Pull Day, I need your help and have a question for you.

[2020Wellness]

I recently posted my Press Day Basics article and am now moving onto Pull Day.

One of the things I like most about writing my articles is asking others for their input and featuring their feedback for others to see. I'd love to get some forum members featured in this next article, so I'm asking you guys for help and will feature those who answer the question below.

What is your favorite Pull Day exercise?

Also, here's a sneak peek of the article to get you thinking about Pull Day:

What is Pull Day?

Have you ever heard the term ‘barn door back’? How about someone having lat muscles so developed that they look like wings? A muscular back is a symbol of power. So, how do build up those back muscles? The answer is Pull Day.

By basic definition, Pull Day zones in on the muscles we use to pull something toward our body. This includes pulling something toward us from above (vertical pull) or from in front of us (horizontal pull).

Examples of vertical pulls are Lat Pulldowns and Chin-Ups. Examples of horizontal pulls are Seated Cable Rows and Flat Bench Dumbbell Rows. Think of these motions like this; climbing up a hanging rope is a vertical pull and playing tug of war is a horizontal pull.

[Camarija]

I haven't found a need for a dedicated push or pull day.

For an Upper day I'd include these 3 main pulling components as a part of the day:

1. High Row - iliac lat
Shoulder extension to maximize lat recruitment all the way through the deep iliac insertions

You could do pulldowns or pullups but it's hard to keep strict shoulder extension unless you're already exceptionally strong, and even then the strength curve is the opposite of what you'd want.

Preferably, the pull should get easier as you contract, and be the lightest at full contraction. Band pull-ups are tge opposite and make it an exceptionally terrible lat exercise.

2. Chest Supported Row - thoracic lat and mid trap
T-Bar Row follows the strength curve for this well. If you have a Prime Seated Row, would be ideal making it harder in the stretched position.

Let your lats and traps relax in the stretched position, then pull with your elbows close to your body. Bonus points if you can bring your elbows down, behind, and around your ribs to finish up with extra work for your rear delts.

The stretch at the bottom hits your traps hard.
The first half of the elbows tucked and down pull hits your thoracic lats.
The final part of the pull with elbows behind the ribs lights up the rear delts.

3. Single Arm Face Pulls
Set them up for whatever you want to focus on.
For me it's shoulder health, so I focus on external rotor movements.
Horizontal abduction + lateral rotation

[air2fakie]

What is your favorite Pull Day exercise?

Deadlift. Let the arguments begin!

[paulinkansas]

Have you ever heard the term ‘barn door back'

There is a private bar called the Back Door Men's Club in East Alton Illinois. It's open 24/7. You have to ride a Harley to get in. I rode a big Honda. I dated the bartenders sister and could get in with her.

I'm pretty sure most of the people in that establishment had committed multiple felonies but had not been caught.

[2020Wellness]

Deadlift. Let the arguments begin!

Deadlifts are a push.

[2020Wellness]

There is a private bar called the Back Door Men's Club in East Alton Illinois. It's open 24/7. You have to ride a Harley to get in. I rode a big Honda. I dated the bartenders sister and could get in with her.

I'm pretty sure most of the people in that establishment had committed multiple felonies but had not been caught.

Interesting name choice for a biker bar, I'll say that.

[SaulGuzman]

What would be the target audience of the article?

[2020Wellness]

What would be the target audience of the article?

The article is valuable for anyone wanting to learn the basics of Pull Day training, including exercise options, criteria for creating an effective Pull Day, reasons for including Pull Day in their training split, and sample Pull Day routines.

There is value for beginners, but also for intermediate trainees. Also, it never hurts for advanced lifters to read about subjects they love.

[2020Wellness]

I haven't found a need for a dedicated push or pull day.

For an Upper day I'd include these 3 main pulling components as a part of the day:

1. High Row - iliac lat
Shoulder extension to maximize lat recruitment all the way through the deep iliac insertions

You could do pulldowns or pullups but it's hard to keep strict shoulder extension unless you're already exceptionally strong, and even then the strength curve is the opposite of what you'd want.

Preferably, the pull should get easier as you contract, and be the lightest at full contraction. Band pull-ups are tge opposite and make it an exceptionally terrible lat exercise.

