Another one bites the Dust

[mtpockets]

Stewart Rhodes, the founder of the far-right group known as the Oath Keepers, was sentenced to 18 years in prison for seditious conspiracy and other crimes related to the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, receiving the longest sentence in a Jan. 6 case to date.



I wonder if he will get a prison visit from the Three-Toed Sloth MTG

[x-trainer ben]

That is the *one place* that you just don't fk with, and this punishment is to be expected.
At least i did, and hope that others expected it.

[LWW]

That is the *one place* that you just don't fk with, and this punishment is to be expected.
At least i did, and hope that others expected it.

Maybe you need to research Merican prisons and really ask yourself this.

Chances are you really don’t care and that’s the problem with our world.

But if you think drug related crimes don’t deserve prison sentence than you should.

I don’t understand how someone who leads a group to DC (which is common in our history) has to now go to place that is worse than hell?

[keyboardworkout]

Conspiracy - that's like when you get sentenced for a crime that never happened.

[CommitmentRulz]

Conspiracy - that's like when you get sentenced for a crime that never happened.

There we more FBI undercovers there than protestors.

[7Seconds]

Conspiracy - that's like when you get sentenced for a crime that never happened.

At common law, a conspiracy was simply an agreement between two (or more) people to commit a crime, together with an intent to commit that crime. Most modern jurisdictions add an element to that definition that one must commit an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy.

Generally, conspiracy does not "merge" with the completed crime, unlike attempt for instance, so both can be charged and punished separately. I'll let J. Breyer explain why:

The Court has repeatedly said that the essence of a conspiracy is "an agreement to commit an unlawful act." That agreement is "a distinct evil," which "may exist and be punished whether or not the substantive crime ensues." The conspiracy poses a "threat to the public" over and above the threat of the commission of the relevant substantive crime—both because the "[c]ombination in crime makes more likely the commission of [other] crimes" and because it "decreases the probability that the individuals involved will depart from their path of criminality."

U.S. v. Jimenez Recio, 537 U.S. 270, 274-275 (2003)

[keyboardworkout]

There was no "intent" to overthrow the government.

[7Seconds]

There was no "intent" to overthrow the government.

This is from the Justice Department's press release and what the government convinced a jury of peers that they were guilty of.

According to the seditious conspiracy indictment, the defendants conspired through a variety of manners and means, including: organizing into teams that were prepared and willing to use force and to transport firearms and ammunition into Washington, D.C.; recruiting members and affiliates to participate in the conspiracy; organizing trainings to teach and learn paramilitary combat tactics; bringing and contributing paramilitary gear, weapons and supplies – including knives, batons, camouflaged combat uniforms, tactical vests with plates, helmets, eye protection and radio equipment – to the Capitol grounds; breaching and attempting to take control of the Capitol grounds and building on Jan. 6, 2021, in an effort to prevent, hinder and delay the certification of the electoral college vote; using force against law enforcement officers while inside the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021; continuing to plot, after Jan. 6, 2021, to oppose by force the lawful transfer of presidential power, and using websites, social media, text messaging and encrypted messaging applications to communicate with co-conspirators and others.

[LWW]

He will certainly go to federal prison, look that up Ben.

He most likely will join the AB car or else get shanked up.

Who knows, just saying.

Doesn’t sound like any rehabilitation to me.

Remember he may just get out again...........

[Corbi]

What about the guy who sat in Pelosi's chair? He didn't do $hit except sit in a chair and he got 4.5 years in the pokey. He claims there were 2 photographers in the office and they instructed him to sit there and pose.

[LWW]

What about the guy who sat in Pelosi's chair? He didn't do $hit except sit in a chair and he got 4.5 years in the pokey. He claims there were 2 photographers in the office and they instructed him to sit there and pose.

Madonna threatened to "blowup the white house", nothing happened to her, that's a fuking very srs thing to say in public, you never hear 7seconds on here discussing the ramifications of free speech on that one, it's not in his wheelhouse..................

What ya think Ben, "something you don't fuk with 'eh", I guess some people are above the law.

