Has "good graphics" corrupted the minds of gamers?

[Coal Man]

Agree that graphics can be part of the discussion. I think current day graphics has TAKEN OVER the discussion though.

Basically any new game that comes out, the discussion is resolution/graphics instead of whether the game is actually enjoyable or not

That's not the biggest discussion at all, only a small part of it.

The biggest discussion is that most new games are coming out in alpha stage because devs are chitting them out as fast as possible due to mismanagement and shareholder demand. Seriously, think about how many games are coming out in awful states these days? Poor optimization, bad gameplay, busted matchmaking, predatory MTX, identity politics, major bugs, and horrible graphics like textures not loading and random weird interactions are all a part of it.

When it comes to a purely graphical discussion the only game I've recently seen taking a huge chit on is Rise of Ronin and nobody would have complained about its graphics if it was a $40 game btw.

[BearyManilowe]

That's not the biggest discussion at all, only a small part of it.

The biggest discussion is that most new games are coming out in alpha stage because devs are chitting them out as fast as possible due to mismanagement and shareholder demand. Seriously, think about how many games are coming out in awful states these days? Poor optimization, bad gameplay, busted matchmaking, predatory MTX, identity politics, major bugs, and horrible graphics like textures not loading and random weird interactions are all a part of it.

When it comes to a purely graphical discussion the only game I've recently seen taking a huge chit on is Rise of Ronin and nobody would have complained about its graphics if it was a $40 game btw.

I'd say agree to disagree. Every major release is accompanied by a digital foundry side by side so performance queens can complain because the game dips to 25 FPS for 16 frames worth of gameplay.

[bongowongo]

Sounds like your sex life



I agree, but games like Ghost of Tsushima do it so much better than Ubisoft, or I am hearing Rise of the Ronin is just as bad. I think the difference in a good open-world game and a bad one is pretty significant even if it's the same basic formula followed.

I mean kindaa.

The only thing it has going for it is that how it doesnt litter your map with a ton of markers (though its still there).

The thing helping ghost of sushima is the top notch presentation, combat and how polished it is. The open world as a whole is just alright ... The guided wind for exploration is cool, but apart from that it's still the same old tropes/mechanics you get in every open world these days. Base take overs, scavenging and farming to make upgrades.

[bongowongo]

Feels like I'm going against everyone in the thread but here goes. What's wrong with having acceptable AAA graphics for the time we're in? I don't think gamers are pushing for the most AMAZING GRAFFIX EVAR! All people really want is acceptable image quality, acceptable art direction and acceptable performance for the $70-$100 price tag they're paying.

Elden Ring looked objectively worse than what could be done at the time (Demon's Souls Remake) , but people didn't complain about its graphics. Same goes for Baldur's Gate which looked weaker compared graphically.

People are mad at a few recent games because they either have weak graphics for their AAA price tag (Ronin) or have really trash image quality (Rebirth) or horrific performance issues (Dragon's Dogchit).

All people want is something that meets the bare minimums and you'd see far less complaining.

Wat. Let's be real here.


You and the rest of the 60fpscels are the only ones saying it has bad image quality. Everyone else who is fine playing at 30 fps is enjoying pristine IQ. Just because one mode is borked doesn't mean that the entire game has fallen apart, when it is very playable and a ton of people are playing it without any complaints.

As a console player, 60fps is never gonna be a standard for singleplayer games given the nature of the platform, 60fps is just the icing on the cake. If you want a 60fps bare requirement only solution is to go pc only or just wait out the gen for a pro version.

[chrsschb]

Graphics in most AAA games are actually getting worse. Plus chit animations, bugged textures, etc

Gameplay should ALWAYS be the first priority. If the game isn't fun nothing else matters. THEN worry about graphics, animations, textures, features, and god-forbid, live-service.

It also doesn't help most games these days are optimized like chit so you need a NASA super-computer to play a game that looks worse than games from 10 years ago.

[mgftp]

Makes sense you would hate the few cool users here lol

Jay, Coal, and SirFaps, everyone's favorite miscers, jlmfao, too good

I mean kindaa.

The only thing it has going for it is that how it doesnt litter your map with a ton of markers (though its still there).

