Struggling with pull ups

[bvbellomo]

I've always struggled with pull ups, some of this is I need to lose weight. I don't do chin ups, I find them harder, and they hurt my elbows. While I've done as many as 8 strict pull ups in a set, I've mostly been doing 4 sets of 2 reps, and haven't made much progress. For comparison, I've benched 12 reps of 225.

What are the differences between different grips? Neutral grip (palms facing each other) is easiest for me, and what I can find on the Internet seems to conflict about which muscles they work. I believe neutrals work biceps more and narrow grip works lats more, with wide grip being in the middle of the two.

If all I do is bench and neutral grip pull ups (I don't but it simplifies the question) can I have a balanced physique? Or will I be working my biceps too much and my lats too little?

[air2fakie]

yes

[paulinkansas]

no.

[radrd]

Yes

[TolerantLactose]

No, dagnabbit.

[Horizon92]

I've always struggled with pull ups, some of this is I need to lose weight. I don't do chin ups, I find them harder, and they hurt my elbows. While I've done as many as 8 strict pull ups in a set, I've mostly been doing 4 sets of 2 reps, and haven't made much progress. For comparison, I've benched 12 reps of 225.

What are the differences between different grips? Neutral grip (palms facing each other) is easiest for me, and what I can find on the Internet seems to conflict about which muscles they work. I believe neutrals work biceps more and narrow grip works lats more, with wide grip being in the middle of the two.

If all I do is bench and neutral grip pull ups (I don't but it simplifies the question) can I have a balanced physique? Or will I be working my biceps too much and my lats too little?

Bench won't develop your lats or biceps in any meaningful way.

Neutral grip pullups could be sufficient for your lats. Biceps? More borderline case I think.

Beyond losing weight (which won't make you stronger at pullups, it will just decrease the resistance), what you should do is do assisted pullups with bands or a machine and supplement with pulldowns. On top of that you should do bicep isolation exercises. You need to strengthen the muscles used in the pullup to become stronger at the lift. I would advice doing something like pullups (either assisted or not) > pulldowns for higher reps per set and then a bicep isolation exercise like a standing ez bar curl.

[SuicideGripMe]

If all I do is bench and neutral grip pull ups (I don't but it simplifies the question) can I have a balanced physique? Or will I be working my biceps too much and my lats too little?

But why would anyone do this....? No offense OP, but how did you come to bench 225 for 12 reps but don't know anything about programming?

You should just hop on a proven program and not stress about this issue.

[GrouchyUSMC]

I've always struggled with pull ups, some of this is I need to lose weight. I don't do chin ups, I find them harder, and they hurt my elbows. While I've done as many as 8 strict pull ups in a set, I've mostly been doing 4 sets of 2 reps, and haven't made much progress. For comparison, I've benched 12 reps of 225.

What are the differences between different grips? Neutral grip (palms facing each other) is easiest for me, and what I can find on the Internet seems to conflict about which muscles they work. I believe neutrals work biceps more and narrow grip works lats more, with wide grip being in the middle of the two.

If all I do is bench and neutral grip pull ups (I don't but it simplifies the question) can I have a balanced physique? Or will I be working my biceps too much and my lats too little?

How often do you currently do pull-ups? One of the big boosts to pull up numbers is simply getting more volume in.

[bvbellomo]

But why would anyone do this....? No offense OP, but how did you come to bench 225 for 12 reps but don't know anything about programming?

You should just hop on a proven program and not stress about this issue.

How do you know I don't know anything about programming? Lots of proven programs don't have any pull ups at all.

[air2fakie]

How do you know I don't know anything about programming? Lots of proven programs don't have any pull ups at all.

So why did you pick pull-ups as one of the only 2 exercises you want to do in order to achieve a balanced physique, particularly when - for all practical purposes - you can barely do any?

[TolerantLactose]

How do you know I don't know anything about programming? Lots of proven programs don't have any pull ups at all.

Your ridiculous example of pullups and bench only for a balanced physique doesn't simplify the question. It makes you look like you don't know what you're doing.

[GeneralSerpant]

Your form sounds rather off if chin-ups are the hardest. Neutral grip is actually a bit of an arm grind, so you’re right about that.

It sounds like you’re not incorporating your back enough. Do you retract your scapulae before ascending from a deadhang?

[bvbellomo]

So why did you pick pull-ups as one of the only 2 exercises you want to do in order to achieve a balanced physique, particularly when - for all practical purposes - you can barely do any?

