C*19 Death Rate WAY Lower Than Media Claimed

[J.L.C.]

Thank you for confirming that you shared a paper that was completely and utterly irrelevant in context.

But that is par for the course for you, just derail thread with irrelevant statements.

A claim was made that all viruses evolve to be less virulent:

Viruses always become less virulent, nothing to do with the vaccine.

I countered by saying that claim is not supported by the extant literature and provided support for refuting the claim:

This is a very certain claim that is not supported by the available evidence.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41576-018-0055-5

Then there was a pivot to all coronaviruses evolving to be less virulent:

Coronaviruses always follow this trend though..

Then I countered the argument with support for a coronavirus that did not follow this trend:

The first link you shared listed MERS-CoV

He's a paper showing some strains did not evolve to be less virulent.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2102983118

So it's still looking like "some" not "all" evolve to be less virulent, even if we take the argument switch to focus solely on coronaviruses.

Then we switched over to attempted character attacks:

Thank you for confirming that you shared a paper that was completely and utterly irrelevant in context.

But that is par for the course for you, just derail thread with irrelevant statements.

[Paul Kreul]

I just shared a paper that falsifies that claim and theory.

No..your paper said nothing of Coronaviruses..Every coronavirus (37 of them) all have become weaker over time..

[J.L.C.]

No..your paper said nothing of Coronaviruses..Every coronavirus (37 of them) all have become weaker over time..

MERS-Cov is a coronavirus.

[J.L.C.]

Would you mind sharing how "the vaccine accelerated the mutation process to omicron"?

Or why you missed that, and latched onto a generalized comment that was in response to that, instead?

Rather than addressing anything I said, you now request that I defend someone else's claim?

Another lesson in intellectual honest. Thanks!

[frankdtank20]

MERS-Cov is a coronavirus.

And nearly nonexistent. MERS is deadly enough that it has barely ever spread, and thus the evolutionary pressure to mutate into being less deadly is nearly nonexistent. Way to stay on topic. No wonder these threads get so long. The most likely explanation for Omicron is mutating dozens of times in a South African HIV+ person. There's already documentation of that happening in HIV+ South Africans.

[J.L.C.]

And nearly nonexistent. MERS is deadly enough that it has barely ever spread, and thus the evolutionary pressure to mutate into being less deadly is nearly nonexistent. Way to stay on topic. No wonder these threads get so long.

Paul was asked for support for his claim that all coronaviruses follow the same trajectory as the 6 non-coronaviruses of which he shared a picture.

Or any support that all viruses evolve to be more virulent.

He has not provided support as of yet.

Support was provided to counter the claims that all viruses evolve to be more virulent and the claim that all coronaviruses evolve to be less virulent.

Suggestions for making the claims supportable were also shared. For example: "Some/many viruses evolve to be less virulent."

[Paul Kreul]

MERS-Cov is a coronavirus.

Which has become weaker overtime..

https://www.bu.edu/researchsupport/s...rmation-sheet/

[J.L.C.]

And nearly nonexistent. MERS is deadly enough that it has barely ever spread, and thus the evolutionary pressure to mutate into being less deadly is nearly nonexistent. Way to stay on topic. No wonder these threads get so long. The most likely explanation for Omicron is mutating dozens of times in a South African HIV+ person. There's already documentation of that happening in HIV+ South Africans.

Edit noted.

Regardless, MERS is a coronavirus and it was claimed that all coronaviruses evolve to be less virulent.

[J.L.C.]

Which has become weaker overtime..

https://www.bu.edu/researchsupport/s...rmation-sheet/

The link provided does not support your claim.

[Paul Kreul]

The link provided does not support your claim.

You might want to check those graphs..

https://www.emro.who.int/pandemic-ep...uary-2020.html

[J.L.C.]

You might want to check those graphs..

https://www.emro.who.int/pandemic-ep...uary-2020.html

"The demographic and epidemiological characteristics of reported cases do not show any significant difference or change when compared with the same corresponding periods between 2014 and 2019"

Also, we were talking about virulence.

[Audioslave]

WRONG

That doesn't necessarily prove anything about mutation though. I don't think measles ever even mutated. You can argue that can be more of an infection immunity/ herd immunity chart.

[Paul Kreul]

"The demographic and epidemiological characteristics of reported cases do not show any significant difference or change when compared with the same corresponding periods between 2014 and 2019"

Also, we were talking about virulence.

That’s not what the graph shows..I’ll upload it later this afternoon

[J.L.C.]

That’s not what the graph shows..I’ll upload it later this afternoon

There is more to the poster than a selected "graph". Accompanying text is usually helpful for contextualizing figures.

[Paul Kreul]

There is more to the poster than a selected "graph". Accompanying text is usually helpful for contextualizing figures.

I’d rather go off the data given in the graphs as actual numbers/figures are given rather than a vague text such as the one you posted..but thanks


Like this…




You were saying….?

[Paul Kreul]

Where’d you go JLC…?

