I highly doubt mainstream fat loss advice:

[Darkius]

1. Eating X grams of fat per day for testosterone:
That rule may apply to lean people trying to get their abs to show, but I doubt I or other chubbies need to eat any fat for a while. I read that the body can store the essential fatty acids. You need alpha linolenic acid to make testosterone, and the conversion is stunted by linoleic acid, the essential fatty acid you don't need a lot of. There may be intricacies not mentioned, but the point is I don't have to get fats daily. Fat soluble vitamins are stored too.
I will take a tea spoon of flaxseed oil per day, but I'm confident I have way more linoleic acid in my body than I need.
Carbohydrates are sparing of muscle. And if I spread them out, and take as much as I need for calories burned during exercise, then I don't see how I will lose muscle. I see no benefit to eating fat beyond what is naturally in the carbs.

2. You should only lose 1% of body weight per week, unless obese, in which case 1.5%:
This comes from some studies with very specific conditions where the 1% group did better. There might be validity here though if fat release is like B12 absorption, where the release of fatty acids is haa a second stage that must be recharged. I will proceed with caution. But if it is just limited per second, and must be accompanied by some glucose, then I think the solution worth trying is just to do low intensity spread throughout the day, with a bit of carbs to cover the 40% carb energy used with exercise. If I spread it out and don't go near failure, my muscles can handle a lot more volume.


To test this out, I need to go well faster than 1% per week, maybe faster than 1.5%. I'm 170 pounds right now after eating too much bread the last 4 months. A 1.6% deficit would be 1300 calories lost per day. 1% is 8xx per day. Much of that will have to come from exercise. I still need water soluble vitamins.
It is almost like the rules are based around vitamin needs and getting enough carbs.


I have some math to do. I already ate my muscles before and just recently got them back. Not again.

[Darkius]

Took me a while to do basic math. If I need to eat 1700 calories per day to be certain of getting enough micronutrients, and I want to burn at least 1100 over maintenance for the test and to get where I'm going, and my maintenance is 2000 per day without lots of exercise, and my upper body burns 100 calories at the gym each day, how much extra must I burn to hit target? Took me a while to figure out what question I was after.

1700 -2000 -100 -X = 1100
X=1100-400=700

I can pedal 50 calories every 10 minutes, so 14 ten minute sessions spread throughout the day, 10 minutes every 30 minutes.

Half of those calories will come from carbs and half from fat. So I have to eat 25 cal of carbs before each cycling maybe, spread from my 1700. Or 50 cal each hour to spare muscle.

So far it checks out.
The last question is whether my legs can handle 14 ten minute moderate pedalling sessions per day every day, just under 3 hours total, and whether my schedule handles it.

If I feel lightheaded or stop recovering or get weaker, I will know to stop. Otherwise, 1100 calories per day is well in excess of 1% my body weight per day and should be an interesting experiment. Well, 1.3%. But 2 pounds per week is fast enough for my 20 pound goal.

[Darkius]

Current waist around navel:
Sucked in: 35.5"
Relaxed normal: 39"
Weight: 170
Height: 5'8" but slouched to 5'6" over the years

Goal: 33" waist relaxed and 150 pounds, maybe 145 pounds.

I'll buy some CLA and flax oil for extra safety with testosterone.

[Horizon92]

There is no point overthinking this stuff.

The fat requirement part is simple: you want to ensure you get essential fatty acids through your diet, because your body won't provide it. When you're eating at maintenance or more, you don't need to worry about it - because you're getting at least the minimum amount through your diet without trying. When cutting, you need to be careful because you could end up not meeting the minimum requirements over a longer period of time, which could be bad for your health.

As for the "don't lose more than x percentage of body fat" advice, this is mainly because at population level the issue isn't getting people to lose weight, its to get people to lose the weight and keep it off. If people are being told to go for gung ho deficits, they will (1) likely fail the diet and (2) even if the diet succeed, they will have learned nothing about how to eat long term to actually keep the weight off long term.

In a perfect world, a person would just cut super fast and maintain muscle, then seemlessly go into maintenance / slight surplus with zero issues and achieve his or hers dream physique. But in the real world, we're being constantly challenged by real life circumstance, genetic differences, psychological and physiological factors (dopamine, emotions, ghrelin, leptin etc). For the people who has ever struggled with their weight, dieting is a skill that requires serious effort and commitment to pull off long term.

[Darkius]

I found the studies favoring 40% fat vs 20% fat for testosterone. There is only a 15% difference. And they don't say what fat sources were used. Animal fat outperformed plant fat only because likely lots of linoleic acid was in the plant fat source. They did at least spot that monounsaturated fat is the good stuff, and to avoid oxidative damage. Almonds and flax lignands are bad for testosterone, as is mint.