2. Chest Supported Row - thoracic lat and mid trap
T-Bar Row follows the strength curve for this well. If you have a Prime Seated Row, would be ideal making it harder in the stretched position.

Let your lats and traps relax in the stretched position, then pull with your elbows close to your body. Bonus points if you can bring your elbows down, behind, and around your ribs to finish up with extra work for your rear delts.

The stretch at the bottom hits your traps hard.
The first half of the elbows tucked and down pull hits your thoracic lats.
The final part of the pull with elbows behind the ribs lights up the rear delts.

3. Single Arm Face Pulls
Set them up for whatever you want to focus on.
For me it's shoulder health, so I focus on external rotor movements.
Horizontal abduction + lateral rotation

Featured! I'll be dropping this article tonight on my Substack, but will also be posting it up here on the forum as a thread later this coming week.

I really appreciate you taking the time to write up your response. You're clearly into lifting and it shows with the detail you went into. It's good to see!

[Camarija]

Featured! I'll be dropping this article tonight on my Substack, but will also be posting it up here on the forum as a thread later this coming week.

I really appreciate you taking the time to write up your response. You're clearly into lifting and it shows with the detail you went into. It's good to see!

Cheers Brother!

I'm still a newbie, about 3.5 years into consistent lifting

Finished my third bulk



And almost done with my cut, about 9 more pounds to go

[jr384371]

wpt live updates is the most well-known brand in internationally televised gaming and entertainment, and it has a presence in tournaments held on actual poker tables.

[GeneralSerpant]

Easily the pullup.

[SaulGuzman]

The article is valuable for anyone wanting to learn the basics of Pull Day training, including exercise options, criteria for creating an effective Pull Day, reasons for including Pull Day in their training split, and sample Pull Day routines.

There is value for beginners, but also for intermediate trainees. Also, it never hurts for advanced lifters to read about subjects they love.

If it's going to be targeted at beginners/intermediates lifters, then I'd suggest including some variaton of pullups and facepulls/reverse flies. I'd also like to mention that inverted rows seem to me like a highly underrated exercise.

Camarija's intervention was so excellent that it leaves me with little more to say.

[2020Wellness]

If it's going to be targeted at beginners/intermediates lifters, then I'd suggest including some variaton of pullups and facepulls/reverse flies. I'd also like to mention that inverted rows seem to me like a highly underrated exercise.

Camarija's intervention was so excellent that it leaves me with little more to say.

Saul, I included all of those variations in my article, as well as in the sample routines contained in the article as well. Nice recommendations and thanks for contributing.

[2020Wellness]

Camarija, if you check the article you'll find yourself as one of the featured answers. Thanks again!

https://trainingwithryan.substack.co...-for-beginners

[2020Wellness]

Easily the pullup.

That's easily the most popular answer so far!

[GeneralSerpant]

That's easily the most popular answer so far!

Rows are more important for bodybuilding purposes, but are just about as tedious to attempt as much as pull-ups are satisfying.

[2020Wellness]

Cheers Brother!

I'm still a newbie, about 3.5 years into consistent lifting

Finished my third bulk



And almost done with my cut, about 9 more pounds to go

Here's the article you're featured in!

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=183963933

[EliKoehn]

Deadlift. Let the arguments begin!

I'm pretty sure you had me in mind for this, but BeginnerGainz went AWOL several months ago so I am not sure who else you were expecting to bite.

Deadlifts are a push.

I know what you mean, and agree that it's important not to disregard the fact that the drive is through the feet with much of the power deriving from the push of the legs, but in all seriousness, why would you not consider it both a push and a pull? A huge degree of the concentric force of the deadlift is pulling, and if it wasn't (even if the back remains isometrically taught and there's no spinal flexion) the knees would just extend and the torso would fold over with the bar partially above the ground and then the movement would stop. I get not considering it exclusively a pull or emphasizing that aspect such that driving through the feet is a lost cue, but it still is massively a pull within the full-body exercise that it ultimately is.

Also, interesting post. The question I was going to ask before scrolling down and seeing the deadlift comments is the merits of this kind of a split for intermediates/advanced lifters who are still natural. Like Camarija said, at a certain level it seems that U/L is more sensible for recovery, but, to be fair, I haven't tried anything like PPL since developing a good work capacity at a reasonable level of strength. I've seen that kind of a spread get a lot of flak as being unsustainable and only followed by enhanced lifters, but I can't recall anyone really burning out on it as a natural once they're past novice strength levels.