[Paul Kreul]

Paul was asked for support for his claim that all coronaviruses follow the same trajectory as the 6 non-coronaviruses of which he shared a picture.

Or any support that all viruses evolve to be more virulent.

He has not provided support as of yet.

Support was provided to counter the claims that all viruses evolve to be more virulent and the claim that all coronaviruses evolve to be less virulent.

Suggestions for making the claims supportable were also shared. For example: "Some/many viruses evolve to be less virulent."

But I just did prove my point, the one coronavirus that you claimed that does not follow the same trajectory(MERS)..actually does..you were wrong..care to retract your comments?

[Weightaholic]

Viruses always become less virulent

No they don't.

[J.L.C.]

I’d rather go off the data given in the graphs as actual numbers/figures are given rather than a vague text such as the one you posted..but thanks


Like this…




You were saying….?

Yes, that's the poster in the link you shared previously

[J.L.C.]

But I just did prove my point, the one coronavirus that you claimed that does not follow the same trajectory(MERS)..actually does..you were wrong..care to retract your comments?

Did you not read the paper I shared?

The poster does not suggest MERS evolved to be less virulent.

[J.L.C.]

But I just did prove my point, the one coronavirus that you claimed that does not follow the same trajectory(MERS)..actually does..you were wrong..care to retract your comments?

Theories cannot be proven, only disproven.

You proposed a an absolute theory. All that is required to disprove such an absolute theory is a singular example that contradicts said theory.

The proposed theory was that all (corona)viruses evolve to be less virulent. Reviewable examples were shared that disproved the theory.

[Weightaholic]

Agreed, it's like it was claimed earlier in this thread, viruses become less virulent because a vaccine makes then mutate a certain way.

No, it's just a blanket statement that was untrue. Viruses generally mutate to become less lethal and more transmissible, but the evolutionary pressure is more heavily skewed to them being more transmissible, rather than more deadly. Ebola and West Nile viruses spring to mind as 2 that have become more deadly. The Spanish flu increased in lethality in its 2nd year before petering out.

Also, the charts as presented are misleading. The quality of medical care in general increased between the late 1800's and the 1960's.

[Paul Kreul]

Did you not read the paper I shared?

The poster does not suggest MERS evolved to be less virulent.

Yes, actually it does, we see less cases/deaths as years progressed..

[J.L.C.]

Agreed.

Now, what do you think about the claim that the "vaccine made covid19 mutate into omicron"?

That is what Paul was responding to.

Paul's response was incorrect.

[J.L.C.]

Interesting. And the claim that the "vaccine made covid19 mutate into omicron" wasn't?

To my knowledge, there isn't much compelling evidence to support the claim that vaccines increase viral evolution/mutations.

What is your take on any of the claims or support offered in this thread?

[Dave22reborn]

No, it's just a blanket statement that was untrue. Viruses generally mutate to become less lethal and more transmissible, but the evolutionary pressure is more heavily skewed to them being more transmissible, rather than more deadly. Ebola and West Nile viruses spring to mind as 2 that have become more deadly. The Spanish flu increased in lethality in its 2nd year before petering out.

Also, the charts as presented are misleading. The quality of medical care in general increased between the late 1800's and the 1960's.

And Herd Immunity ended the Spanish Flu. We didn't lockdown over it, and your ****hole country just dealt with it, instead of draconian measures enforced by the military.

[TitsAlternative]

And Herd Immunity ended the Spanish Flu. We didn't lockdown over it, and your ****hole country just dealt with it, instead of draconian measures enforced by the military.

Bro do you realize how many died to Spanish flu? I don't think you understand the point of herd immunity. Herd immunity is when you vaccinate a bunch of people to achieve population immunity. It isn't letting the virus run rampant through the population like an idiot. Yeah those who survive will have immunity, but you'll have killed the rest off. Maybe you should at least look into epidemiology and public health before opining on it.

[TitsAlternative]

To my knowledge, there isn't much compelling evidence to support the claim that vaccines increase viral evolution/mutations.

What is your take on any of the claims or support offered in this thread?

He never offers any views of his own. He just tries to sealion or troll others. He's also deeply insecure about his lack of intelligence and knowledge. That's why he calls people "pseudo-intellectual".

[Dave22reborn]

Bro do you realize how many died to Spanish flu? I don't think you understand the point of herd immunity. Herd immunity is when you vaccinate a bunch of people to achieve population immunity. It isn't letting the virus run rampant through the population like an idiot. Yeah those who survive will have immunity, but you'll have killed the rest off. Maybe you should at least look into epidemiology and public health before opining on it.

You're right, they should have locked down, and made everyone mask up......

You know how to weaken a child's immune system? By forcing them to live in a bubble, and keeping them away from any human interaction......like you.

If a child sneezed in your face, you'd probably end up in a hospital.

[Dave22reborn]

Quoting this so JLC can correct your untrue statement(s).

He does know that it was diseases/viruses that wiped out the majority of Native Americans.......right?
Viruses they were never exposed to.