The thing helping ghost of sushima is the top notch presentation, combat and how polished it is. The open world as a whole is just alright ... The guided wind for exploration is cool, but apart from that it's still the same old tropes/mechanics you get in every open world these days. Base take overs, scavenging and farming to make upgrades.

That's exactly what I mean though, in GoT I want to take over the bases, scavenge, explore, etc. Ubisoft games feel so empty and heatless, there is little incentive for me to do so, especially if I have recently played a Ubi game, it feels like exactly the same thing. And I do feel like the winds, birds, etc really help wanting to do exploration, and help with that break of immersion and checklist feeling Ubi games have.

[CrimsonSteel]

The writers in the gaming industry used to love gaming.
The writers in the gaming industry today hate gaming and gamers.
The game journalists wish they were writing for New York Times, not Kotaku or Polygon. And the story writers wish they were in Hollywood making multi-billion dollar movies.

What would you prefer, Olivia Munn and Morgan Webb essentially flirting with the audience through the camera while reporting on video games, or Frosk lecturing you about the nonexistent sexism in the Twitch comment section?

The best graphics in the world will not compensate for this paradigm. If your media was intended to be a struggle session, it'll be less enjoyable for most people, but it'll be insufferable for anyone that knows what is going on.

[Coal Man]

Wat. Let's be real here.


You and the rest of the 60fpscels are the only ones saying it has bad image quality. Everyone else who is fine playing at 30 fps is enjoying pristine IQ. Just because one mode is borked doesn't mean that the entire game has fallen apart, when it is very playable and a ton of people are playing it without any complaints.

As a console player, 60fps is never gonna be a standard for singleplayer games given the nature of the platform, 60fps is just the icing on the cake. If you want a 60fps bare requirement only solution is to go pc only or just wait out the gen for a pro version.

1. There are many people online complaining about the bad image quality in performance mode and either being forced to play in resolution or shelving it for later.

2. "As a console player, playing in 4K is never gonna be the standard for single player games given the nature of the platform. HD gaming is just the icing on the cake. If you want HD graphics bare requirement only solution is to go pc or just wait out the gen for a pro version."

See how dumb that sounds? People have 4k 120hz OLED TV's and monitors now boyo. The landscape has changed. For the entire gen, while not quite being true 4k, the standards for HD gaming have improved dramatically to the extent that we expect a resolution mode now on console. The same goes for 60fps, where 99% of games now have a performance mode. Do you think console games are gonna go backwards to 720p30fps from now on?

I get your eyes can't see a difference between 30 and 60. It doesn't bother you so you obviously don't care and think we're exaggerating but it's annoying that you dismiss others who clearly have big issues with it.

[BearyManilowe]

Just to point out, the people with 4k 120Hz TVs and monitors is still a minority of the gaming crowd.

[Coal Man]

Just to point out, the people with 4k 120Hz TVs and monitors is still a minority of the gaming crowd.

Fake news. Google is your friend.

Just to point out, 4k TV's are now 55% of TV's shipped and most console players game on TV. The 4k TV growth rate is also rapidly increasing. Of all people, console players are more likely to buy those 4k TV's for their 4k consoles.

[BearyManilowe]

Fake news. Google is your friend.

Just to point out, 4k TV's are now 55% of TV's shipped and most console players game on TV. The 4k TV growth rate is also rapidly increasing. Of all people, console players are more likely to buy those 4k TV's for their 4k consoles.

Entry level HiSense 4K TVs aren't running at 120Hz.

[OptimusTrajan]

Only poor people are still using 4k.

[JayJ350]

Jay, Coal, and SirFaps, everyone's favorite miscers, jlmfao, too good

mgftp, bongo, and beary, everyone's favorite miscers, jlmfao

[JayJ350]

The writers in the gaming industry used to love gaming.
The writers in the gaming industry today hate gaming and gamers.
The game journalists wish they were writing for New York Times, not Kotaku or Polygon. And the story writers wish they were in Hollywood making multi-billion dollar movies.

What would you prefer, Olivia Munn and Morgan Webb essentially flirting with the audience through the camera while reporting on video games, or Frosk lecturing you about the nonexistent sexism in the Twitch comment section?