The only groups I hear refer to their having a "pull day" or a "push day," are either beginners/novices or truly advanced people. That middle half of the gradient doesn't seem to train that way (or at least isn't vocal about it), so I was curious about that in your post, since you look to be quite advanced but your advice (as you say in post #8) is for a general audience.

[jademonkey]

I'm pretty sure you had me in mind for this, but BeginnerGainz went AWOL several months ago so I am not sure who else you were expecting to bite.



I know what you mean, and agree that it's important not to disregard the fact that the drive is through the feet with much of the power deriving from the push of the legs, but in all seriousness, why would you not consider it both a push and a pull? A huge degree of the concentric force of the deadlift is pulling, and if it wasn't (even if the back remains isometrically taught and there's no spinal flexion) the knees would just extend and the torso would fold over with the bar partially above the ground and then the movement would stop. I get not considering it exclusively a pull or emphasizing that aspect such that driving through the feet is a lost cue, but it still is massively a pull within the full-body exercise that it ultimately is.

Also, interesting post. The question I was going to ask before scrolling down and seeing the deadlift comments is the merits of this kind of a split for intermediates/advanced lifters who are still natural. Like Camarija said, at a certain level it seems that U/L is more sensible for recovery, but, to be fair, I haven't tried anything like PPL since developing a good work capacity at a reasonable level of strength. I've seen that kind of a spread get a lot of flak as being unsustainable and only followed by enhanced lifters, but I can't recall anyone really burning out on it as a natural once they're past novice strength levels.

The only groups I hear refer to their having a "pull day" or a "push day," are either beginners/novices or truly advanced people. That middle half of the gradient doesn't seem to train that way (or at least isn't vocal about it), so I was curious about that in your post, since you look to be quite advanced but your advice (as you say in post #8) is for a general audience.

Most of the flak I see for PPL is that it's just not needed for most lifters, that most beginner and intermediate lifters don't need the total volume or variety that necessitates a 3+ day split. If I had the time and gym access I'd still be doing PPL. Anecdotally, I made good gains when I started with a PPL for the first year plus, didn't have burnout, and doubt it would have been quite as productive with a 3x full body. From what I see, most flak is that most lifters are better off getting more recovery, more free time and off days, and 90% of the benefit. Hell, that's what I do now cuz I just don't want to/can't get to the gym 5-6 days per week. Again anecdotally, I had no problem with work capacity or intensity doing a 2 hour pull session.

[TAWS6]

I think its rare for someone to actually need pull and push days. I mean, unless you're so strong that you can't train the whole upper body in one session it could be beneficial. That would be at a truly advanced level and even then you still see top level lifters running upper/lowers (heavy/light for powerlifting) or (Specialization cycles for bodybuilding) or whatever. Just my opinion.

[mark031111]

Pull ups and seated dows are my favorite

[2020Wellness]

I'm pretty sure you had me in mind for this, but BeginnerGainz went AWOL several months ago so I am not sure who else you were expecting to bite.

I know what you mean, and agree that it's important not to disregard the fact that the drive is through the feet with much of the power deriving from the push of the legs, but in all seriousness, why would you not consider it both a push and a pull? A huge degree of the concentric force of the deadlift is pulling, and if it wasn't (even if the back remains isometrically taught and there's no spinal flexion) the knees would just extend and the torso would fold over with the bar partially above the ground and then the movement would stop. I get not considering it exclusively a pull or emphasizing that aspect such that driving through the feet is a lost cue, but it still is massively a pull within the full-body exercise that it ultimately is.

Also, interesting post. The question I was going to ask before scrolling down and seeing the deadlift comments is the merits of this kind of a split for intermediates/advanced lifters who are still natural. Like Camarija said, at a certain level it seems that U/L is more sensible for recovery, but, to be fair, I haven't tried anything like PPL since developing a good work capacity at a reasonable level of strength. I've seen that kind of a spread get a lot of flak as being unsustainable and only followed by enhanced lifters, but I can't recall anyone really burning out on it as a natural once they're past novice strength levels.

