A tale of 2 states and 2 different rail systems

[freeheeler]

Government or Private company

California -v- Florida

But with gas prices rising and traffic congestion strangling many American cities, passengers, investors, and government planners are all reconsidering railroads. Several new projects have sprung up across the country, aiming to link major cities a few hundred miles apart, where a train might provide a more convenient journey than a plane, car, or bus. Some of these projects are led by state governments, others by private companies. The contrast between the two is dramatic. To illuminate that difference, compare the government-run California High Speed Rail project with Brightline, a new private rail system in Florida.

Approved in 2008, California High Speed Rail (CHSR) was expected to deliver a 520-mile two-track, electrified high-speed railway on an all-new route between Los Angeles and San Francisco by 2029. Fourteen years later, CHSR is now only expected to have a 171-mile single-track section between Madera and Bakersfield will be operational by 2030. Meanwhile the project’s cost has ballooned to $80 billion from an original budget of $33 billion, and costs are expected to rise further to $100 billion, or triple the original budget.

Meanwhile in Florida, a very different kind of passenger railroad is already up and running. Brightline was launched in 2012 by the Florida East Coast Railway, a private freight railroad. Unlike CHSR, Brightline mostly uses existing routes, removing the need to acquire (or appropriate) large amounts of land. Instead of building the whole line before beginning any passenger services (as CHSR is doing), Brightline began construction on a 70-mile section from Miami to West Palm Beach in 2014 and opened it to passengers in 2018. This meant that Brightline already had an operational, revenue-producing service before embarking on the 170-mile northward extension to Orlando Airport. That extension is expected to open in 2023, and the entire project will cost about $1.75 billion, raised through private financing

I've used the high speed rail system in Europe and loved it. It's the best way to travel compared to todays air travel

[frankdtank20]

Always been on government bloat, especially in the US. $1.6 million to install a public toilet in San Francisco. Gotta have studies, environmental impact studies, project management, family members of city council need to be consultants on the "project," no bid contracts with $50-100K cash delivered in envelopes to city council members. 3rd world style corruption and graft in the richest country.

A plan to get high speed rail running from Atlanta to DC was passed in the 1990s. Maybe by 2050 it will be running. Billions have been spent in NC and VA to straighten a few pieces of track and close some intersections. After all that money and a few decades a train from Raleigh to DC is 5.5 hours instead of 6. Such efficiency.

Anyway, so after visiting Disney people can take a train to Miami later this year or vice versa? Sweet.

[Seatard]

The Florida rail project isn't entirely a private endeavor, similar to Disney they were given the authority to issue tax free bonds and the state is providing some maintenance costs. The actual owner is the Japanese SoftBank company.

Still, the point is taken that in the right environment this chit can get done.

[DeshaunWatson]

Can’t wait for the brightline project to finish to Orlando. I’ll definitely be using it

[freeheeler]

Can’t wait for the brightline project to finish to Orlando. I’ll definitely be using it

I can't wait to go from Bakersfield to Modesto in California sometime on the next 30 years



Sarcasm

[BullittEV]

The Florida rail project isn't entirely a private endeavor, similar to Disney they were given the authority to issue tax free bonds and the state is providing some maintenance costs. The actual owner is the Japanese SoftBank company.

Still, the point is taken that in the right environment this chit can get done.

Cot dayum 100 billion lol

I'm sure none of that went into the pockets of the politicians. For sure.

[dakensta]

Government or Private company

California -v- Florida




I've used the high speed rail system in Europe and loved it. It's the best way to travel compared to todays air travel

The rail systems in Europe (not counting the UK, which has the shyttiest rail system in Europe thanks to privatisation) are almost entirely government owned. Just saying.

[Mountaineer92]

only californians would believe the rail system lie for 20 years and keep paying for it. LOVE this for them

[PepperedAngus]

I often wonder when people will get tired of the government wasting their money. Taxes keep going up, services keep going down.

[frankdtank20]

The rail systems in Europe (not counting the UK, which has the shyttiest rail system in Europe thanks to privatisation) are almost entirely government owned. Just saying.

There has been continual more graft in the US, likely by becoming a lower trust culture. Multiculturalism it turns out isn't our strength. I remember reading about a bridge in the US that had to be replaced. It was outrageously expensive. For considerably less money the Swedes built a twice as long bridge with a subway section attached to it.

