UK national healthcare system in crisis- what the heck is going on?

[gachase21]

How can this possibly happen?

For more than a decade, the British government has run its National Health Service, the world’s largest government-run healthcare system, on a tight budget. The NHS prided itself on being one of the leanest healthcare systems in the developed world, spending less per head on average than its large European neighbors—and far less than the U.S.

Now the state-funded service is falling apart. People who suffer heart attacks or strokes wait more than 1½ hours on average for an ambulance. Hospitals are so full they are turning patients away. A record 7.1 million people in England—more than one in 10 people—are stuck on waiting lists for nonemergency hospital treatment like hip replacements. The NHS on Monday faced the biggest strike in its history, with thousands of paramedics and nurses walking out over pay.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/nhs-uk-...ts-11675693883

11-hour ambulance delay as UK healthcare hits crisis

Last July, 78-year-old Jacqueline Hulbert suffered a fall at home and was left lying on the floor for 11 hours waiting for an ambulance.

Her son Mathew Hulbert witnessed her “undignified” ordeal and has gone public to highlight the crisis within the overstretched state-funded health service.

https://timesofmalta.com/articles/vi...crisis.1010868

Britain's NHS was once idolized. Now its worst-ever crisis is fueling a boom in private health care

…..

Our providers are telling us that people are going private, many for the first time, and the key factor driving that is the challenge in accessing NHS care," said David Furness, policy director at the Independent Healthcare Providers Network, an industry body for private healthcare companies.

At the end of November, a record 7.2 million patients in England were waiting for non-urgent medical treatment on the NHS, known as "elective" care. This spans diagnostic tests and scans, procedures such as hip and knee replacements, but also cardiac surgery, cancer treatment and neurosurgery.

More than half of those on the list had been waiting up to 18 weeks and about 400,000 patients had been waiting more than a year, according to data from NHS England.

To avoid joining a waiting list, more and more people are paying for their own private medical care or taking out health insurance.

In the second quarter of 2022, the number of patients paying directly for private hospital care increased 34% compared with the same period in 2019 to reach 67,000, according to the Private Healthcare Information Network, which collects data on UK private healthcare.

The figures revealed a 184% jump in the number of people paying privately for hip replacements over that period, a 153% increase in self-pay for knee replacements and a 42% rise in private cataract surgery.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/02/06/b...-uk/index.html

[-JR]

Wasn't Brexit supposed to fix this since they don't have to send €€€ to the EU anymore? Or did they find something better to spend it on? Fukking lol.

[Ramoneb87]

Could it be health care workers who opted to resign, retire early, be fired, rather than take the jab. In the united states, they say it was less than 1% fired for non compliance, but I am skeptical of that figure

[backinbusiness]

US healthcare system ain’t perfect at all, but the liberal claims that universal healthcare like EU is what we should do love to ignore these articles.

Prefer to be in debt than dead.

[XterraRob]

If only all of these industries weren't firing professionals over refusing the COVID-19 vaccine.

[freeheeler]

How can this possibly happen?






https://www.wsj.com/articles/nhs-uk-...ts-11675693883






https://timesofmalta.com/articles/vi...crisis.1010868




https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/02/06/b...-uk/index.html

Remember this is the National health service. Priorities Priorities

https://www.nhsconfed.org/articles/why-pronouns-matter

On International Pronouns Day, read this personal reflection on why pronouns matter for NHS staff and their patients.

When I first came out as trans non-binary at work, many years ago, I asked my colleagues to start using ‘they, them’ pronouns when referring to me. I received a phone call a week or so later from a senior lead saying that the leadership team were finding it too difficult to use ‘they, them’ pronouns for me so would I instead choose between using ‘she’ or ‘he’.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/socie...al-race-theory

Amy Gallagher, who is in the final stages of a two-year course in forensic psychology, is suing the Portman Clinic in north London, part of The Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust, claiming discrimination on the basis of race, religion and philosophical belief.

She objected to a lecture entitled “whiteness – a problem of our time” in October 2020, where attendees were forced to confront “the reality of white privilege” and in another race lecture the following month, the 33-year-old claimed she was told that “Christianity is racist because it is European” by a talk leader.

