Advanced Lifter Requires Workout Plan Advice

[megon12]

Hey everyone, I've been bodybuilding for 12+ years now and I've been using the same workout plan for nearly as long which is my own take on Jim Stoppani's Shortcut to Size. Usually staying in the gym for around 2 hours, taking my time to get every little bit out of my workout and going 4 days a week. Doing Chest/Tri -> Back/Bi -> Shoulders/Smaller muscle groups -> Legs. Now I'm wondering if maybe I need to specialize more towards hypertrophy and change my workout plan to fit my need to get larger. I rather like my long training sessions and I get a bit disheartened when I see a lot of training plans suggesting only 4-5 exercises per plan. What do ye think? What should I do?

[coachcalande]

Do what makes you happy with your training.

Use your instincts at this point.

[megon12]

Do what makes you happy with your training.

Use your instincts at this point.

I am, and I will continue doing so! I just want to be efficient and not waste training. Like for example, every week I change my rep range i.e. 1st: 12-15, 2nd: 9-11, 3rd: 6-8, 4th: 2-5. In an attempt to balance my strength and size, but if I'm focusing on size, should I just cut out the 3rd and 4th weeks and only focus on higher reps for hypertrophy?

[radrd]

It sounds like you answered your own question. If your goal is to put on mass and your current program isn't accomplishing that, then you need to change your program. Of course, with 12 years of training, you know that nutrition is also going to play a critical role in whether you can get bigger.

If you like your current program, you could always start eating in a surplus for a while and see what happens without changing your program. If you already did that and you didn't see positive changes, then you definitely need to change your program.

[air2fakie]

Now I'm wondering if maybe I need to specialize more towards hypertrophy and change my workout plan to fit my need to get larger.

12 years of “Shortcut to Size” wasn’t focused on hypertrophy and getting larger? Say it ain’t so!

[coachcalande]

I am, and I will continue doing so! I just want to be efficient and not waste training. Like for example, every week I change my rep range i.e. 1st: 12-15, 2nd: 9-11, 3rd: 6-8, 4th: 2-5. In an attempt to balance my strength and size, but if I'm focusing on size, should I just cut out the 3rd and 4th weeks and only focus on higher reps for hypertrophy?

None of it makes you smaller.

What matters is that you show up and work hard for decades. You will grow from all of it and all of it will make you stronger.

Carry sets close to failure, Maximize each set to be efficient. Train instinctively, some days you’ll have *it* to go heavy and other days your mind will seek higher reps.

All of that said, the first thing I’d address in your programming is frequency. Perhaps hitting muscle groups only 1 x a week isn’t enough. Try 2x per 8 days.

[megon12]

12 years of “Shortcut to Size” wasn’t focused on hypertrophy and getting larger? Say it ain’t so!

Hahaha don't worry it worked well up to now, I have gained some serious mass and it's been fantastic. I even gained 20 inch arms in the process! There just a few things in it that contradict the "size" part. Like why have the low rep weeks if they only help with strength gains more than anything

[air2fakie]

Hahaha don't worry it worked well up to now, I have gained some serious mass and it's been fantastic. I even gained 20 inch arms in the process! There just a few things in it that contradict the "size" part. Like why have the low rep weeks if they only help with strength gains more than anything

What are your body stats and big lift numbers? That might give some context for useful advice.

[megon12]

What are your body stats and big lift numbers? That might give some context for useful advice.

I'm 120kg, 27 years old, 6'0ft and around 25-27% body fat.
As for my lifts, I can do 2-3 reps of 140kg, but I generally have a bad time with legs as I've had a lot of injuries on them so I don't tend to higher on them.

[air2fakie]

I'm 120kg, 27 years old, 6'0ft and around 25-27% body fat.
As for my lifts, I can do 2-3 reps of 140kg, but I generally have a bad time with legs as I've had a lot of injuries on them so I don't tend to higher on them.

I’d suggest you do whatever you think is best if you consider yourself to be advanced. My feedback won’t be what you’re looking for.