My goal is to replace most of the linoleic acid in my body with oleic acid. If I cut to 12%, bulk to 16%, and cut down to 12% a few times, that should purge the linoleic acid from years of corn oil and slow down my aging.

I'll take 1/2 tea spoon of flaxseed oil per day just to get my essentials. Linoleic acid is in almost everything, but seed oils have the most. I don't know if olive polyphenols boost testosterone, or if olive oil is good just because it is not polyunsaturated.

I'm still 170. But my lifts keep going up, and my belly does not feel stuffed. I'm easing into the diet. Feeling hungry, but getting around to the weighing scale.

I'll skip CLA. Just not enough backing it up, and plenty saying it does nothing. Same for MCT oil. MCT oils is better than olive oil because it acts like carbs. I'll just eat the carbs and get vitamins with them. MCT oil has no vitamins, and I have no way of knowing if it is fake.

[Darkius]

I just finished off the last of my walnuts. Turns out that bag was likely 3000 calories. So no wonder my weight has not yet dropped. Also, the testosterone study gave almonds equalling 31 grams of fat daily to 31 women with a disease. Their sex hormone binding glibilin increased 16%. Likely that is transient. But the high vitamin E and monounsaturated fat of almonds is not. So I will likely reload on them later. Maybe.

Now that those are gone, my diet is getting more for real. My legs are not sore, but I'm not yet up to 14 sets of 10 minutes.

There is a lot of nuance to testosterone production I don't know. I won't get hung up on questionsble studies. I mostly know that polyunsaturated fat should be included sparingly.

[Darkius]

https://www.slu.edu/news/2022/februa...ic-surgery.php

Bariatric surgery. This proves that losing weight directly increases testosterone, and gaining it back lowers testosterone. No mention of high fat diet.

I bet my levels stay fine as I cut. Not as good as if I were liberating oleic acid instead of linoleic acid, but good enough.

I looked at cholesterol synthesis and testosterone synthesis. Neither use any fats beyond a starting molecule that can be made from any fat. Something else is going on that is triggered by different fats.

[Darkius]

I measured my waist today. 39 inches still. I need to measure my arms and legs too maybe. I recall my arms being 12.5" a few weeks ago, so I'll just roll with that. They are very lean. Just my belly is fat.

Today, my upper body is a bit sore. I did push myself a lot yesterday, doing more than one set per muscle group with upper body. So I'm taking today off and just doing lower body today. At first I thought my reduced calories were to blame. I might stop reps further from failure, but I suspect just sticking to one set per day might be enough and let me recover.

As for calories, very easy to count. I eat 3 cans of beans, 400 calories each, plus some oatmeal and some plant protein powder, and some celery and carrots. Still not weighing everything, but safe to say I'm getting about 1600 calories per day.
For calories burned, I likely burn 2000 on off days and 2200 on lifting days, and more once I start bicycling more. My goal is gym plus eight 10 minute sessions on a bike each day to hit 2600. That would be a 1000 calorie deficit, or 2 pounds per week. 1.3% per week

I found a study of obese people with bariatric surgery, some of whom regained weight later when they ate more again maybe after reversing it. It proved that excessive body fat directly lowers testosterone independent of diet, and lowering body fat raises testosterone, unless they changed the content of their diets, which the study did not look at. I think as long as I stay away from polyunsaturated fat my testosterone levels will be fine.

[Darkius]

I weighed my veggies and googled all the calories. My oatmeal and veggies were under 200 calories before. 300 now that I doubled the oatmeal. All together my daily calories is 400+400+400+300 so 1500. So I'm at a 500-700 calorie deficit, which started a few days ago after I finished the last of the almonds.

Today I did not workout much. My plan is to listen to soreness and return to daily full body and as many short cycling sessions as I can handle without soreness or light headedness.

I wish I could know when my body is catabolizing muscle. Light headedness likely is, assuming blood glucose drop. I am noticing my brain having trouble with memory and thinking a bit. My goal is to only burn fat, though so far I doubt I burned either.

[naobuild]

I wish I could know when my body is catabolizing muscle. Light headedness likely is, assuming blood glucose drop. I am noticing my brain having trouble with memory and thinking a bit. My goal is to only burn fat, though so far I doubt I burned either.

It's important to listen to your body's signals and ensure you're nourishing it adequately to avoid muscle breakdown. Balanced mix of carbohydrates, protein, and healthy fats into your meals to support your energy levels and muscle preservation while still achieving your weight loss goals.

[consciousbud]

Today I did not workout much. My plan is to listen to soreness and return to daily full body and as many short cycling sessions as I can handle without soreness or light headedness.

Why I feel like you're stressing yourself too much haha i know this is so important to you but it's also important to have space from your weight loss journey and not stress too much. Finding distractions, like trying out games such as stake casino spiele at stakekasino.de/casinospiele, can be a great way to take a break and relax. Remember to take care of yourself both physically and mentally during your fitness journey.

