next pandemic or if there is a bioweapons attack because our response to covid was awful.

[Dave22reborn]

No. My position was antivaxxers are subhuman. And also people who malign China after they gave us the sequence and told us it was airborne. They went way beyond what they would be expected to do to help.

Imagine if it WASN'T a lab leak, and the Chinese went out of their way to help us, and we reacted like this.

Those who refused the jab are subhuman? What about those who aren't up to date on their booster shots? Are they subhuman?

[Dave22reborn]

Swiss cheese model. Take precautions because the virus was airborne. Therapeutics, vaccinations, distancing, air filtration using Corsi-Rosenthal boxes, screening at entry points to country, quarantines in major affected cities early on. Sane and rational actions taken to prevent the spread and death to any airborne virus...

And yet the virus would still have spread like it did. And what about the essential workers, you gonna make them quarantine? You gonna shutdown the public busses, the subways?

[Dave22reborn]

Not the point being made. The point is China has no reason to comply with any US investigations on anything whatsoever, especially after we falsely accused them of literal genocide. They also have no reason to believe such investigations wouldn't be rigged against them politically.

The WHO is under the control of the US now?

[InPhase]

I wasn't aware that the WHO would have been conducting a "US investigation".

Keep going wincel, you might eventually make sense in this thread!

Wincel living up to his new uneducated handle. He should stick with it forever, and just add a number onto it everytime he gets banned, and has to start a new alt.

[Anachron]

Whatever dude. My position is IDK where it came from. Our country reacted like a bunch of braindead animals, and I lost all faith in it. The scientists are telling me it was natty, but with fairly low confidence. People who openly hate the Chinese are telling me it was a lab leak. *Shrug* You do you, bud. I'll keep going on whatever the best evidence I have is, and won't jump to conclusions or demonize countries without proof.

I just hope we do better next pandemic or if there is a bioweapons attack because our response to covid was awful.

The backpedaling is such a sight to see.

[frankdtank20]

Wincel living up to his new uneducated handle. He should stick with it forever, and just add a number onto it everytime he gets banned, and has to start a new alt.

He doesn't wait to get banned to start new alts.
So he'd be on 'uneducated69' by Memorial Day

[Reliance012]

Who cares if a journalist feels he was misled? That has no bearing on the truth whatsoever. The simple fact remains: there is overwhelming evidence for a zoonotic emergence.

[uneducated]

Who cares if a journalist feels he was misled? That has no bearing on the truth whatsoever. The simple fact remains: there is overwhelming evidence for a zoonotic emergence.

Zoonotic in origin, but these guys will argue that it was studied and then leaked from WIV somehow. They argue the papers are lies too. So there is no real way to convince them. But they refuse to concede they do not know either.

[Bodhy]

Who cares if a journalist feels he was misled? That has no bearing on the truth whatsoever. The simple fact remains: there is overwhelming evidence for a zoonotic emergence.

Precisely what I said ITT. A journalist makes a muh feels argument, but the evidence still all points to natural origin. Just another nothing burger.

[Reliance012]

Zoonotic in origin, but these guys will argue that it was studied and then leaked from WIV somehow.

Which is one of the problems with the lab leak “hypothesis.” It’s not a hypothesis, but a multitude of often mutually exclusive claims, always changing to bend the narrative in the face of conflicting evidence.

SC2 emerged through the wildlife trade, specifically at the Huanan Seafood market. There is no other plausible hypothesis consistent with the current body of evidence.

[uneducated]

Which is one of the problems with the lab leak “hypothesis.” It’s not a hypothesis, but a multitude of often mutually exclusive claims, always changing to bend the narrative in the face of conflicting evidence.

SC2 emerged through the wildlife trade, specifically at the Huanan Seafood market. There is no other plausible hypothesis consistent with the current body of evidence.

That's the problem when stuff like this gets politicized. They will dispute all the underlying info to where nothing could possibly convince them. I could be convinced it was a lab leak if they can show conclusive evidence it first spread from WIV somehow and that WIV was studying it. Instead, that isn't what we see. They are being unreasonable and have already made up their minds. If the intelligence agencies had proof that WIV was studying some progenitor or even the virus itself, they would have presented it.

[Reliance012]

That's the problem when stuff like this gets politicized. They will dispute all the underlying info to where nothing could possibly convince them. I could be convinced it was a lab leak if they can show conclusive evidence it first spread from WIV somehow and that WIV was studying it. Instead, that isn't what we see. They are being unreasonable and have already made up their minds. If the intelligence agencies had proof that WIV was studying some progenitor or even the virus itself, they would have presented it.

Yup. If evidence becomes available that the WIV had in its possession sc2 or a progenitor prior to 2020, I’d change my mind. But the evidence implicating the wildlife trade makes that exceedingly improbable.

[Bodhy]

That's the problem when stuff like this gets politicized. They will dispute all the underlying info to where nothing could possibly convince them. I could be convinced it was a lab leak if they can show conclusive evidence it first spread from WIV somehow and that WIV was studying it. Instead, that isn't what we see. They are being unreasonable and have already made up their minds. If the intelligence agencies had proof that WIV was studying some progenitor or even the virus itself, they would have presented it.

Yup. If evidence becomes available that the WIV had in its possession sc2 or a progenitor prior to 2020, I’d change my mind. But the evidence implicating the wildlife trade makes that exceedingly improbable.

That is the sign of scientific scruples and honesty. As James Duehr, PhD says, lab leak can be demonstrated by these criteria:

1.A bat or virus sample at WIV coming up as positive for SARS-CoV-2.

2.Phylogenetic evidence showing the Wuhan cases absolutely happened first.

3.Evidence directly indicating that they sequenced RaTG-13 much earlier than described.

4. Evidence directly indicating that Dr. Shi’s group hid or destroyed SARS-CoV-2 (+) samples.

5.Evidence that many WIV workers were sick, missing, or killed near the outbreak’s beginning.

6. A sample of purified or isolated SARS-CoV-2 in a WIV freezer that was hidden in any way.


Conversely, if you believe in lab leak and cannot think of a single piece of evidence that would convince you of natural origins, you need to think carefully about what that says about you. Are you an intellectual honesty person? What does this mean for all the other ideas you believe to be true?

[uneducated]

That is the sign of scientific scruples and honesty. As James Duehr, PhD says, lab leak can be demonstrated by these criteria:

1.A bat or virus sample at WIV coming up as positive for SARS-CoV-2.

2.Phylogenetic evidence showing the Wuhan cases absolutely happened first.

3.Evidence directly indicating that they sequenced RaTG-13 much earlier than described.

4. Evidence directly indicating that Dr. Shi’s group hid or destroyed SARS-CoV-2 (+) samples.

5.Evidence that many WIV workers were sick, missing, or killed near the outbreak’s beginning.

6. A sample of purified or isolated SARS-CoV-2 in a WIV freezer that was hidden in any way.


Conversely, if you believe in lab leak and cannot think of a single piece of evidence that would convince you of natural origins, you need to think carefully about what that says about you. Are you an intellectual honesty person? What does this mean for all the other ideas you believe to be true?

Gwg would say "Ahh, but we can't investigate WIV because China is covering everything up." And since China isn't complying, there is no way to really get that kind of evidence, which makes it perfect for a conspiracy theory, which could be, but likely isn't true. At the end of the day, we will never really know things to high levels of certainty about the origins of covid. That's where I am at. It would have helped if China had complied with the investigation fully, but I understand why they didn't.