The only groups I hear refer to their having a "pull day" or a "push day," are either beginners/novices or truly advanced people. That middle half of the gradient doesn't seem to train that way (or at least isn't vocal about it), so I was curious about that in your post, since you look to be quite advanced but your advice (as you say in post #8) is for a general audience.

To be honest, my comment about the deadlift being a push was more joking around than anything. But I do consider it a push:

1. The quads activate to push the weight up and move the knees into a straightened position.
2. The glutes activate to push the torso upright and move the hips into a straightened position.
3. Everything else with the upper body is just a static link between those muscles and the weight, as the torso is pushed into an upright position. The upper body is flexed, but not pulling, IMO.

It looks like a pull to the naked eye, but I can't help but view it as a push.

As for having a pull/push day, I don't see anything wrong with it at all, regardless of experience level.

My program, GST, uses a four day split:

Press Day (Focuses on pecs, triceps, shoulders as the primary targets, but implements some back and biceps to ensure twice-weekly training frequency)

Squat Day (Quad/Glute-focused leg day with calves, upper back, and abs, but implements some hamstring work to ensure twice-weekly training frequency)

Pull/OHP Day (Focuses on shoulders, lats, rhomboids, teres, biceps as the primary targets, but implements some pecs and triceps to ensure twice-weekly
training frequency)

Lift Day (Ham/Glute-focused leg day with calves, upper back, and abs, but implements some quad work to ensure twice-weekly training frequency)

So you can see, it's a Push/Legs/Pull/Legs split, but incorporates smart additions to each day to ensure twice-weekly frequency of all major muscle groups.

I do believe there is value in once-weekly frequency (I made all of my beginner gains for years using that method), but as a natural and someone who wants to hit my muscles twice per week now, this is the ultimate split IMO. It works amazingly well, it's fun, it's engaging, and it feels great over and over and over.

To address your last couple of lines, I would consider myself advanced for sure. I have nearly 30 years of training under my belt and have paused training under a year in total throughout the entire time.

[jademonkey]

To be honest, my comment about the deadlift being a push was more joking around than anything. But I do consider it a push:

1. The quads activate to push the weight up and move the knees into a straightened position.
2. The glutes activate to push the torso upright and move the hips into a straightened position.
3. Everything else with the upper body is just a static link between those muscles and the weight, as the torso is pushed into an upright position. The upper body is flexed, but not pulling, IMO.

It looks like a pull to the naked eye, but I can't help but view it as a push.

As for having a pull/push day, I don't see anything wrong with it at all, regardless of experience level.

My program, GST, uses a four day split:

Press Day (Focuses on pecs, triceps, shoulders as the primary targets, but implements some back and biceps to ensure twice-weekly training frequency)

Squat Day (Quad/Glute-focused leg day with calves, upper back, and abs, but implements some hamstring work to ensure twice-weekly training frequency)

Pull/OHP Day (Focuses on shoulders, lats, rhomboids, teres, biceps as the primary targets, but implements some pecs and triceps to ensure twice-weekly
training frequency)

Lift Day (Ham/Glute-focused leg day with calves, upper back, and abs, but implements some quad work to ensure twice-weekly training frequency)

So you can see, it's a Push/Legs/Pull/Legs split, but incorporates smart additions to each day to ensure twice-weekly frequency of all major muscle groups.

I do believe there is value in once-weekly frequency (I made all of my beginner gains for years using that method), but as a natural and someone who wants to hit my muscles twice per week now, this is the ultimate split IMO. It works amazingly well, it's fun, it's engaging, and it feels great over and over and over.

To address your last couple of lines, I would consider myself advanced for sure. I have nearly 30 years of training under my belt and have paused training under a year in total throughout the entire time.

That's vaguely similar to what I was doing for a while when I had a lot of time. I started with PPL with one rest day, 8 day split, but I'd add to it to get more frequency:
I'd do legs with an extra push, then pull, then push with a lighter weight squat, then rest day. Next round I'd do a similar thing but with 2x pull - Deadlift+pull day, push day, legs plus one pull exercise.

So I'd get at least one or more pulls 3x per 8 days, one or more push 3x per 8 days, and something for legs every other day. Bonus for such a frequent schedule not relying on days of the week, I could take random days off to do other sh!t without affecting it much. Was even beneficial to take some extra off days here and there with the frequent leg work.