[Midnightbast]

While it's important to consider individual needs and goals, it's crucial to ensure a balanced diet for overall health. Incorporating healthy fats, carbohydrates, and proteins in appropriate proportions supports optimal body function. Consulting a registered dietitian or healthcare professional can provide personalized guidance tailored to your specific needs and circumstances.

[TheIpodPeople]

1. Eating X grams of fat per day for testosterone:
That rule may apply to lean people trying to get their abs to show, but I doubt I or other chubbies need to eat any fat for a while. I read that the body can store the essential fatty acids. You need alpha linolenic acid to make testosterone, and the conversion is stunted by linoleic acid, the essential fatty acid you don't need a lot of. There may be intricacies not mentioned, but the point is I don't have to get fats daily. Fat soluble vitamins are stored too.
I will take a tea spoon of flaxseed oil per day, but I'm confident I have way more linoleic acid in my body than I need.
Carbohydrates are sparing of muscle. And if I spread them out, and take as much as I need for calories burned during exercise, then I don't see how I will lose muscle. I see no benefit to eating fat beyond what is naturally in the carbs.

2. You should only lose 1% of body weight per week, unless obese, in which case 1.5%:
This comes from some studies with very specific conditions where the 1% group did better. There might be validity here though if fat release is like B12 absorption, where the release of fatty acids is haa a second stage that must be recharged. I will proceed with caution. But if it is just limited per second, and must be accompanied by some glucose, then I think the solution worth trying is just to do low intensity spread throughout the day, with a bit of carbs to cover the 40% carb energy used with exercise. If I spread it out and don't go near failure, my muscles can handle a lot more volume.


To test this out, I need to go well faster than 1% per week, maybe faster than 1.5%. I'm 170 pounds right now after eating too much bread the last 4 months. A 1.6% deficit would be 1300 calories lost per day. 1% is 8xx per day. Much of that will have to come from exercise. I still need water soluble vitamins.
It is almost like the rules are based around vitamin needs and getting enough carbs.


I have some math to do. I already ate my muscles before and just recently got them back. Not again.

I mean, how much fat are we talking man? Have you ever considered a fast? Sounds crazy I know… but it’s actually possible to lose pounds of fat a day with minimal muscle wasting.. seriously.

How do I know this? A lot of ways. I could get deep into it, like my college years of DNP usage, or the years after when the eating disorder I had eventually morphed into a drug addiction and I went 4-5 days stimmed out without eating once every few weeks for years, (oddly enough I only ever stopped working out for 5-6 days at most during that whole time… trauma from childhood obesity will do that to you).

But regardless. I promise. You’ll get scared of muscle loss but after one day carbing up plus some creatine, betaine and citrulline, you’ll be bigger than you’ve ever looked.

I’m not glorifying drug use, that became hell and my life became incredible since changing who I was (through my behaviors). But the days without eating part (naturally)… it’s one of the best things you can do for yourself. It will change your life, and your body. I swear upon that.

Your mind, and body will thank you. No need to be scared of muscle loss. They’re not going anywhere bro.

If you’re that worried, consider low TRT. Then you can not worry as much about your diet, just eat less and workout.

[Darkius]

I mean, how much fat are we talking man? Have you ever considered a fast? Sounds crazy I know… but it’s actually possible to lose pounds of fat a day with minimal muscle wasting.. seriously.

How do I know this? A lot of ways. I could get deep into it, like my college years of DNP usage, or the years after when the eating disorder I had eventually morphed into a drug addiction and I went 4-5 days stimmed out without eating once every few weeks for years, (oddly enough I only ever stopped working out for 5-6 days at most during that whole time… trauma from childhood obesity will do that to you).

But regardless. I promise. You’ll get scared of muscle loss but after one day carbing up plus some creatine, betaine and citrulline, you’ll be bigger than you’ve ever looked.

I’m not glorifying drug use, that became hell and my life became incredible since changing who I was (through my behaviors). But the days without eating part (naturally)… it’s one of the best things you can do for yourself. It will change your life, and your body. I swear upon that.

Your mind, and body will thank you. No need to be scared of muscle loss. They’re not going anywhere bro.

If you’re that worried, consider low TRT. Then you can not worry as much about your diet, just eat less and workout.

I did a 4.5 day water fast before. My arms shrunk an inch, and my tricep pull down 20-rep weight dropped 25% and stayed down for months. I felt weak all the time on the fast. My waist stayed the same size. I now think fasts are hype. I prefer mild calorie reduction.

I considered mild TRT, but I don't know how to get it or if I even need it, or if there will be any reduction in natural production afterward.

I need to lose 20 pounds of fat. Most importantly 10 pounds to get to 20% body fat, the maximum for health. But I want 20 pounds lost to get right into the middle of the good range.