Accused by an external speaker of not being able to work with “diverse populations” and inflicting “race-based harm”, Gallagher told The Telegraph she was bringing the case “to protect my career but it’s also the first test of woke ideology in the courts. The NHS is forcing someone to adopt a racist ideology and it needs to be stopped”.

[Kraken]

The more the government gets involved in healthcare, the more of an inefficient administrative monstrosity it becomes. When the NHS took over, staffing needs went up 25%, but 50% of that staffing was for administrative duties to deal with the bureaucracy. Patient output decreased by 25%. Costs obviously sky rocket too. The costs are usually hidden from the public, because they don’t want you to know it was failing from the start. It was only a matter of time. One event is all it takes to make it all come crashing down. Also think about that fact that for every dollar of tax money the government gets, only about 10 cents makes it to the patient’s actual care. This is why Medicare only pays 10 cents on the dollar.

Now add in all of the arbitrary rules and regulations, and you have chaos. As the administrative body gets larger and larger, the needs of the patients go farther and farther down the list of priorities. Doctors have to spend more time documenting, jumping through hoops etc, which takes time away from the patients. My wife and I have also noticed admin are becoming extremely incompetent, and coupled with a feeling of self importance, they can really fuark a dept up badly, then blaming it on someone/something else, like the doctors. My wife would come home from meetings where admin was telling them their throughput times were suffering, and it was the physicians’ fault. Meanwhile, they are sitting at a computer going through dozens and dozens of BS “required” questions.

[akferd]

I feel bad for the smug boomers when the death panels start forming. Limited resources with overwhelming demand means some people have to die for other people to live.

When liberal americants see this, maybe they'll wake up... probably not though.

[Kraken]

I feel bad for the smug boomers when the death panels start forming. Limited resources with overwhelming demand means some people have to die for other people to live.

When liberal americants see this, maybe they'll wake up... probably not though.

Obamacare has death panels. It’s one of the MANY reasons why it turned out to be so horrible.

[Weightaholic]

Conservative governments in the UK have gutted the NHS, and now they're pointing at it saying "see, it doesn't work!" Neoliberal playbook 101.

Next step, privatise, sell off as much as you can to rent seekers/donors/pals, secure some nice non-executive board decisions, and enjoy!

[isingmodel]

Conservatives happened:

Conservative governments in the UK have gutted the NHS, and now they're pointing at it saying "see, it doesn't work!" Neoliberal playbook 101.

Next step, privatise, sell off as much as you can to rent seekers/donors/pals, secure some nice non-executive board decisions, and enjoy!

The general trend of voting for right wing leadership = death holds everywhere, in the US too:


https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom...ublican-party/

Between 2001 and 2019, mortality rates decreased by 22% in Democratic counties (from 850 to 664 per 100,000), but by only half that (11%) in Republican counties (from 867 to 771 per 100,000).

Consequently, the gap in mortality rates between Republican and Democratic counties jumped by 541%, from 16.7 per 100,000 in 2001 to 107 deaths per 100,000 in 2019.

It'll take the Tories getting trounced in 2025 and a few years of competence to get things back on track again

[isingmodel]

The more the government gets involved in healthcare, the more of an inefficient administrative monstrosity it becomes. When the NHS took over, staffing needs went up 25%, but 50% of that staffing was for administrative duties to deal with the bureaucracy. Patient output decreased by 25%. Costs obviously sky rocket too. The costs are usually hidden from the public, because they don’t want you to know it was failing from the start. It was only a matter of time. One event is all it takes to make it all come crashing down. Also think about that fact that for every dollar of tax money the government gets, only about 10 cents makes it to the patient’s actual care. This is why Medicare only pays 10 cents on the dollar.

Now add in all of the arbitrary rules and regulations, and you have chaos. As the administrative body gets larger and larger, the needs of the patients go farther and farther down the list of priorities. Doctors have to spend more time documenting, jumping through hoops etc, which takes time away from the patients. My wife and I have also noticed admin are becoming extremely incompetent, and coupled with a feeling of self importance, they can really fuark a dept up badly, then blaming it on someone/something else, like the doctors. My wife would come home from meetings where admin was telling them their throughput times were suffering, and it was the physicians’ fault. Meanwhile, they are sitting at a computer going through dozens and dozens of BS “required” questions.

