Recommendations For Splitting-Up These Full-Body Workouts?

[Michiganian]

I've been doing a kind of amalgam between Fierce 5 Novice and Starting Strength Novice, with a couple of my own additions tacked-on.

Full-Body Workout "A":

Squat: 5x3
Bench Press: 5x3
Deadlift: 5x3
Reverse Fly (cable), Face Pull, Cable Row (straight bar), or Kroc Row: 8x3
Standing Calf Raise/Triceps Pushdown Supersets: 15x2 and 10x2, respectively
Wood Chop or Reverse Wood Chop: 12x2

Full-Body Workout "B":

Front Squat: 5x3
Seated Overhead DB Press: 5x3
Romanian Deadlift: 8x3
Lat Pulldown or Decline Lat Pullover: 10x3
Kneeling Cable Ab Crunch/Standing Bicep Curl Supersets: 15x2 and 10x2, respectively
Hip Abduction/Adduction: 12x2

I've been working out every-other-day, giving myself a full day's recovery between each.

I've been making fairly steady progress, but, what with setups, tear-downs, and warm-up sets these sessions are taking two hours. Too long. So I'm looking to split each of them into two (I.e.: A1, A2, B1, B2) and work out two days on, one day off. (I.e.: A1, A2, recovery, B1, B2, recovery.)

What is the hive mind's recommendations on how I should best split them up?

My initial thoughts are:

Workout "A1":

Squat: 5x3
Bench Press: 5x3
Standing Calf Raise/Triceps Pushdown Supersets: 15x2 and 10x2, respectively

Workout "A2":

Deadlift: 5x3
Reverse Fly (cable), Face Pull, Cable Row (straight bar), or Kroc Row: 8x3
Wood Chop or Reverse Wood Chop: 12x2

Workout "B1":

Front Squat: 5x3
Seated Overhead DB Press: 5x3
Kneeling Cable Ab Crunch/Standing Bicep Curl Supersets: 15x2 and 10x2, respectively

Workout "B2":

Romanian Deadlift: 8x3
Lat Pulldown or Decline Lat Pullover: 10x3
Hip Abduction/Adduction: 12x2


Thanks!

[SuicideGripMe]

Well, what are your goals? If your fullbody workout is taking you two hours... this must be a slow a$$ paced workout. There is absolutely no reason you should be taking 2 hours for the routine listed. Your rest periods are probably way too long. At your novice stage, you aren't taxing your CNS so hard you should be able to move at a decent pace (60-120 seconds per set).

Also, are your ramping or doing straight sets? 3 sets of 5 reps of deadlifts is probably taking the most time....

If you are advanced, this is all a different story, but judging by your post, I honestly think you may be resting too much, going too heavy so your rest periods are too long, or your conditioning might need work (GPP can help here).

Do you have a log of your last workout with rest times?

[Michiganian]

Your rest periods are probably way too long.

Two minutes on things like deads, benches, presses, and squats. One minute between and after warm-up sets for all. One minute on the cable exercises and between supersets. I don't do warm-up sets on most of those.

The problem, with my home gym, is limited space and equipment. This necessitates moving a lot of stuff around when changing exercises. E.g.: Going from squats, to benches, to DLs:

Set up the squat rack and bar for squats.
Unload the bar, take it off the rack, move the J-hooks and safety spotter arms, move the bench in (which necessitates moving the back hyper bench out of the way).
Unload the bar, move it to where I do DLs, move the back hyper bench again, put the DL mats down.

Going from front squats, to presses, to RDLs:

Set up the rack and bar for front squats
Unload the bar
Set up the bench for DB presses
Spend forever setting up the adjustable DBs for warm-up sets (the original Hoist/IronMaster DBs)
Take the bar off the rack, reset the J-hooks for RDLs, take the safety spotter arms off, set up the bar

Before you ask: No, there's no way around any of this. I've already spent nearly $6k on equipment since late last year and I don't have room for any more, anyway.

Also, are your ramping or doing straight sets? 3 sets of 5 reps of deadlifts is probably taking the most time....

I'm doing warm-up sets. At my age, launching right into work sets is probably a Bad Idea

... I honestly think you may be resting too much, going too heavy so your rest periods are too long, ...

My rests are set in my workout app (Strong Workout).

[air2fakie]

I know this isn't relevant if you're switching, but I don't get why you put 3x5 Squats, BP & DLs all in Workout A, instead of kicking squats or DL over into Workout B for example.

Without commenting on the program details itself, I'd just do an Upper/Lower or full body Push/Pull format instead of your changes.

[Michiganian]

I know this isn't relevant if you're switching, but I don't get why you put 3x5 Squats, BP & DLs all in Workout A, instead of kicking squats or DL over into Workout B for example.

They're essentially the Fierce 5 Novice routines with DLs substituted for Pendlay Rows because I didn't like Pendlay Rows and I wanted to keep DLs from the Starting Strength Novice routines. (And, yes: I realize that's not a 1:1 substitution.)