I read that above 20% body fat is moderately risky, and above 25% is highly risky healthwise. I'm maybe at 27%. I also have bad joints. So my first priority for everything needs to be losing fat. Keeping muscle is nice too, but the fat needs to go soon. I also want to burn off the linoleic acid in my body, well most of it, and replace it with oleic acid and MCTs.

Today I am 5 pounds lighter than when I started. First time the scale went that low. Likely means I have finally burned up most glycogen, though that is not really good. It means my volume of high intensity stuff needs to decrease.
I'm still getting through food temptations by drinking lots of herbal tea. My plan is to gradually transition to water for that. I also want to gradually cut back on the vegetables so my guts start to shrink more. I'll have to get used to them feeling empty.


There are claims that reducing body fat increases testosterone levels. I believe that going from 35% down to 15%. But I've not seen similar tests for 15% down to 10%. People with lower body fat percentages tend to have higher testosterone levels, but maybe the cause and effect goes the other direction. If we take someone who typically is 15%, and have them cut to 10%, would their testosterone levels go up or down? I heard multiple places it will actually go down for that person. But if I can lose weight past 15% and gain definition, I will go for it. If my lifts drop, I'll pause and then bulk with olive oil and avocados.

[Darkius]

So far, I weigh 8 pounds less than when I started, I lost 1 inch off my waist, and my arms are 0.2 inches bigger. My lifts are also 50% more than when I started, though are sort of plateauing. I look and feel better. I think I went from 27% body fat to maybe 23%. Still in the unhealthy zone, but not as bad.

I drank all my bagged tea and now just drink water. I noticed I can't resist eating all the fruit I buy on the day I buy it, so I'm cutting back on fruit. I just eat 3 cans of beans and two small bowls of oatmeal each day, all spread out as much as possible. I'll eat a tea spoon of sun flower seeds and half tea spoon of flaxseed oil when I reach 15% body fat. I doubt I need it right now. I'm just trying to provide carbs and protein throughout the day when I need it, to spare muscle.

I work all my muscle groups every day in the morning, 1 set each. I try to keep my heart rate at 65% of max, just below the level of lactic acid, so I can do more time with less soreness. I also break up my bicycling into 3 twenty minute sessions so my legs can handle more volume. I do a few 30 second sprints on the bike just to work my fast twitch muscle fibers, but not enough to over train them or burn up my glycogen early. As long as I do not go near failure, I can do more volume, which burns more calories. I'm switching to 2/3 of maximum reps and doing that twice with plenty of time in between super setting, for more volume and less strain.

I don't eat a lot of vegetables right now, but carrots and celery are cheap and low calorie. I take mineral supplements, though selenium sounds like the most important for testosterone.

If I feel hungry between meals, drinking a glass of water helps make me feel full, though if it happens too much, it likely means I forgot a meal.

I'm easing into bicycling more. I learned that level 10 wears down my hamstrings too much even if I don't notice on the day. So now I do level 9, plus the two sprints. I try to do 22 minutes before my workout and 22 afterward, and then hop on my stationary bike at least once at home for 5 songs each on YouTube. I do as much intensity as I can without feeling lactic acid. Lactic acid means I'm burning sugar, reducing glycogen, and maybe drawing from blood sugar which can lead to cortisol eating my muscles and killing my testosterone. So I stay in the fat burn zone, and only sprint enough to keep that power.

Oh, and I have plenty of energy and feel this is very sustainable.

Also, I have broken my diet 3x for a few days each, helping myself to an extra can of beans or eating all the fruit I bought within 36 hours of buying it, in addition to my prescribed foods. Each time was triggered by me feeling sore and that I had earned it. Probably harmless. But I just got back on the horse. I also learned that taste buds can never be satisfied no matter how much I eat, so I might as well stick to the planned calorie intake and just enjoy when I do eat. I also realized that over eating spikes leptin levels, and like any drug, you build a tolerance for it and then feel empty when you don't get as much. Also, bacteria in your intestines are used to getting a certain amount of each food and protest by creating bad neurotransmitters when you starve them. Both of these will return to healthy levels and sensitivities once you have been dieting long enough.

Also, I doubt you have to starve yourself to spike growth hormone. I think it is just over eating that lowers it. As for any big spikes, studies show they are temporary, same as with eating a ton of arginine. I suspect my lower calorie intake is already giving me health benefits. Why beans? Because they have lots of protein.

[zakandrews398]

Try to assemble each meal with a protein source, healthy fat source, complex carb, and vegetables. To make meal prep easier, see Healthline’s picks for the best meal delivery services for weight loss.

[Darkius]

Today, I did 3 sessions of 20 minutes at lower intensity and 2 bouts of high intensity in each, totalling 3x100 calories. I will find out how my legs feel tomorrow. I want to increase to 5x20, but will let lactic acid tell me when to back down. A bout before each meal and one after the last should do the trick.