Administrative costs are by far the highest in the US:

Administrative spending makes up 15% to 30% of all U.S. medical spending—multiple times as much as other comparable countries—and “at least half” of that spending “does not contribute to health outcomes in any discernable way,” according to estimates cited in a new Health Affairs research brief.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31905376/

Before Canada's single-payer reform, its payment system, health costs, and number of health administrative personnel per capita resembled those of the United States. By 1999, administration accounted for 31% of U.S. health expenditures versus 16.7% in Canada.

American hospitals have to hire more billing staff to navigate insurance plans and correctly charge patients for care, than they have hospital beds:

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10...haff.2017.1325

The United States spends a large share of its health care resources on administrative costs, with some authors estimating the share at 30 percent. 1 Another study estimated that administrative costs make up one-seventh of total health care spending in the US. 2 This far exceeds the share of administrative costs in other countries and drives widespread concern about the efficiency of US medical spending. 3 Administrative expenses take many forms, but one of the most prominent is the process of billing and paying for medical care. For example, hospitals generally have more billing specialists than beds. 4 Physician offices’ spending on billing costs totals $30 billion per year.

https://www.invisible.co/post/hospit...they-have-beds

Reality is the exact opposite of whatever Republicans will tell you it is, every time without fail.

[PimpinisEasy]

The NHS was always destiend for failure.

It's basically a Ponzi scheme.

The UK does not have a pyramid demographic... we have a lot of old people, a lot of retired people and an increasingly aging population. Furthermore, The NHS is incredibly inefficient, when everyone is forced to pay for the service, the service does not care about patient outcomes it cares about the staff.

The NHs has become icnredibly politicised and within intself itn acts like a political lobby.

The NHS is a joke.

[PimpinisEasy]

Conservative governments in the UK have gutted the NHS, and now they're pointing at it saying "see, it doesn't work!" Neoliberal playbook 101.

Next step, privatise, sell off as much as you can to rent seekers/donors/pals, secure some nice non-executive board decisions, and enjoy!

Mad conspiracy theories...

The NHS doesn't work.

[scamander]

The Tories cut a lot of the supporting facilities (e.g. mental health). These were often vital in keeping patients with specific demands and resource needs out of the main hospital 'traffic'.

They've reduced healthcare to a single channel. Hence the massive backlogs and chokepoints. Amublances and paramedics aren't out picking up their regular type on incidents - instead they are backfilling for those specialised units which were cut.

Imagine the local council cutting the fire dept and stating that the police now have to deal with fires. Now imagine how quickly the response time for the police would be to an average incident.

[Doober4]

US healthcare system ain’t perfect at all, but the liberal claims that universal healthcare like EU is what we should do love to ignore these articles.

Prefer to be in debt than dead.

As someone that has health issues and has to go to the doctor often I totally agree. I have really good health insurance and the most I have to pay is $600 for really expensive PET scans.

But I love the fact that I can schedule them when I want and get to choose the best doctors.

Even during the height of the pandemic I got really bad poison ivy that was basically my entire body. Went to the dr and they recommended I go to the ER. I go there and it’s a ghost town, waited like 5 minutes to be seen and was out in like 30 mins.

They even went and got the lead ER dr to look at it and he was like holy god man, I don’t want to stick you with a needle so here’s some steroid pills.

[OPGenesis]

Kind of shocked OP is making such a low IQ argument by making this a argument against public healthcare to support his fetish of privatization.

This clearly has to do with infrastructure not being capable of not being able high such augmentations with rapid aging population and massive, and I mean massive, immigration expansion.

I just had kidney stone surgery. Went to two ER’s before the surgery for pain management.

Both ER’s were over capacity. One made visitors leave. Some people were waiting days to be seen in the ER. My average wait was around 13 hours.

Who were the main culprits in the ER. Boomers, fat fuks and illegals. Covid has put a massive strain on the system as well, because now when somebody gets the flu they’re anxiety riddled that they’re about to die from Covid.