[mtpockets]

Second Oath Keeper sentenced to 12 years in prison for Jan. 6 Capitol riot

Another Oath Keeper convicted of seditious conspiracy alongside Rhodes — Florida chapter leader Kelly Meggs — was sentenced later Thursday to 12 years behind bars.

Meggs said he was sorry he was involved in the riot that left a “black eye on the country,” but maintained that he never planned to go into the Capitol.

The judge found Meggs doesn’t present an ongoing threat to the country the way Rhodes does, but told him “violence cannot be resorted to just because you disagree with who got elected.”

Other Oath Keepers are expected to be sentenced Friday and next week.

[7Seconds]

What about the guy who sat in Pelosi's chair? He didn't do $hit except sit in a chair and he got 4.5 years in the pokey. He claims there were 2 photographers in the office and they instructed him to sit there and pose.

The most serious charge Barnett faced, obstructing an official government proceeding, carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison. He was convicted on 8 counts total. Besides obstructing an official proceeding, he was convicted of two felonies related to carrying a dangerous weapon in the Capitol and a felony charge of civil disorder. The remaining misdemeanors he was convicted of included theft of government property, the envelope he took from Pelosi’s office.

• 18:231(a)(3); Civil Disorder

• 18:1512(c)(2) and 2; Obstruction of an Official Proceeding and Aiding and Abetting

• 18:1752(a)(1) and (b)(1)(A); Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon

• 18:1752(a)(2) and (b)(1)(A); Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon

• 40:5104(e)(2)(C); Entering and Remaining in Certain Rooms in the Capitol Building

• 40:5104(e)(2)(G); Parading, Demonstrating, or Picketing in a Capitol Building

• 18:641; Theft of Government Property


The interview he gave after exiting the capitol but still on the grounds, talking about how he "came into this world screaming and covered in someone else's blood, and I ain't afraid to go out of it that way!" wasn’t really a good look for someone claiming he was just a victim of circumstance.

Although the best part might be that his defense was "This isn't the actions of a criminal, I'm just a f*cking idiot".

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...YZCYrOaU2STMYE

[mtpockets]

What about the guy who sat in Pelosi's chair? He didn't do $hit except sit in a chair and he got 4.5 years in the pokey. He claims there were 2 photographers in the office and they instructed him to sit there and pose.

The most serious charge Barnett faced, obstructing an official government proceeding, carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison. He was convicted on 8 counts total. Besides obstructing an official proceeding, he was convicted of two felonies related to carrying a dangerous weapon in the Capitol and a felony charge of civil disorder. The remaining misdemeanors he was convicted of included theft of government property, the envelope he took from Pelosi’s office.

• 18:231(a)(3); Civil Disorder

• 18:1512(c)(2) and 2; Obstruction of an Official Proceeding and Aiding and Abetting

• 18:1752(a)(1) and (b)(1)(A); Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon

• 18:1752(a)(2) and (b)(1)(A); Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds with a Deadly or Dangerous Weapon

• 40:5104(e)(2)(C); Entering and Remaining in Certain Rooms in the Capitol Building

• 40:5104(e)(2)(G); Parading, Demonstrating, or Picketing in a Capitol Building

• 18:641; Theft of Government Property


The interview he gave after exiting the capitol but still on the grounds, talking about how he "came into this world screaming and covered in someone else's blood, and I ain't afraid to go out of it that way!" wasn’t really a good look for someone claiming he was just a victim of circumstance.

Although the best part might be that his defense was "This isn't the actions of a criminal, I'm just a f*cking idiot".

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...YZCYrOaU2STMYE

Well that explains it....








WASHINGTON — A military veteran who stormed the U.S. Capitol with the Oath Keepers on Jan. 6 was sentenced to 8½ years in federal prison Friday after apologizing for her actions.

Jessica Watkins told U.S. District Judge Amit Mehta that her actions were "reprehensible," and apologized for the impact that her conduct had on the country.

“My actions and my behaviors that fateful day were wrong, and as I now understand, criminal,” she said. “Violence is never the answer.”

Watkins, recalling her testimony during her trial, said once again that she was “just another idiot" running around the Capitol on Jan. 6, and apologized to the officers.