[radrd]

I'm 120kg, 27 years old, 6'0ft and around 25-27% body fat.
As for my lifts, I can do 2-3 reps of 140kg, but I generally have a bad time with legs as I've had a lot of injuries on them so I don't tend to higher on them.

Honestly, at that weight and bodyfat level with a history of leg injuries, it sounds more like you should focus on getting healthy than training for hypertrophy. You're carrying a lot of fat already. Shedding 5 or 10% would be my goal.

[TolerantLactose]

Hey everyone, I've been bodybuilding for 12+ years now and I've been using the same workout plan for nearly as long which is my own take on Jim Stoppani's Shortcut to Size. Usually staying in the gym for around 2 hours, taking my time to get every little bit out of my workout and going 4 days a week. Doing Chest/Tri -> Back/Bi -> Shoulders/Smaller muscle groups -> Legs. Now I'm wondering if maybe I need to specialize more towards hypertrophy and change my workout plan to fit my need to get larger. I rather like my long training sessions and I get a bit disheartened when I see a lot of training plans suggesting only 4-5 exercises per plan. What do ye think? What should I do?

Advanced lifters wouldn't even glance at cookie cutter programs.

[CommitmentRulz]

Honestly, at that weight and bodyfat level with a history of leg injuries, it sounds more like you should focus on getting healthy than training for hypertrophy. You're carrying a lot of fat already. Shedding 5 or 10% would be my goal.

This. Your 20" arms don't have a much muscle as you'd like to think.

Now, if you're only going for size, and don't care how much of that 'size' is fat...

[Camarija]

12 years of “Shortcut to Size” wasn’t focused on hypertrophy and getting larger? Say it ain’t so!

If this is true, OP, you can probably just run a novice program and have the best gains of your life

I'm 120kg, 27 years old, 6'0ft and around 25-27% body fat.
As for my lifts, I can do 2-3 reps of 140kg, but I generally have a bad time with legs as I've had a lot of injuries on them so I don't tend to higher on them.

Yeah, you should probably drop 34 kg and go from there, no more than 1% bodyweight a week.

Here you go:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=173439001

Also, for carrying that much weight and fat you're still only in the late novice stage, you should run an actual novice program and then an intermediate program.

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=162916931

The good news is you're still young and can still break out of the beginner stages if you follow a real program

[TAWS6]

Def Diet down to 12-15 percent.
Up your training frequency to twice per week.
Train harder, less pump and fluff. 2 hours in the gym without a drop in intensity is impossible. My lifts are fairly advanced and I’m never in the gym over 1.5 hours.

[SuicideGripMe]

Y3T.... PHAT.... FST-7.... There are a lot of options in terms of high volume protocols that produce results (Y3T and FST-7 seem to be the most popular with pro's and enhanced lifters though).

[megon12]

Y3T.... PHAT.... FST-7.... There are a lot of options in terms of high volume protocols that produce results (Y3T and FST-7 seem to be the most popular with pro's and enhanced lifters though).

Thanks man, I'll look into those. Looking forward to trying a new routine compared to my old one.

[megon12]

If this is true, OP, you can probably just run a novice program and have the best gains of your life

Yeah, you should probably drop 34 kg and go from there, no more than 1% bodyweight a week.

Also, for carrying that much weight and fat you're still only in the late novice stage, you should run an actual novice program and then an intermediate program.

The good news is you're still young and can still break out of the beginner stages if you follow a real program

I'm not interested in low BF percentages, I'm not about that aesthetic stuff. I'm just interested in intense workouts to stimulate my muscles and continue growing. Novice programs I've tried in the past haven't really done it for me. Funny enough "Shortcut to Size" as much as a stupid title as it is, the program is brutal and got me up to 140kg bench easily with continued growth. My only fear is that I have to specialize between size or strength, as aiming for both is counter productive at this stage of my training.

[air2fakie]

I'm not interested in low BF percentages, I'm not about that aesthetic stuff. I'm just interested in intense workouts to stimulate my muscles and continue growing. Novice programs I've tried in the past haven't really done it for me. Funny enough "Shortcut to Size" as much as a stupid title as it is, the program is brutal and got me up to 140kg bench easily with continued growth. My only fear is that I have to specialize between size or strength, as aiming for both is counter productive at this stage of my training.