Ok, well, if nobody has any better suggestions, I'll just split 'em up the way I came up with and go with that. It's the same "A" and "B" workouts, just each spread over two days, instead of one each ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Camarija]

Most likely,
1. You're taking far too long in between warmup sets and sets
2. You need to progress out of full body into upper / lower

But both of these have been mentioned and it sounds like you'd prefer to do whatever you want.

Good luck brother.

[SuicideGripMe]

Hmmm, I'd highly reccommend Bill Starr's 5x5 (or Madcows)... I find ramped sets to be much easier mentally and physically.

You could also do an upper/lower split like Westside for Skinny Bastards or even a 5/3/1 variant.

5/3/1 variants make it pretty damn easy with a small space as you need to set up for only one core lift really and the accessory work can be as barebones as you want. For example...

Bench Day + Push Ups or Dips and TRX Rows
Deadlift Day + Core Work and Unilateral Work
OH Press Day + Push Ups or Dips and Chin Ups
Squat Day + Core Work and Unilateral Work

[Michiganian]

That's the kind of feedback I was looking for, SuicideGripMe. Thanks!

I don't know about 5/3/1. My workout app, Strong Workout, won't lend itself well to doing the percentage calculations, I do not believe. But, I can still follow those splits.

I'm not looking for major strength/mass gains. I want to get stronger, improve my lean body mass, bone mass/density, etc., but, mainly, I'm looking to grow old remaining as functional as I can for as long as I can

[air2fakie]

I'm not looking for major strength/mass gains. I want to get stronger, improve my lean body mass, bone mass/density, etc., but, mainly, I'm looking to grow old remaining as functional as I can for as long as I can

If this is your goal, what you proposed in the original thread (or anything really) is fine.

[Michiganian]

If this is your goal, what you proposed in the original thread (or anything really) is fine.

I'm trying to avoid falling back into "anything, really" again. I was doing that up until about... February or March. Just going downstairs and "What do I feel like doing today?" or "What haven't I done for a while?" I felt good, but, having a designed program, with measurables, I feel has been more effective.

I guess I'm trying to find some kind of happy medium

[air2fakie]

I'm trying to avoid falling back into "anything, really" again. I was doing that up until about... February or March. Just going downstairs and "What do I feel like doing today?" or "What haven't I done for a while?" I felt good, but, having a designed program, with measurables, I feel has been more effective.

I guess I'm trying to find some kind of happy medium

I get it, if you feel like what you're doing is working - keep at it. Anything consistent with some sort of structure has the potential to build muscle and strength.

It's hard to give advice on people's personal programs on here because no one actually wants to hear anything that isn't in line with what they already want to do. In the end, what you're doing is fine for your goals (srs).

[Michiganian]

It's hard to give advice on people's personal programs on here because no one actually wants to hear anything that isn't in line with what they already want to do.

Yeah, I've seen that. I've experienced it.

In the end, what you're doing is fine for your goals (srs).

Thanks

I may go with my original idea. I may do some version of what SuicideGripMe suggested. I'll think on it a bit more.

[Michiganian]

Update

After a longer break than I'd intended I got back to it seven weeks ago. The new plan (A1, A2, recovery day, B1, B2, recovery day, A1, ...) is working out nicely. Each session ended-up ±50 minutes, allowing me to add additional accessory sets to each when I want to target something specific (E.g.: On the day I bench I added cable crossovers [chest flies] and incline bench drop sets to target my pecs) and still come in around 60 minutes in the gym.

It's working out well & I'm making steady gains.

[SuicideGripMe]

Update

After a longer break than I'd intended I got back to it seven weeks ago. The new plan (A1, A2, recovery day, B1, B2, recovery day, A1, ...) is working out nicely. Each session ended-up ±50 minutes, allowing me to add additional accessory sets to each when I want to target something specific (E.g.: On the day I bench I added cable crossovers [chest flies] and incline bench drop sets to target my pecs) and still come in around 60 minutes in the gym.

It's working out well & I'm making steady gains.

That's a good man. Keep it going brother!

[Michiganian]

Okay, well... the new plan turned out to have a major flaw: HIIT takes so much out of me I need a recovery day either side of it. That means A1, A2, recovery, B1, B2, recovery, HIIT, recovery, A1...

That's an 8-day cycle. Too long.

So I've removed all but one of the accessory exercises I'd added to my "Starting Strength/Fierce 5 amalgam" programs and I'll try going back to...

Day 1: Full Body "A"
Squat
Bench
Deadlift
Tripod Row
Reverse Fly
Calf Raise/Skullcrusher Superset

Day 2: Active Recovery

Day 3: Full Body "B"
Front Squat
Press
Romanian Deadlift
Lat Pulldown
Crunch/Bicep Curl Superset
Shoulder External Rotation

Day 4: Active Recovery

Day 5:
Wood Chop/Reverse Wood Chop (alternating)
Hip Adduction
Hip Abduction
HIIT

Days 6: Active Recovery

On the squat/DL day I'll stretch the inter-set recovery out a bit during DLs, since they're both so demanding.