“I was just another idiot running around the Capitol," she said. "But idiots are held responsible, and today you’re going to hold this idiot responsible."


Mehta said that Watkins, who is trans, has a "fairly compelling life story." Assistant U.S. Attorney Alex Hughes said that the government does not dispute or minimize what Watkins went through personally, saying that she “has our sympathies, but she does not have an excuse.”

[KeepItMoving]

I think this lays the groundwork for how they are going to try to use the 'justice' system to convict Trump of a Jan6 felony. They are throwing the kitchen sink at him in an effort to prevent him from getting back into the white house. Never mind the paid thugs that burned our cities. Never mind the Biden crime family on the take from unfriendly countries. Never mind. Never mind the Clinton crimes or obama's role in the fake Russia hoax investigation. Persecute those who are not on board with the political objectives of the powerful elite that hold the power positions, both in the USA and globally.

[7Seconds]

I was going to ignore this but after a few pops I’ve decided to engage.

Madonna threatened to "blowup the white house", nothing happened to her, that's a fuking very srs thing to say in public,

I can’t say I remember this but if she did say something to that affect, it was very irresponsible and I assume the secret service would have talked to her. When you know that thousands of people are still hanging off a lot of what you say, looking up to you, it just takes that one unstable fan. Someone hears that and goes 'well if Madonna thought about it maybe I'm not so crazy after all...'.

you never hear 7seconds on here discussing the ramifications of free speech on that one, it's not in his wheelhouse..................

There are limitations to the first amendment. There’s a content neutral time, place and manner restriction which is an exception to the first amendment

Limitations based on time, place, and manner apply to all speech, regardless of the view expressed.[49] They are generally restrictions that are intended to balance other rights or a legitimate government interest.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

You do not have a right to speak however you like, wherever you like, however you like regardless of what you're saying. For the classic example, you do not get to preach about god in front of my house using a megaphone at 2AM. It doesn't matter what you're saying, you aren't allowed to say it with a megaphone in front of my house at 2AM.

Limits on time, place and methods have long been upheld so long as those limits are not based on the content of the speech but on the location, time or means. This is specifically about preventing disruptions of people's lives.

So in short, no, the fact that your speech is political does not mean you necessarily get to set up on the steps of the Capitol. In fact, it's important that it doesn't matter what your speech is about, you don't get to set up on the steps of the Capitol.

[7Seconds]

In a civil lawsuit brought by members of Congress and police officers who defended the Capitol, U.S. District Judge Amit Mehta wrote that “[T]he President’s January 6 Rally Speech can reasonably be viewed as a call for collective action.”

In another case, U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly found that “[A]t the ‘Stop the Steal’ rally, then-President Trump eponymously exhorted his supporters to, in fact, stop the steal by marching to the Capitol.”

At a different sentencing hearing, U.S. District Judge Rudolph Contreras said that Jan 6th “involved the rather unprecedented confluence of events spurred by then President Trump and a number of his prominent allies who bear much responsibility for what occurred on that day.”

Perhaps the most direct blaming of Trump came from U.S. District Judge David O. Carter, who concluded it was “more likely than not that President Trump” committed a felony by “corruptly attempt[ing] to obstruct the Joint Session of Congress on January 6, 2021.”

Judge Amy Berman Jackson said that at his rally at the Ellipse, Trump “stoked the flames of fear and discontent and explicitly encouraged those at the rally to go to the Capitol and fight for one reason and one reason only, to make sure the certification did not happen.”

Judge John D. Bates wrote that “one might conclude that the context implies that [Trump] was urging protestors to do something more—perhaps to enter the Capitol building and stop the certification.”

Magistrate Judge Michael John Aloi in West Virginia said about two Jan 6th defendants “We know, looking at it now, that they were supporting the president who would not accept that he was defeated in an election.”

Judge Beryl Howell found that one defendant had not planned to riot that day and instead “wanted to show your support for and join then-President Trump as he said he would be marching to the Capitol.”

And Judge Reggie Walton, appointed by George W. Bush, said in the sentencing of a Jan 6th defendant “unfortunately, we have charlatans like our former president, who doesn't in my view really care about democracy, but only about power.”