What the gentleman above was getting at - a 300 lb bench @ 265 lb bw is pretty weak. Your size = fat, and strength = relatively weak. Not trying to knock you, it's just hard to give advice to someone without an objective perspective on what is "advanced".

That being said, if looking big and seeming strong is fine by you, there's not much you need to change about what you're doing.

You could literally get those #s by doing any program for 12 years and gaining bodyweight up to 265 lbs. Someone who's 150 lbs could get those numbers by doing good programming and putting in a good effort for 1-2 years.

[paulinkansas]

What the gentleman above was getting at - a 300 lb bench @ 265 lb bw is pretty weak.

I could do 295 lb bench at a 165 lb bw when I was in my 20's. Now I'm just a feeble 56 year old guy.

[radrd]

I'm not interested in low BF percentages, I'm not about that aesthetic stuff. I'm just interested in intense workouts to stimulate my muscles and continue growing. Novice programs I've tried in the past haven't really done it for me. Funny enough "Shortcut to Size" as much as a stupid title as it is, the program is brutal and got me up to 140kg bench easily with continued growth. My only fear is that I have to specialize between size or strength, as aiming for both is counter productive at this stage of my training.

I find it interesting that you characterize yourself as a bodybuilder yet you have no interest in developing impressive physique. What is your goal?

You're already carrying too much fat, so if I were you, I would try to maintain strength while cutting down to a healthy bodyfat percentage. You can reevaluate once you get there. Not talking aesthetics or low BF. Just healthy. If nothing else, your injured legs will thank you when you aren't subjecting them to carrying around as much weight.

[megon12]

I find it interesting that you characterize yourself as a bodybuilder yet you have no interest in developing impressive physique. What is your goal?

You're already carrying too much fat, so if I were you, I would try to maintain strength while cutting down to a healthy bodyfat percentage. You can reevaluate once you get there. Not talking aesthetics or low BF. Just healthy. If nothing else, your injured legs will thank you when you aren't subjecting them to carrying around as much weight.

In the title I referred to myself as a lifter. I don't aim for classic bodybuilding physique it doesn't interest me, I'm just lifting because I enjoy it and want to get larger with time. No need to worry about my weight, I will take care of that myself. Just looking for workout plan advice.

[coachcalande]

In the title I referred to myself as a lifter. I don't aim for classic bodybuilding physique it doesn't interest me, I'm just lifting because I enjoy it and want to get larger with time. No need to worry about my weight, I will take care of that myself. Just looking for workout plan advice.

Lol you have to understand just how fat phobic folks are- There are a few diet Nazis on this forum that have full blown eating disorders to go with their narcissism.

Gaining size is simple. Eat enough and train heavy enough, hard enough, with enough rest and you’ll pack on size. It’s always crazy to me how these guys think everything in life revolves around six pack abs which in my experience are overrated.

I’ll go back to my own suggestions that you hit each muscle group with greater frequency. Once a week is too erratic because when life gets in the way it becomes 1x a month. That means no GAINZ.

[TolerantLactose]

fat phobic folks

Last time I saw an overweight guy, I blacked out. The next thing I knew, a first-responder was talking me down the Smith machine.

[megon12]

Lol you have to understand just how fat phobic folks are- There are a few diet Nazis on this forum that have full blown eating disorders to go with their narcissism.

Gaining size is simple. Eat enough and train heavy enough, hard enough, with enough rest and you’ll pack on size. It’s always crazy to me how these guys think everything in life revolves around six pack abs which in my experience are overrated.

I’ll go back to my own suggestions that you hit each muscle group with greater frequency. Once a week is too erratic because when life gets in the way it becomes 1x a month. That means no GAINZ.

Haha no worries I know, I'm aware how it is in the bodybuilding community! I just tend to avoid forums and stuff like this, but I really wanted some input on my routine.

