NY AG said she is going to seize Trump assets if he doesn’t pay up

[MinisterOfLust]

Your hatred of an innocent person knows no bounds. Hopefully you face similar treatment in the future.

Trump is innocent?


Gullible you are.


Seek help if you are also a Cultist

[Seatard]

1) Trump was never charged in criminal court. He was charged in civil court, because nothing they "had" on him would hold up in criminal court. Everything listed in the document are criminal charges, not civil charges.

2) I read through the first few pages and none are evenly remotely similar to what trump was accused of doing. Ironically, #1 on the list is exactly what the biden's did with their overseas income from foreign govts... but funny enough, the fbi was more than happy to let the statute of limitations run out on that.

The criminal statutes (specifically the intent to falsify business records) were the underlying illegalities Trumpco was found to have committed with a preponderance of evidence in civil court.

You're argument is simply that civil charges somehow don't count because they they have a lower standard of proof and lower penalty.

No would would honestly argue the cases are all "the same", which is why I asked Fishman to explain his attempt to deflect to that irrelevant argument. There are a million ways to break the same law.

[Seatard]

The banks testified on behalf of trump that they did their own due diligence and were fine with the terms of the loans. In fact, trump was considered a whale client and most banks would bend over backwards to land him for current and future business.

So even if trump overvalued properties (debatable), the banks looked into it and based on their own valuation, they were more than happy with the terms of the loan.

The banks had to testify they did their due diligence. Otherwise they could be folded into the charges of conspiracy and intent to falsify business records.

[Bushmaster]

My posts are always based in fact, so of course I can.

Here's a list of cases for you to brush aside because you don't actually care about law and order or truth.

https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-cont...t-security.pdf

Ok 'tard, congrats.. Some business people in NY have been charged with crimes lol. Question though... Trump has been a businessman in NYC for ~50yrs, so why now? That brings us right back around to political witch hunt, doesn't it.

And you're ok with that.. aren't you.

The banks had to testify they did their due diligence. Otherwise they could be folded into the charges of conspiracy and intent to falsify business records.

And if the banks did their due dilligence, and they didn't have a problem loaning him monet, then what's the problem again?

[Bushmaster]

Bad loans defraud shareholders because the institution misses interest payments that would otherwise be higher...and also they take on higher risk because the loan isn't backed by the appropriate assets.

Using fraudulent means to obtain a loan and then paying off the loan on time does not mean everything is fine. It's not fine if someone embezzled money and then repaid it. The crime still occured.

Former President Trump and Deutsche Bank’s years-long symbiotic relationship came to the forefront of his New York civil fraud trial this week when top executives who once loaned the former president’s business hundreds of millions of dollars gave the most compelling defense yet in his trial.

The executives bolstered arguments Trump’s counsel has made from the start: that the bank wanted to work with the Trump Organization, did its own due diligence and found no fraud

https://thehill.com/regulation/court...alings-victim/

The bank literally said "We were not victims of fraud" GOO.

Take your meds.

[rampagefc77]

The criminal statutes (specifically the intent to falsify business records) were the underlying illegalities Trumpco was found to have committed with a preponderance of evidence in civil court.

You're argument is simply that civil charges somehow don't count because they they have a lower standard of proof and lower penalty.

No would would honestly argue the cases are all "the same", which is why I asked Fishman to explain his attempt to deflect to that irrelevant argument. There are a million ways to break the same law.

Do you agree with the judge's valuation of Mar a lago?

[rampagefc77]

The banks had to testify they did their due diligence. Otherwise they could be folded into the charges of conspiracy and intent to falsify business records.

Did they have to testify on behalf of Trump?

If they really felt that fraud occured, they could have claimed to have done their due diligence AND that they were still fooled.

[Seatard]

Ok 'tard, congrats.. Some business people in NY have been charged with crimes lol. Question though... Trump has been a businessman in NYC for ~50yrs, so why now? That brings us right back around to political witch hunt, doesn't it.

And you're ok with that.. aren't you.

"Some people have been charged with crimes lol" You're a funny little fake conservative aren't you.

And if the banks did their due dilligence, and they didn't have a problem loaning him monet, then what's the problem again?