Nine different judges—appointed by Republican and Democratic presidents. They serve in courts in California, West Virginia and Washington, D.C.

They don’t have much in common except their view that Donald Trump bears responsibility for January 6th.






https://www.citizensforethics.org/re...r-january-6th/

[LWW]

I was going to ignore this but after a few pops I’ve decided to engage.


I can’t say I remember this but if she did say something to that affect, it was very irresponsible and I assume the secret service would have talked to her. When you know that thousands of people are still hanging off a lot of what you say, looking up to you, it just takes that one unstable fan. Someone hears that and goes 'well if Madonna thought about it maybe I'm not so crazy after all...'.




There are limitations to the first amendment. There’s a content neutral time, place and manner restriction which is an exception to the first amendment



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

You do not have a right to speak however you like, wherever you like, however you like regardless of what you're saying. For the classic example, you do not get to preach about god in front of my house using a megaphone at 2AM. It doesn't matter what you're saying, you aren't allowed to say it with a megaphone in front of my house at 2AM.

Limits on time, place and methods have long been upheld so long as those limits are not based on the content of the speech but on the location, time or means. This is specifically about preventing disruptions of people's lives.

So in short, no, the fact that your speech is political does not mean you necessarily get to set up on the steps of the Capitol. In fact, it's important that it doesn't matter what your speech is about, you don't get to set up on the steps of the Capitol.

The DC or ALL states capitols too?

Lol at you not knowing the Mad Donna thing, are you for real?

[7Seconds]

The DC or ALL states capitols too?

Feel free to protest on any piece of government property, many folks have, I have. But if/when you get arrested for trespassing, your 1st Amendment right to free speech won’t be a defense.

Lol at you not knowing the Mad Donna thing, are you for real?

Well I did look the story up.

Her direct quote

"Yes, I'm angry. Yes, I am outraged. Yes, I have thought an awful lot of blowing up the White House, but I know that this won't change anything. We cannot fall into despair. As the poet, W.H. Auden once wrote on the eve of World War II: We must love one another or die.

"I choose love. Are you with me? Say this with me: We choose love. We choose love. We choose love."

I dunno man, it seems pretty clear she's saying to choose love over violence, perhaps a bit ineloquently.

[LWW]

Feel free to protest on any piece of government property, many folks have, I have. But if/when you get arrested for trespassing, your 1st Amendment right to free speech won’t be a defense.




Well I did look the story up.

Her direct quote



I dunno man, it seems pretty clear she's saying to choose love over violence, perhaps a bit ineloquently.

The media did of take her words out of context.

Love, Love, my azz, here's a 4+ minute vid of part of the speech, nothing backing up what you say, and while Trump is a dik wad, for her to think that the other side isn't dark, she's really wrong here. I hope she can come to the real truth, but I think her true intent had something to do with the entertainment industry to help push BS. The real darkness that came from 4 years of Trump was Covid and he was wrong to shut down anything for 2-weeks, the Covid thing was a much higher power and it was a plandemic. MadDonna wasn't hurt at all by Trump himself being POTUS.

[7Seconds]

The media did of take her words out of context.

Love, Love, my azz, here's a 4+ minute vid of part of the speech, nothing backing up what you say, and while Trump is a dik wad, for her to think that the other side isn't dark, she's really wrong here.

It was an irresponsible thing for her to say as it only takes one Hinckley to slip through the cracks, but it’s not a crime.

The term credible threat means a threat that is “ real and immediate, not conjectural or hypothetical.” Kegler v. United States DOJ, 436 F. Supp. 2d 1204, 1212 (D. Wyo. 2006)

I hope she can come to the real truth, but I think her true intent had something to do with the entertainment industry to help push BS. The real darkness that came from 4 years of Trump was Covid and he was wrong to shut down anything for 2-weeks, the Covid thing was a much higher power and it was a plandemic. MadDonna wasn't hurt at all by Trump himself being POTUS.

Not everything is a conspiracy. Sometimes it’s just a 60+ former pop star spouting off stupid political opinions as she desperately try’s to find any shred of her youth.