Very nuanced issue, and very low IQ take from OP.

The healthcare system in America is a joke.

[ParsleyTea]

Historically the NHS is what UK citizens have said to me was one of their countries main positives. The health services their have typically polled well. I've often wished that America's health care system cost similar to what the UK's cost. They spend about half as much as we spend in America and their life expectancy in the UK I believe is slightly better than what is seen in America.

My parents have some UK friends coming to visit them next month. I'll have to ask them if they have seen or had any medical issues not being addressed due to the health care system falling apart.

[isingmodel]

Historically the NHS is what UK citizens have said to me was one of their countries main positives. The health services their have typically polled well. I've often wished that America's health care system cost similar to what the UK's cost. They spend about half as much as we spend in America and their life expectancy in the UK I believe is slightly better than what is seen in America.

My parents have some UK friends coming to visit them next month. I'll have to ask them if they have seen or had any medical issues not being addressed due to the health care system falling apart.

Under Labour the NHS was fairly objectively the best value healthcare system on the planet. Was costing us less than 1/3 per capita compared to the US (including all private care), waiting times were average for the OECD and very manageable, and treatment outcomes were also on par with comparable nations.

[gachase21]

Kind of shocked OP is making such a low IQ argument by making this an argument against public healthcare to support his fetish of privatization.

This clearly has to do with infrastructure not being capable of not being able high such augmentations with rapid aging population and massive, and I mean massive, immigration expansion.

I just had kidney stone surgery. Went to two ER’s before the surgery for pain management.

Both ER’s were over capacity. One made visitors leave. Some people were waiting days to be seen in the ER. My average wait was around 13 hours.

Who were the main culprits in the ER. Boomers, fat fuks and illegals. Covid has put a massive strain on the system as well, because now when somebody gets the flu they’re anxiety riddled that they’re about to die from Covid.

Very nuanced issue, and very low IQ take from OP.

The healthcare system in America is a joke.

I made an argument?

Are you okay ?

I know you struggle with accurately comprehending what you read at times - or misinterpret what it really means in general- but you might want to get a check up or something if you are hallucinating.

[Dave22reborn]

Conservative governments in the UK have gutted the NHS, and now they're pointing at it saying "see, it doesn't work!" Neoliberal playbook 101.

Next step, privatise, sell off as much as you can to rent seekers/donors/pals, secure some nice non-executive board decisions, and enjoy!

You're right, they need more government, higher taxes, that should fix the problem.

Is Australia still a ****hole? Did you cave and get the jab to enjoy basic, simple rights again?

[Dave22reborn]

Britain’s NHS Black Hole Is Devouring the Whole Country

The UK is facing a stark choice between funding public services or saving its health system.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...uverify%20wall

More government should fix the problem.

[Zelensky]

Oh no, what will all the Pakis and Africans who are conquering that country do for healthcare now?

[OPGenesis]

I made an argument?

Are you okay ?

I know you struggle with accurately comprehending what you read at times - or misinterpret what it really means in general- but you might want to get a check up or something if you are hallucinating.

It’s ok, pal. I’m not autistic. I’ve read enough of your posts to know where you were going with this.

Privatization isn’t really a solution though.

[Kraken]

I made an argument?

Are you okay ?

I know you struggle with accurately comprehending what you read at times - or misinterpret what it really means in general- but you might want to get a check up or something if you are hallucinating.

Just ignore OPGen. He’s a Marxist, and Marxism’s first and most important goal is to destroy capitalism and liberty. You can’t reason with someone who is ideologically possessed with destroying good.

[Antoine99]

Ok couple things;

1. We need to fire more healthcare workers who didn't get jabbed

2. That wasn't real communism/socialism

3. weagergggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg


Sorry I had a heart attack while waiting for an ambulance in the UK

[x-trainer ben]

The Tories cut a lot of the supporting facilities (e.g. mental health). These were often vital in keeping patients with specific demands and resource needs out of the main hospital 'traffic'.

They've reduced healthcare to a single channel. Hence the massive backlogs and chokepoints. Amublances and paramedics aren't out picking up their regular type on incidents - instead they are backfilling for those specialised units which were cut.