The best graphics in the world will not compensate for this paradigm. If your media was intended to be a struggle session, it'll be less enjoyable for most people, but it'll be insufferable for anyone that knows what is going on.

Bingo. If someone decides they don't like you, there isn't much you can do about it, how do you keep an open mind towards someone who is dead set against you? If everyone doesn't share the same goals and values, everything devolves into tribalism.

[Coal Man]

Entry level HiSense 4K TVs aren't running at 120Hz.

Shifting goalposts boyo. 120hz was never the major discussion for console performance. Right now the topic for the standard is basic 60hz/60fps.

[JayJ350]

Shifting goalposts boyo. 120hz was never the major discussion for console performance. Right now the topic for the standard is basic 60hz/60fps.

120fps is basically an optional mode that is rarely used on today's consoles. 60fps is clearly the common goal.

[Coal Man]

120fps is basically an optional mode that is rarely used on today's consoles. 60fps is clearly the common goal.

Correct and if the PS6/Series X2 offers 4k60 for the entire gen of single player games then 99% of gamers would be overjoyed with that.

[JayJ350]

Correct and if the PS6/Series X2 offers 4k60 for the entire gen of single player games then 99% of gamers would be overjoyed with that.

Without a doubt. Console gamers aren't like PC gamers, they don't obsess over fps beyond 60.

[BearyManilowe]

Correct and if the PS6/Series X2 offers 4k60 for the entire gen of single player games then 99% of gamers would be overjoyed with that.

Tbh it's all irrelevant, the blame for the whole graphics discussion being where it is is that the generation was oversold by developers and manufacturers to begin with (PS5 shows 8K on the box, fukkin lol)

I personally still think people talk about it more than they should but at the end of the day as long as we're getting quality entries I don't put too much stock into it. Just wish the discourse in the media was more on gameplay than whether we're getting 4K/60.

[Coal Man]

Tbh it's all irrelevant, the blame for the whole graphics discussion being where it is is that the generation was oversold by developers and manufacturers to begin with (PS5 shows 8K on the box, fukkin lol)

I personally still think people talk about it more than they should but at the end of the day as long as we're getting quality entries I don't put too much stock into it. Just wish the discourse in the media was more on gameplay than whether we're getting 4K/60.

You're making up arguments to counter against. Rarely anyone brings up 8k. Most people buy 4k TV's and just want 4k60. Show me threads where people are complaining about lack of 8k?

Also, there is lots of discourse is about lack of great gameplay. You think people aren't complaining about bad writing and gameplay? It's just that if graphics don't matter at all then they should have kept selling the PS4. If you're advertising a new gen of "premium" consoles you expect people to buy into then you have to show them that their new tech is capable of something better.

It looks weird when your $70 TLOU2 on PS4 absolutely mogs the chit out of your $70 Ronin on PS5 that came out 4 years later.

[ProSaibot]

Graphics in most AAA games are actually getting worse. Plus chit animations, bugged textures, etc

Gameplay should ALWAYS be the first priority. If the game isn't fun nothing else matters. THEN worry about graphics, animations, textures, features, and god-forbid, live-service.

It also doesn't help most games these days are optimized like chit so you need a NASA super-computer to play a game that looks worse than games from 10 years ago.

Gameplay requires a good UX understanding. Most hires at modern dev companies don't know what gender they want to be, let alone have a proper understanding of other people's behavior and what stimulates them to play further.

I would say that after gameplay, it is artstyle, after that story and then graphics.

FPS is something so irrelevant for me that I never noticed the difference until some retard starts pinpointing it. Still could care less after that.
Personally I think gamers who focus on FPS first are the biggest dipshyts. They care about FPS just for the sake to sound more ''knowledgeable''.

[eod8989]

Gameplay requires a good UX understanding. Most hires at modern dev companies don't know what gender they want to be, let alone have a proper understanding of other people's behavior and what stimulates them to play further.

I would say that after gameplay, it is artstyle, after that story and then graphics.

FPS is something so irrelevant for me that I never noticed the difference until some retard starts pinpointing it. Still could care less after that.
Personally I think gamers who focus on FPS first are the biggest dipshyts. They care about FPS just for the sake to sound more ''knowledgeable''.