[LWW]

Not everything is a conspiracy. Sometimes it’s just a 60+ former pop star spouting off stupid political opinions as she desperately try’s to find any shred of her youth.

Most pop stars are slaves to the industry, I would think you know all about it.

Very few are truly free, and the ones who speak up against what’s PC must apologize or else there are consequences from their management handlers.

Usually the more popular and successful they are, the more likely they are controlled on what they say. The industry itself uses these artist for rebellious speech, think controversial lyrics and videos.

It’s such a joke, and if the media/system can manipulate Mad Donna they can do the same for this guy.

Never forget Hitler went to prison to for trying to take over the gubmit, prison never stopped him from what happened later, prison only added fuel to that fire.

[7Seconds]

Never forget Hitler went to prison to for trying to take over the gubmit, prison never stopped him from what happened later, prison only added fuel to that fire.

If the judges and justice system that were in place didn’t have such strong sympathies towards far-right wingers history would have likely looked much different. If Hitler would have been a left wing revolutionary he could have received life or been executed, but instead his trial was just one big show where he was allowed to voice his already popular opinions to a sympathetic crowd. Then he was sent to a country club prison where he spent just enough time to write his book Mein Kampf, which helped fund his lifestyle and Nazi Party once he got out. Hitler’s arrest and joke of a trial only made him more popular in Germany and Europe.

[LWW]

If the judges and justice system that were in place didn’t have such strong sympathies towards far-right wingers history would have likely looked much different. If Hitler would have been a left wing revolutionary he could have received life or been executed, but instead his trial was just one big show where he was allowed to voice his already popular opinions to a sympathetic crowd. Then he was sent to a country club prison where he spent just enough time to write his book Mein Kampf, which helped fund his lifestyle and Nazi Party once he got out. Hitler’s arrest and joke of a trial only made him more popular in Germany and Europe.

I find it so funny you are so sure like you were there, well you weren’t pal none of us were and you don’t know what’s truth.

If history is so correct than he killed himself, do you really believe a guy like that could kill himself? I don’t.

BTW, what’s your point anyway, as this guy isn’t getting life, I already said he just may get out. Federal prison will sure fuel more hatred. Research who this dude will need to ride with to survive fed.

[7Seconds]

I find it so funny you are so sure like you were there, well you weren’t pal none of us were and you don’t know what’s truth.

Source:

Hitler and the Beer Hall Putsch by Harold Gordon

The Trial of Adolf Hitler by David King

If history is so correct than he killed himself, do you really believe a guy like that could kill himself? I don’t.[

He killed himself because he knew he lost and didn’t like what he was going to face. He dictated the evening prior to his suicide, that he "decided of my own free will to choose death at the moment when I believe the position of the Fuhrer and Chancellor itself can no longer be held" and that "I myself, as founder and creator of this movement, have preferred death to cowardly abdication or even capitulation." While he might be trying to paint this as a noble choice, it was the fear of the alternatives that were just as much in his mind.

BTW, what’s your point anyway, as this guy isn’t getting life, I already said he just may get out. Federal prison will sure fuel more hatred. Research who this dude will need to ride with to survive fed.

To be honest I didn’t really understand your point in the first place. Sometimes I just respond with whatever I feel like talking about at the time.

[LWW]

Source:

Hitler and the Beer Hall Putsch by Harold Gordon

The Trial of Adolf Hitler by David King

Well, since you want to go there......

Source that JC is real- The Holy Bible, authors are many whom all account similar events.

Checkmate.

LOL.

Let’s go back to your right/left claim. It seems political apology is dangerous. There are many leftist apologist these days.

[7Seconds]

Well, since you want to go there......

I provided two sources, both of which are available free online. And there are plenty of others online that offer verifiable and corroborating evidence to what I said. You could look for yourself or just continue to not believe in anything unless you were there.

Source that JC is real- The Holy Bible, authors are many whom all account similar events.

None of us were around for something like President Lincoln’s assassination. However, we have photos of Lincoln. We have documents showing he was once our POTUS. We have transcripts of his speeches. We have reports by others of his work. We also have the bedspread he died on. Blood stains and all. On display in Washington DC.