We complain about our health care costs and 'liberals' associate it with privatization, but even though only around ~35% of our healthcare is paid for by government, the government still spends more per capita than countries with universal healthcare systems. If we get universal healthcare in the US it will still cost a fortune, more than other countries per person. We'd be shifting where it comes from, which is both good and bad. A little off topic, but related because there is so much inefficiency purposely built into US government programs. A lot comes from politicians paying back their supporters. Look no further than who donates heaviest to campaigns. Oh look all banks and pharma companies. What a surprise they get Trillions of tax dollars funneled to them.

Anyway, it's good to Florida bucking the trend. Probably specifically because it's owned by a foreign company.

[isingmodel]

You think European railways are privately owned?

[dakensta]

not a wizard ^^

[BigDeeps01]

The Florida rail project isn't entirely a private endeavor, similar to Disney they were given the authority to issue tax free bonds and the state is providing some maintenance costs. The actual owner is the Japanese SoftBank company.

Still, the point is taken that in the right environment this chit can get done.

Splitting the tiniest of red kunt hairs

This is why I don’t understand people that are in favor of raising taxes in any way. You really think your money will be better spent by the government? I can’t think of any government program or product that is better than its private counterpart (If one exists). Maybe military just due to the size difference but on a per dollar spent metric private military blows it out of the water

[greenleaf]

CA is a car only state. Only poverty-cels take public transportation. Imagine sharing a ride with the cesspool.

[BigDeeps01]

The rail systems in Europe (not counting the UK, which has the shyttiest rail system in Europe thanks to privatisation) are almost entirely government owned. Just saying.

That’s great bud, how is that relevant to those of us in the US again?

[tyqb4]

Aren't these two entirely different projects? LA to SF was supposed to travel at like 200+ mph. The Florida project is using existing infrastructure and travels at less than half the speed.

[Zelensky]

Aren't these two entirely different projects? LA to SF was supposed to travel at like 200+ mph. The Florida project is using existing infrastructure and travels at less than half the speed.

The LA to SF one will never actually be finished though, so it appears that the Florida train going 125 mph is approximately 125 mph faster than the California train, which goes 0 mph.

[Seatard]

Splitting the tiniest of red kunt hairs

This is why I don’t understand people that are in favor of raising taxes in any way. You really think your money will be better spent by the government? I can’t think of any government program or product that is better than its private counterpart (If one exists). Maybe military just due to the size difference but on a per dollar spent metric private military blows it out of the water

I'm in favor of it. Just being factual that it's government done the right way, not government bad private good.

[tyqb4]

The LA to SF one will never actually be finished though, so it appears that the Florida train going 125 mph is approximately 125 mph faster than the California train, which goes 0 mph.

They are different projects with different purposes. Just seems like a silly comparison.

[Zelensky]

They are different projects with different purposes. Just seems like a silly comparison.

Nah, they're both major train projects and very comparable. The difference is that one will be completed and be put to use, the other was just setup to steal taxpayer money and will never serve anyone.

[BigDeeps01]

I'm in favor of it. Just being factual that it's government done the right way, not government bad private good.

That’s great but also irrelevant when talking about the US government

[freeheeler]

The rail systems in Europe (not counting the UK, which has the shyttiest rail system in Europe thanks to privatisation) are almost entirely government owned. Just saying.

I know that

We are just back from the UK which included a trip to Barcelona by train. Even the UK system was punctual and on time unlike anything California has to offer

BART system gets flat wheels when it rains

https://www.kqed.org/news/11853438/c...fleet-delivery

[freeheeler]

You think European railways are privately owned?

Of course not. Jesus you liberals are dumb as ****. I'm well aware of how the system works in Europe. This aimed at the inefficiency and mass corruption in California but I guess that flew over your head

[Seatard]

That’s great but also irrelevant when talking about the US government

Wut? No one is talking about the US government.

[frankdtank20]

Aren't these two entirely different projects? LA to SF was supposed to travel at like 200+ mph. The Florida project is using existing infrastructure and travels at less than half the speed.

And look at the difference. The Florida plan was a decade from concept to completion, at 1/100th the cost of the California plan. The CA HSR might get completed 30 years after it was passed, hopefully just 6x its original cost.

We're supposed to get a commuter rail system locally here, with voters saying yes in 2016. Mostly using existing rail lines, with a little bit of new track. Only now are they beginning to contemplate where it should stop. The first parts of it, 20 miles using existing lines might be ready by 2030 and cost as much as the Florida line, but probably not. Much efficiency.