If you play a lot of FPS and racing games high FPS is great. If you play more open world/story games 60 fps is great. It really depends on what games you play.

[JayJ350]

You're making up arguments to counter against.

That is basically what he does around here on the regular.

Rarely anyone brings up 8k. Most people buy 4k TV's and just want 4k60. Show me threads where people are complaining about lack of 8k?

Also, there is lots of discourse is about lack of great gameplay. You think people aren't complaining about bad writing and gameplay? It's just that if graphics don't matter at all then they should have kept selling the PS4. If you're advertising a new gen of "premium" consoles you expect people to buy into then you have to show them that their new tech is capable of something better.

It looks weird when your $70 TLOU2 on PS4 absolutely mogs the chit out of your $70 Ronin on PS5 that came out 4 years later.

Yeah this is what most people are thinking, thought that would be obvious. Nobody is talking about 8K, it's basically a pointless thing. Who knows, maybe one day we will get some hardware so powerful that 8K will be a part of the discussion, but nobody is even thinking about that right now. 60-120 FPS in 4K is where all the focus is when it comes to graphics and performance these days.

[freeburn]

I don't think anyone actually thinks 8k is a thing or is asking for it, I think he was implying that it's silly af that Sony is advertising the PS5 Pro as such.

[Coal Man]

I don't think anyone actually thinks 8k is a thing or is asking for it, I think he was implying that it's silly af that Sony is advertising the PS5 Pro as such.

Link to Sony advertisement of PS5 Pro? Can't believe I fuking missed it damn

[BearyManilowe]

I don't think anyone actually thinks 8k is a thing or is asking for it, I think he was implying that it's silly af that Sony is advertising the PS5 Pro as such.

This is exactly what I was saying. The consoles were oversold and underperformed.

Link to Sony advertisement of PS5 Pro? Can't believe I fuking missed it damn

The box of the standard PS5 advertises 8K. All I was saying, I thought it was clear, is that in and of itself oversold what the system was capable of. Now we're struggling to get 4k/30 and this is the reason why graphics discussions have moved to the forefront. People saw Ghost of Tsushima and what it was able to accomplish and then manufacturers said "you think that's good? Wait til you see what's next! Look at all these Teraflops!!" And we got FF7-Rebirth and it's "blurriness" (I haven't played the game, just using the buzzword).

[freeburn]

Link to Sony advertisement of PS5 Pro? Can't believe I fuking missed it damn

I guess I should have used specific language, all the articles around it say its being advertised (for lack of a better term) with 8k support


The PS5 box also advertises it

So one could easily assume the PS5 Pro will have the same label unless somehow they are going backwards.

[Coal Man]

I guess I should have used specific language, all the articles around it say its being advertised (for lack of a better term) with 8k support

Can you post an article that says this? As far as I know Sony hasn't even announced the PS5 pro is real yet. What advertising are you talking about?

The 8k thing on the box is a standardized thing that they post. It is capable of outputting in 8k but in practical use it doesn't. Go check your Xbox box I'm 100% sure it has the same 8k thing.

[alltrapbrah]

Graphics in most AAA games are actually getting worse. Plus chit animations, bugged textures, etc

Gameplay should ALWAYS be the first priority. If the game isn't fun nothing else matters. THEN worry about graphics, animations, textures, features, and god-forbid, live-service.

It also doesn't help most games these days are optimized like chit so you need a NASA super-computer to play a game that looks worse than games from 10 years ago.

This is the correct way of viewing things. It's a matter of getting priorities right, and sadly when it comes to the Western developers, the tendency is that of graphics being the top priority and gameplay being secondary.

This is a big reason why I have a more favourable view of Eastern developers, because to them gameplay is clearly the top priority.

[BearyManilowe]

Can you post an article that says this? As far as I know Sony hasn't even announced the PS5 pro is real yet. What advertising are you talking about?

The 8k thing on the box is a standardized thing that they post. It is capable of outputting in 8k but in practical use it doesn't. Go check your Xbox box I'm 100% sure it has the same 8k thing.

This is kind of the point I'm making though, they oversold the console, so now when graphical output falls short the fanbase is (rightfully so, probably) upset.

They keep pushing Pro variants but they've barely gotten these current systems to work.