What do we have on the miracles of Jesus? Nothing in the writings of Paul. The gospel accounts written about 40 years (at the earliest) after his execution by people who were not eyewitnesses. They were, at best, third-hand accounts. The external, non-religiously attested information is from Flavius Josephus who wrote 60+ years after Jesus’ death, but there are insertions from later Christian editors who preserved his writings. Oh, and we have no physical evidence of any such miracles happening. It’s also easy to see attributions to earlier Greek literature and drama from other stories written into the stories. It was written to promote an ideology, not to tell a historically accurate account of the events they describe.

Let’s go back to your right/left claim. It seems political apology is dangerous. There are many leftist apologist these days.

I don’t know what claim you are talking about.

[LWW]

I don’t know what claim you are talking about.

The right wing that was Germany at the time.

He tried to overthrow the gubmit, failed and was thrown in prison but yet the system (is this system part of the gubmit?) was right wing and that prison sentence was all dog and pony show?

Funny how some things you believe are dog and pony shows, yet others are not?

You didn’t say dog and pony show but it sounded like his prison sentence was just that, according to your sources.

[7Seconds]

The right wing that was Germany at the time.

He tried to overthrow the gubmit, failed and was thrown in prison but yet the system (is this system part of the gubmit?) was right wing and that prison sentence was all dog and pony show?

Funny how some things you believe are dog and pony shows, yet others are not?

You didn’t say dog and pony show but it sounded like his prison sentence was just that, according to your sources.

Short answer:

Most judges in the Weimar Republic also used to be judges in the German Empire, and were highly conservative and sympathetic to right wing movements. Hitler was tried in Bavaria, and many judges in Bavaria viewed the Weimer Republic as a treasonous entity for overthrowing the German Empire, and didn't consider an uprising against Weimar to be treason at all.

The chief judge at Hitlers' trial was Georg Neithardt, he regularly gave lenient sentences to far right revolutionaries and wasn't afraid to be known as being partisan. In fact before the trial he proclaimed that he would never imprison Erich Ludendorf, Hitlers' co-defendant. The other judges were also sympathetic to the Nazis, although not to the same extent as Neithardt. The judges even if they didn't support the coup sympathised with Hitlers' reasons for attempting the coup.

In addition to this the chief prosecutor for the case was somewhat incompetent, and was willing to let Hitler make speeches that lasted for hours.

The main reason that Hitler was even found guilty was because he didn't attempt to deny his actions, and because the Bavarian government didn't want the trial to be too extensive so that their dealings with the Nazi party before the coup didn't become common knowledge. So the Bavarian government influenced the judges to give Hitler a very light sentence so the trial would end quickly. Therefore Hitler received a sentence of 5 years, and would be eligible for parole after 9 months.

The commander of the prison where Hitler was imprisoned was also very sympathetic to Nazi ideals and allowed Hitler to send correspondence and receive visitors, even though this was against the prisons' rules. He also advocated for Hitler being released on parole after 9 months.


Long answer:

https://muse.jhu.edu/book/39151

[LWW]

7, so your last post seems that there is corruption and conspiracy, yet you always have an issue with my "conspiracies" and corruption acquisitions.

I refuse to believe that in this day, the Plandemic wasn't used or even created to some extent for an experiment, for a change, I see too many coincidences and things that didn't make any fuking sense.

Ok, we can agree that some things may be against the law, but I know how you seem to cater to rioters stating that, it's the only way to make change. Let me tell you, burning down and destroying your resources because you are mad at the system and you want the system to "protect" you doesn't help you/them, it only fuels the system and hurts the people, even you/they may think the system says "we are on YOUR side". Anyone that destroys a non-system resource is the enemy, plain and simple.

I don't care about these "oath" people or any sheep on Jan. 6th. I feel bad for the capitol police though, I feel they were used, just my OP. Those special folks in that building have a safe, secure bunker, they will be fine. Meanwhile people on the streets who have no real control over the system are suffering, destroying the resources people have for a handout won't do jack but continue to fuel more violent people, things like that create Hitlers.

You are lucky you were able to get to the hospital for all your kids being born, without being stuck in a "sheep" highway block protest.