Imagine the local council cutting the fire dept and stating that the police now have to deal with fires. Now imagine how quickly the response time for the police would be to an average incident.

Great points but a question for ya?
Describe the changes there in care since Covid?
Did you have an increase in population, do you have lots of old people like Italy, was taking/not taking the CVD vaxx an issue for medical staff, and are people generally fatter and sicker than before?
Is this a policy political issue or a population shift issue?

[katya422]

Could it be health care workers who opted to resign, retire early, be fired, rather than take the jab. In the united states, they say it was less than 1% fired for non compliance, but I am skeptical of that figure

This is absolutely a factor for health systems around the world.

The NHS was always destiend for failure.

It's basically a Ponzi scheme.

The UK does not have a pyramid demographic... we have a lot of old people, a lot of retired people and an increasingly aging population. Furthermore, The NHS is incredibly inefficient, when everyone is forced to pay for the service, the service does not care about patient outcomes it cares about the staff.

The NHs has become icnredibly politicised and within intself itn acts like a political lobby.

The NHS is a joke.

This is the case for nearly every industrialized nation and the private/public argument is a side issue.

You won't fix the ratio of old people to young people by switching between a private/public system.

Conservative governments in the UK have gutted the NHS, and now they're pointing at it saying "see, it doesn't work!" Neoliberal playbook 101.

Next step, privatise, sell off as much as you can to rent seekers/donors/pals, secure some nice non-executive board decisions, and enjoy!

The Tories cut a lot of the supporting facilities (e.g. mental health). These were often vital in keeping patients with specific demands and resource needs out of the main hospital 'traffic'.

They've reduced healthcare to a single channel. Hence the massive backlogs and chokepoints. Amublances and paramedics aren't out picking up their regular type on incidents - instead they are backfilling for those specialised units which were cut.

Imagine the local council cutting the fire dept and stating that the police now have to deal with fires. Now imagine how quickly the response time for the police would be to an average incident.

Under Labour the NHS was fairly objectively the best value healthcare system on the planet. Was costing us less than 1/3 per capita compared to the US (including all private care), waiting times were average for the OECD and very manageable, and treatment outcomes were also on par with comparable nations.

All true.

Yes, government bureaucracies can become bloated and inefficient. Privatized systems can become equally moribund and top heavy.

When pro-privatization forces get the upper hand they tend to just cut funding and services.

This clearly has to do with infrastructure not being capable of not being able high such augmentations with rapid aging population and massive, and I mean massive, immigration expansion.

I just had kidney stone surgery. Went to two ER’s before the surgery for pain management.

Both ER’s were over capacity. One made visitors leave. Some people were waiting days to be seen in the ER. My average wait was around 13 hours.

Who were the main culprits in the ER. Boomers, fat fuks and illegals. Covid has put a massive strain on the system as well, because now when somebody gets the flu they’re anxiety riddled that they’re about to die from Covid.

The healthcare system in America is a joke.

I think that the people who are still fans of the US healthcare system must have lots of money/good jobs w/benefits + live in an area with great availability of medical services.

The viewer supported BOTG reports I watch have lots of stories of people in the US not being able to get medical care in a timely fashion. Overall it seems like rural areas are much more under served.

What we are doing now isn't working.



Link:
https://www.foxnews.com/media/arizon...y-has-solution

I'm in DFW and while I've been able to get GP visits within about a week most things are scheduled weeks to month out. I've been dealing with anemia and had my last check January 27. My numbers are very low, but I'm still not getting my first iron txmt until the third week of February.

I made an appointment w/audiology back in October and the first available was this coming March.

[leafs43]

They will just blame not importing enough immigrants.


That's the only way a ponzi scheme works when the native population doesn't pop out babies. They need more people paying in then are taking out.

[PenorBrahNoHomo]

This clearly has to do with infrastructure not being capable of not being able high such augmentations with rapid aging population and massive, and I mean massive, immigration expansion.

This, plus people are less healthy than ever and most money spent on the NHS is wasted on execs and administrators rather than infrastructure, equipment or useful workers.