The judge explained this in his ruling. The state legislature enacted laws to protect the integrity of business conducted in their state. I.e. it doesn't fukkin' matter what the banks think, it matters what the law says.



If Trump never ran for office would we be posting ITT? You're right, probably not. Here's what I'm okay with though, read carefully. IDGAF if it's a "witch hunt" or if other people got away with it or that it's so unfair or whatever other coping mechanism you want to focus on. What matters to me is if his business was run according to the law.

[Seatard]

Do you agree with the judge's valuation of Mar a lago?

We're veering off into area's I don't completely remember the details of. Wasn't Trump's valuation based on circumstances that could never occur because the property had restrictions on it's use?

I'd agree the county tax assessor's valuation isn't the final word.

[rampagefc77]

We're veering off into area's I don't completely remember the details of. Wasn't Trump's valuation based on circumstances that could never occur because the property had restrictions on it's use?

I'd agree the county tax assessor's valuation isn't the final word.

In a case in which trump allegedly overvalued his properties, you should be able to very clearly state what he valued them at, what you value them at, and why your valuation is the correct one.

If you can’t… then your case doesn’t exist.

Can you point to another case in NY where someone was charged with trumps crime? I’m overvaluing assets to get a loan?

[Seatard]

In a case in which trump allegedly overvalued his properties, you should be able to very clearly state what he valued them at, what you value them at, and why your valuation is the correct one.

If you can’t… then your case doesn’t exist.

Can you point to another case in NY where someone was charged with trumps crime? I’m overvaluing assets to get a loan?

It's a fair point and will be something to appeal. IMO, for both taxation and collateral valuation it should just be a direct comparison to other properties in the area or other tangible, quantitative methods.

Again, if it was just about Maralago then the whole thing is stupid. It's not tho. It's also fair to dissect each of the other claims made by the AG.


I didn't know of another case off hand, and I won't argue "it is/isn't exactly the same", but here's one from a search https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/real-...aud-conspiracy charged under a different statute when caught overvaluing assets to get a loan.

[Black03mach]

I mean Stizztard spent years trying to stop the steal and illegitimately reverse the results with mass fraud, calls to find votes, fake electors but I am sure you and the "Cyber Ninjas" feel justified even while missing a whole chromosome. Compared to all that effort and time you could say it was "curb stomped".

Lol if youre implying quoted poster has downs syndrome / is retarded it would be having an extra chromosome.... you fukin retard. Check the mirror bucko, missing an having an extra chromosome are two very different things.

Again, you are r e t a r d e d.

[rampagefc77]

It's a fair point and will be something to appeal. IMO, for both taxation and collateral valuation it should just be a direct comparison to other properties in the area or other tangible, quantitative methods.

Again, if it was just about Maralago then the whole thing is stupid. It's not tho. It's also fair to dissect each of the other claims made by the AG.


I didn't know of another case off hand, and I won't argue "it is/isn't exactly the same", but here's one from a search https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/real-...aud-conspiracy charged under a different statute when caught overvaluing assets to get a loan.

You do realize that in NY, Trump will have to pony up the entire settlement to even be allowed to appeal, correct? Which, even for someone who is rich, is not sitting in a bank account and is not easily brought to the table.

Which is the entire point of the case-- strain trump financially heading in to the election, and waste his time in the courts and on appeals so that he can't campaign.

All you have to do is look at the current president and their business dealings overseas, hiding the money through shell companies and not paying taxes... and no charges. Ya, Trump is the crook here!

Also-- if you happen to read the link you posted, the people arrested weren't arguing about the valuation of their current portfolio, but stole an identity and manufactured fake documents. See below-

In March 2019, Williamsburg of Cincinnati was acquired for $70 million. However, Drillman and his co-conspirators from Rhodium Capital Advisors utilized a stolen identity to present a lender and Fannie Mae with a purchase and sale contract for $95.85 million and other fraudulent documents. On March 8, 2019, Madison Title Agency performed two closings, one for the true $70 million sales price and another for the fraudulent $95.85 million sales price presented to the lender.

[GreatOldOne]

It's a fair point and will be something to appeal. IMO, for both taxation and collateral valuation it should just be a direct comparison to other properties in the area or other tangible, quantitative methods.