Because I want to get good (or at least better) at pull ups. I can't ask if neutral grip pull ups alone will give me a balanced physique - they don't do much for pecs and triceps. But just 2 exercises, bench + neutral grip pull ups should hit every upper body muscle. Obviously things like rear delts and such are underutilized, but I thought that would be enough for people to understand what I am asking.

Right now, I am doing a mix of wide and narrow grip pull ups (not very many) and curls and I'd like to swap both these out for neutral grip pull ups to try to progress past 8 reps. But if these hit my biceps a lot more than my back, or just 1 head of the biceps, or only part of my back, then I need to add something else.

[bvbellomo]

Your form sounds rather off if chin-ups are the hardest. Neutral grip is actually a bit of an arm grind, so you’re right about that.

It sounds like you’re not incorporating your back enough. Do you retract your scapulae before ascending from a deadhang?

I don't think the issue is my back or my form, wouldn't that also make pull ups harder?

I haven't done a lot of chin-ups or barbell overhead pressing, but the issue is my weird elbows. They feel funny, and while I've never had an injury, I've never really pushed it. For barbell overhead press, the substitution is obvious - dumbbells. The only reason to consider chins (that I am aware of) is people find them easier to build up volume than pull ups. Few people I know do neutral grip pull ups.

If neutral grips are more arm then back exercises, then maybe a mix of neutral grip and regular pull ups and no curls would work best for me.

[air2fakie]

But just 2 exercises, bench + neutral grip pull ups should hit every upper body muscle.

Then you've answered your own Q already, so get to work.

It's hard for others to give you feedback, since when people state something may be off with your knowledge of programming and form (which both clearly sound to be the case), you get defensive.

If you already know what you want to do, go for it. Best way to find out. Good luck!

[radrd]

It sounds like you're struggling with both your weight and pull ups. Considering weight is a health issue, I would address that first and not worry too much about how many pull ups you can do .

[GeneralSerpant]

I don't think the issue is my back or my form, wouldn't that also make pull ups harder?

no. It will make everything harder and less consistent. Except for if you’re cheating on one variation, which is the same difference in the long run.

I haven't done a lot of chin-ups or barbell overhead pressing, but the issue is my weird elbows. They feel funny, and while I've never had an injury, I've never really pushed it. For barbell overhead press, the substitution is obvious - dumbbells. The only reason to consider chins (that I am aware of) is people find them easier to build up volume than pull ups. Few people I know do neutral grip pull ups.

People can lift more weight with supinated also. It’s overall strength, not just volume.

If neutral grips are more arm then back exercises, then maybe a mix of neutral grip and regular pull ups and no curls would work best for me.

Chin-ups are simply less inefficient than pull-ups. Pull-ups require more upper back and shoulder coordinations.

Neutral is more arms than chins or pull-ups, but not more arms than back. All of the ups are more back than arms.

[StephenCGreen]

I've always struggled with pull ups, some of this is I need to lose weight. I don't do chin ups, I find them harder, and they hurt my elbows. While I've done as many as 8 strict pull ups in a set, I've mostly been doing 4 sets of 2 reps, and haven't made much progress. For comparison, I've benched 12 reps of 225.

What are the differences between different grips? Neutral grip (palms facing each other) is easiest for me, and what I can find on the Internet seems to conflict about which muscles they work. I believe neutrals work biceps more and narrow grip works lats more, with wide grip being in the middle of the two.

If all I do is bench and neutral grip pull ups (I don't but it simplifies the question) can I have a balanced physique? Or will I be working my biceps too much and my lats too little?

It is just two exercises, so any balance you hope to attain will not be amazing, nor will it be particularly disappointing for the amount of effort required to do these two exercises. If your flat bench press is already pretty good but you have trouble with pull ups, then change your two exercises to incline dumbbell bench press and inverted row. I think that might help you get to a more balanced situation, at least for upper body.

[GeneralSerpant]

If you’re talking about bodybuilding and being upright critical about total body mass gain with every single split you try, then yeah what they said… but it’s fine just to do those exercises in the meantime for training purposes. I don’t regret doing nothing but pull-ups for a month when I first did it.

[air2fakie]

OP, in all seriousness, if you don't care about legs and you're only going to do 2 exercises - do BP & rows. With rows you can do variations to hit all parts of your back decently & work your biceps.

If can only do sets of 2 pullups, you're not going to build anything other than maybe overdevelop your teres major.

[GeneralSerpant]

You can progress with that low of reps by going for more sets. Sets of 1 can suffice to fluff up the volume or to practice explosive reps.