I read earlier about your suggestion and I REALLY want to do that, but how would I go about hitting all muscle groups twice? As of now my training consists of 4 days. Would I hit ALL my muscle groups twice a week, or just specific ones? Thinking about it, my only idea would be overloading my last day (leg day) with 2 exercises for each muscle group, but that sounds terrifying and verging on overtraining. What do you think?

[coachcalande]

Haha no worries I know, I'm aware how it is in the bodybuilding community! I just tend to avoid forums and stuff like this, but I really wanted some input on my routine.

I read earlier about your suggestion and I REALLY want to do that, but how would I go about hitting all muscle groups twice? As of now my training consists of 4 days. Would I hit ALL my muscle groups twice a week, or just specific ones? Thinking about it, my only idea would be overloading my last day (leg day) with 2 exercises for each muscle group, but that sounds terrifying and verging on overtraining. What do you think?

Example
Monday and Thursday - chest/back, shoulders
Tuesday and Friday - Legs, bis/tris


Example 2
Monday and Thursday - chest/ shoulders/tris
Tuesday and Friday - legs/back/bis

Keep sets per workout to about 6-8 per muscle group.

These are somewhat typical intermediate or off season splits

[megon12]

Example
Monday and Thursday - chest/back, shoulders
Tuesday and Friday - Legs, bis/tris


Example 2
Monday and Thursday - chest/ shoulders/tris
Tuesday and Friday - legs/back/bis

Keep sets per workout to about 6-8 per muscle group.

These are somewhat typical intermediate or off season splits

Second example sounds perfect to me, I'll try to make that work for a couple months and see how it feels. Cheers for that!

[radrd]

Lol you have to understand just how fat phobic folks are- There are a few diet Nazis on this forum that have full blown eating disorders to go with their narcissism.

Gaining size is simple. Eat enough and train heavy enough, hard enough, with enough rest and you’ll pack on size. It’s always crazy to me how these guys think everything in life revolves around six pack abs which in my experience are overrated.

I’ll go back to my own suggestions that you hit each muscle group with greater frequency. Once a week is too erratic because when life gets in the way it becomes 1x a month. That means no GAINZ.

Weird how the majority of people on a bodybuilding forum would prioritize having low bodyfat percentage when that's one of the defining characteristics of the sport. Though in 2024, there is probably a winner for having the worst body as well. They probably call it "Men's Modern Physique" AKA "Dad Bod."

[coachcalande]

Weird how the majority of people on a bodybuilding forum would prioritize having low bodyfat percentage when that's one of the defining characteristics of the sport. Though in 2024, there is probably a winner for having the worst body as well. They probably call it "Men's Modern Physique" AKA "Dad Bod."

Not everyone has the same goals. It’s that simple. Plenty of guys are happy eating pizza, fries, having a few beers and talking “how much ya bench?” Building muscle and strength is also part of bodybuilding. Building a brotherhood is also part of the iron culture.

There was a time when you could go to some bars that actually had deadlift platforms, squat racks and benches with some rusty plates to dabble with while drinking a pitcher.

Bodybuilding forums unfortunately are often tainted by men judging other men on their physique and body fat% , body fat shaming instead of applauding their size and strength. Some of us are not out to be visually appealing to other men.

I’ll give you a real life example on this forum:

I hit a 400 pound bench and was repping 495 deads after rebuilding my knee twice…as a natural lifter in my late 40s, 4 kids, two jobs and a side business…but body fat % is what mattered to some tools ha ha. Sorry man, this guy made it clear he wants size and strength and doesn’t care about his weight…folks should respect HIS GOALS. See my point?

[TAWS6]

Imo the problem is that once you go over 20 percent as a male it is very difficult to determine what’s fat and muscle. Shortly after most men get the gut as they get closer to 25 percent and enter an unhealthy zone. My bloodwork wasn’t great at a higher bf..The whole point of this is to be healthy. I really don’t think 12-15 percent is an extreme. It certainly isn’t shredded. Contest lean is a whole other game which is also unhealthy (4-8%). So yeah, taking the middle ground here

And IN before someone says 12-15 percent is dad bod lmao