Again, if it was just about Maralago then the whole thing is stupid. It's not tho. It's also fair to dissect each of the other claims made by the AG.


I didn't know of another case off hand, and I won't argue "it is/isn't exactly the same", but here's one from a search https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/real-...aud-conspiracy charged under a different statute when caught overvaluing assets to get a loan.

Even regarding Mar a Lago Trump was unable to show his evaluation was reasonable. In court, he was arguing it was worth up to a billion.

However, the property has restrictions which would make it very hard to sell. He earlier complained that the property was a white elephant.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...a-67644052.amp

The reality of Mar-a-Lago's value is not straightforward. The historic Palm Beach property has deed restrictions which mean it can only be used as a private club.

The land cannot be subdivided, and it requires considerable preservation expenses for the estate, which was built in 1927 for businesswoman and socialite Marjorie Merriweather Post.

This deed came about in the 1990s when Mr Trump said Mar-a-Lago was too expensive to be preserved as a private residence, calling it a "white elephant" that was "almost impossible to sell".

Ms Clarke explained that the value is based on profits of the club and "not the value of the land

...

So, it's not true that kings and celebrities would be lining up to buy an amazing personal home. It can no longer be used that way.

The value is now based on the profits of the club. Not the absolute value of the property as if it had no restrictions...which is a major reason why Trump is unable to provide evidence of its current value.

[OPGenesis]

Even regarding Mar a Lago Trump was unable to show his evaluation was reasonable. In court, he was arguing it was worth up to a billion.

However, the property has restrictions which would make it very hard to sell. He earlier complained that the property was a white elephant.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...a-67644052.amp

The reality of Mar-a-Lago's value is not straightforward. The historic Palm Beach property has deed restrictions which mean it can only be used as a private club.

The land cannot be subdivided, and it requires considerable preservation expenses for the estate, which was built in 1927 for businesswoman and socialite Marjorie Merriweather Post.

This deed came about in the 1990s when Mr Trump said Mar-a-Lago was too expensive to be preserved as a private residence, calling it a "white elephant" that was "almost impossible to sell".

Ms Clarke explained that the value is based on profits of the club and "not the value of the land

...

So, it's not true that kings and celebrities would be lining up to buy an amazing personal home. It can no longer be used that way.

The value is now based on the profits of the club. Not the absolute value of the property as if it had no restrictions...which is a major reason why Trump is unable to provide evidence of its current value.

Repped.

Thank you for explaining the nuances of this.


What the judge ruled makes more sense when you break down the details.

[Mckay23]

Bad loans defraud shareholders because the institution misses interest payments that would otherwise be higher...and also they take on higher risk because the loan isn't backed by the appropriate assets.

Using fraudulent means to obtain a loan and then paying off the loan on time does not mean everything is fine. It's not fine if someone embezzled money and then repaid it. The crime still occured.

Any source about these defrauded shareholders and their losses? Why isn't that info readily available unlike most fraud such as this one:

USSS identified more than 50 victim-investors from across the country who provided capital to Vika between Jan. 2020 and Dec. 2021, including two victims in the Middle District of Georgia. A review of bank records for Vika’s investor account showed that identified victim-investors paid Vika approximately $5,958,505 for the purchase of pre-IPO shares of select private companies, but none received their promised shares.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdga/pr...ion-dollar-pre

[GreatOldOne]

Repped.

Thank you for explaining the nuances of this.


What the judge ruled makes more sense when you break down the details.

It seems like he would be able to turn his property into something much more valuable to sell...but that's not what he currently has. He converted it because the maintenance is extremely high and he needs the membership fees to pay for its upkeep.

If he converted it back it might sell for much more, but unless he actually went to sell it he'd immediately start losing a lot of money preserving it.

Anyway, your assets for a loan are what you have.

Not what you might have.

[GreatOldOne]

Any source about these defrauded shareholders and their losses? Why isn't that info readily available unlike most fraud such as this one:

If Trump put up less collateral then the interest rates would become higher to cover risk. That's not complicated.

[Seatard]

Even regarding Mar a Lago Trump was unable to show his evaluation was reasonable. In court, he was arguing it was worth up to a billion.

However, the property has restrictions which would make it very hard to sell. He earlier complained that the property was a white elephant.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...a-67644052.amp

The reality of Mar-a-Lago's value is not straightforward. The historic Palm Beach property has deed restrictions which mean it can only be used as a private club.

The land cannot be subdivided, and it requires considerable preservation expenses for the estate, which was built in 1927 for businesswoman and socialite Marjorie Merriweather Post.

This deed came about in the 1990s when Mr Trump said Mar-a-Lago was too expensive to be preserved as a private residence, calling it a "white elephant" that was "almost impossible to sell".

Ms Clarke explained that the value is based on profits of the club and "not the value of the land

...

So, it's not true that kings and celebrities would be lining up to buy an amazing personal home. It can no longer be used that way.

The value is now based on the profits of the club. Not the absolute value of the property as if it had no restrictions...which is a major reason why Trump is unable to provide evidence of its current value.

It’s somewhat of a unique situation and am personally okay with putting it aside as an outlier and looking at the bigger picture.

Deed restrictions can change, so there is a valid argument that the property has another value other than the method the county chose to use to value it as a private club.

Is it worth a billion cause it smells like old rich people? Nah, but it has an intrinsic value somewhere in the middle.

[Stizzel]

Even regarding Mar a Lago Trump was unable to show his evaluation was reasonable. In court, he was arguing it was worth up to a billion.

However, the property has restrictions which would make it very hard to sell. He earlier complained that the property was a white elephant.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...a-67644052.amp

The reality of Mar-a-Lago's value is not straightforward. The historic Palm Beach property has deed restrictions which mean it can only be used as a private club.

The land cannot be subdivided, and it requires considerable preservation expenses for the estate, which was built in 1927 for businesswoman and socialite Marjorie Merriweather Post.

This deed came about in the 1990s when Mr Trump said Mar-a-Lago was too expensive to be preserved as a private residence, calling it a "white elephant" that was "almost impossible to sell".

Ms Clarke explained that the value is based on profits of the club and "not the value of the land

...

So, it's not true that kings and celebrities would be lining up to buy an amazing personal home. It can no longer be used that way.

The value is now based on the profits of the club. Not the absolute value of the property as if it had no restrictions...which is a major reason why Trump is unable to provide evidence of its current value.

There are a lot of rare materials and custom construction which is why the original construction cost when adjusted for inflation was more than that claimed value.

That aside, what you low iq conmies dont understand is that value is subjective. Even in a typical real estate market appraisers find value by looking at comparables. Comps are literally nothing more than party a and party b adjusting their opinions to a mutually agreed upon figure.

This is why the bank doesnt take trumps word for it. They have their own methods in place to determine value.

You seem to think that some bureaucrat can just decide that they're both wrong and then make it a crime to boot.

Very stupid and very evil

[Mckay23]

If Trump put up less collateral then the interest rates would become higher to cover risk. That's not complicated.

That's not an answer. Again, who are these defrauded shareholders and what were their losses?

[Bushmaster]

"Some people have been charged with crimes lol" You're a funny little fake conservative aren't you.

You caught that, huh.. That was my homage to our little raghead girlfriend in Minnesota who said "some people did some things" on 9/11. Clever right?

If Trump never ran for office would we be posting ITT? You're right, probably not.

Gee, ya think? WTF kind of window licking, bicycle helmet wearing, extra chromosome having 'tard "logic" is that?

Here's what I'm okay with though, read carefully. IDGAF if it's a "witch hunt" or if other people got away with it or that it's so unfair or whatever other coping mechanism you want to focus on. What matters to me is if his business was run according to the law.

Maybe you don't fully understand the meaning of "witch hunt" 'tard, but the cliff notes version is they're not cool. Our country, our government, and our judicial system was created specifically for that reason because it's what separates us from 3rd world banana republics where "the government" can go after a person simply because the politician du jour doesn't like them.

Also, your seething hatred of Trump has blinded you to the fact that witch hunts can work both ways bro. After all, it is YOUR team who constantly queefs about "Threat to democracy," is it not? Careful what you wish for 'tard because, Potato Joe won't be around forever.. Somebody else will come along, and they might not like you.

So if you libs are serious about your sacred "democracy," then you should be very concerned about this 'tard. And not just celebrating it because orange man bad.

And no 'tard, you really don't give AF about how his business was run. None of you did - for 50 years, not a single one of you gave AF. And you know it.

[Bushmaster]

If Trump put up less collateral then the interest rates would become higher to cover risk. That's not complicated.

That's up to the bank GOO.

24/7/365, the bank is who decides what's what for ANY given borrower.

And you apparently didn't learn anything from your 2015-2016 Trump rampages... It didn't end well for you, and this won't either if you don't get hold of your demented self.

[Seatard]

You caught that, huh.. That was my homage to our little raghead girlfriend in Minnesota who said "some people did some things" on 9/11. Clever right?



Gee, ya think? WTF kind of window licking, bicycle helmet wearing, extra chromosome having 'tard "logic" is that?



Maybe you don't fully understand the meaning of "witch hunt" 'tard, but the cliff notes version is they're not cool. Our country, our government, and our judicial system was created specifically for that reason because it's what separates us from 3rd world banana republics where "the government" can go after a person simply because the politician du jour doesn't like them.

Also, your seething hatred of Trump has blinded you to the fact that witch hunts can work both ways bro. After all, it is YOUR team who constantly queefs about "Threat to democracy," is it not? Careful what you wish for 'tard... Potato Joe won't be around forever.. Somebody else will come along, and they might not like you.

So if you libs are serious about your sacred "democracy," then you should be very concerned about this 'tard. And not just celebrating it because orange man bad.

And no 'tard, you really don't give AF about how his business was run. None of you did - for 50 years, not a single one of you gave AF - and you know it.

You're a big jerk.

Going off on your usual rant about queefing teams falls flat when I'm in the thread conceding points and giving Trumpco the benefit of the doubt on a few things. Like with Russia and Covid and the election I'm willing to entertain any points of view, but bring convincing evidence. The government took a stance and gave one side of an opinion over Trump's business dealings, but they didn't fabricate the underlying circumstances. There is actual evidence of shady chit going on, so let's talk about who is being blinded by the warm glow of the orange man.

And again, you're right. Not many outside NYC gave a fuk about Trump in the past. From what I remember he was seen as a bit of a joke who gamed the system, but also as an entertainer who could take a joke.

Also, I kick people off my team if I think they are fukking around.

[Seatard]

24/7/365, the bank is who decides what's what for ANY given borrower.

Banks are regulated and locked down when loaning out our fake money, especially after 2008 when they nearly destroyed all of humanity with the belief that they, and they alone got to decide what's what for any given borrower.

[rampagefc77]

Banks are regulated and locked down, especially after 2008 when they nearly destroyed all of humanity with the belief that they, and they alone got to decide what's what for any given borrower.

That was more the govts fault than the banks.

[OPGenesis]

That was more the govts fault than the banks.

Typical cuckservative thinking. Never the banks lol.

[Bushmaster]

You're a big jerk.

Ok.. I never said I wasn't the forum ass hole. I LMAO'd when Trump put GOO into a mental institution, and I will LMAO when Sillie is in one too. Beside the point though..

but bring convincing evidence. The government took a stance and gave one side of an opinion over Trump's business dealings, but they didn't fabricate the underlying circumstances. There is actual evidence of shady chit going on,

Lol what shady **** 'tard? A businessman fudged a number or two... BFD, it happens - and the banks in question that he borrowed from didn't even find a single fuk to give..

But you either unleash "the government" against everybody who does it in the sacred name of precious democracy - or else admit this is nothing but political.

And if you admit it's political - and still don't care, then I'm thinking a repeat of basic High School civics is in order. Because like I said 'tard... witch hunts can work both ways.

[squanto]

Another thread full of Trumpy troglodyte posts about how the Attonery General is wrong, but fat indcited rapist Trump is OF COURSE the victim and the republikkkarens want to talk to the manager at the Law Store.

But just say the word "border" and all these MAGA/groomer queens will instantly talk about how important law and order is.

[GreatOldOne]

That's not an answer. Again, who are these defrauded shareholders and what were their losses?

Um...shareholders of the bank?

The loss of profit is the higher rate he would have had to pay for the loan.

Anything that affects the profits of the bank affects the shareholders. It's not a defense of fraud that you don't find a loss of profit significant. That's not how the law sees it.