have esports stagnated ?

[PowerPal]

or do I just give less of a fawk?


anyone remember when people were hyping them up 5 to 10 years ago that they were gonna be bigger than real sports?

[bongowongo]

Never been interested in it, never will.

[freeburn]

The little recession we are in has effected alot of major organizations. So many of these esports orgs were tied up with crypto investors and what not, and with crypto where it's at alot of them have closed up shop or downsized. 3 or 4 of the biggest orgs just left apex legends completely.

Factor in covid basically just decimating live events for the last 3 years and esports have Def taken a big hit.

It will always be there for those who are interested. Apex legends ALGS Lan tourney is going on in London right now, Ive been watching, it's sick that everyone is finally able to Lan again. But even so, it's still strict with covid rules. But I only watch apex because I actively play it so it's interesting to me.

[Parkerscott]

I dont think theres any games with money for prize pools or that are tournament ready. Lots of games have the playerbase fragmented between a bunch of different BR's which arent exactly good tournament style games to begin with nor properly balanced.

I cant for the life of me think of a game that has released in the past nearly 5 years that has been pretty balanced with a heavy competitive focus. Maybe valorant but I think that came and went pretty quick. Fortnite had a pretty good esport scene but that peaked out years ago and havent seen anything come close. Im sure theres still some DOTA, League, and CSGO tournaments going pretty regularly though.

[WHChampion]

LoL and CSGO seem to be doing fine and have many 1M+ prize pool tournaments every year. They both emulate real sports too in how they develop players, presentation, and consistent tournament structure.

Esports will never compete with like football or basketball but some games viewership already mogs anything outside of the top 8 or 9 sports.

[Muzzlrpress]

Smash could be a revolution if Nintendo wasn't so focused on killing the competitive scene.

[JayJ350]

I think e-sports will just never be that big of a deal in the west for the most part. Like in parts of Asia you got some legitimately huge scenes for games, but in the west it's mostly just streamer events that kids tune into.

Honestly, I think the entire e-sports scene is really divisive among the online gaming community, like some people are all about it, others can't stand it. I think it naturally appeals more towards kids who aspire towards having a career being good at a video game or are simply really into some game and admire people who are really good at it. Among grown adults, it's like they usually move on to pro sports or don't give a chit about competitions.

It's a ridiculously toxic scene as well. You got grown men acting like bratty tweens playing a video game together.

[Parkerscott]

I think e-sports will just never be that big of a deal in the west for the most part. Like in parts of Asia you got some legitimately huge scenes for games, but in the west it's mostly just streamer events that kids tune into.

Honestly, I think the entire e-sports scene is really divisive among the online gaming community, like some people are all about it, others can't stand it. I think it naturally appeals more towards kids who aspire towards having a career being good at a video game or are simply really into some game and admire people who are really good at it. Among grown adults, it's like they usually move on to pro sports or don't give a chit about competitions.

It's a ridiculously toxic scene as well. You got grown men acting like bratty tweens playing a video game together.

New AAA titles have basically been neutering the competitive scene since after Halo 3. The developers basically throw in a ranking system to give people a taste of progression, but the matchmaking is algorithmically based on making sure you have an even win loss ratio and that most players are top heavy. Fortnite was the last big title that I can recall that had a big prize pool, but they started walking back the competitive side of the game as catering to casuals and children is much more lucrative financially.

Competitive gamers need constant balance adjustments and are pretty good at finding game breaking metas, exploits, or if you are a f4g then cheats. As a competitive gamer I can be perfectly fine spending $50 and playing one game for 4 years and never purchase any skins or additional content and if you add some type of paid skin or paid upgrade im going to cry foul knowing I can easily afford it but it creates a P2W barrier for other players.

Competitive gamers can be pretty toxic including myself, but thats just the nature of the game. Casuals just want to jump on for 30 minutes a night, play some chit social lobby against borderline bots and dump $300 on some lord of the rings skin or marvel skin. Theres lots of people like this and they are extremely profitable because they are NPC's and will just consume their goyslop before moving onto the next game leaving the old game a husk of its former self. Amazons New World is a pretty good example of this. Was supposed to be pretty heavy when it came to PvP. Launched with 1m players. The casuals won out, spent a bunch of money on skins for a couple months and moved to the next game. Now theres like 30k players and if they re balanced for PVP they could bring back probably 60-90k more players but they wouldnt spend money on the skins.

The name of the game is to just create lootbox skin collector abandonware as fast and cheap as possible for normie NPCs. Gaming is pretty much dead. I don't think we are ever going to see that H2-H3 era of MLG or WoW type MMO again. The money is in just making goyslop. If someone were to make an extremely good game though they could probably capture like 65% of the gaming market and make billions, but it would be expensive and a huge risk.

[WHChampion]

New AAA titles have basically been neutering the competitive scene since after Halo 3. The developers basically throw in a ranking system to give people a taste of progression, but the matchmaking is algorithmically based on making sure you have an even win loss ratio and that most players are top heavy. Fortnite was the last big title that I can recall that had a big prize pool, but they started walking back the competitive side of the game as catering to casuals and children is much more lucrative financially.

Competitive gamers need constant balance adjustments and are pretty good at finding game breaking metas, exploits, or if you are a f4g then cheats. As a competitive gamer I can be perfectly fine spending $50 and playing one game for 4 years and never purchase any skins or additional content and if you add some type of paid skin or paid upgrade im going to cry foul knowing I can easily afford it but it creates a P2W barrier for other players.

Competitive gamers can be pretty toxic including myself, but thats just the nature of the game. Casuals just want to jump on for 30 minutes a night, play some chit social lobby against borderline bots and dump $300 on some lord of the rings skin or marvel skin. Theres lots of people like this and they are extremely profitable because they are NPC's and will just consume their goyslop before moving onto the next game leaving the old game a husk of its former self. Amazons New World is a pretty good example of this. Was supposed to be pretty heavy when it came to PvP. Launched with 1m players. The casuals won out, spent a bunch of money on skins for a couple months and moved to the next game. Now theres like 30k players and if they re balanced for PVP they could bring back probably 60-90k more players but they wouldnt spend money on the skins.

The name of the game is to just create lootbox skin collector abandonware as fast and cheap as possible for normie NPCs. Gaming is pretty much dead. I don't think we are ever going to see that H2-H3 era of MLG or WoW type MMO again. The money is in just making goyslop. If someone were to make an extremely good game though they could probably capture like 65% of the gaming market and make billions, but it would be expensive and a huge risk.

If you want companies to pour millions into prize pools for tournaments then you need casuals buying skins and lootboxes. Especially years later when they're making almost no money on new game sales and still having to pay for servers.

Nobody wants to go back to the mid 00s era of 10k prize pools.

[freeburn]

If you want companies to pour millions into prize pools for tournaments then you need casuals buying skins and lootboxes. Especially years later when they're making almost no money on new game sales and still having to pay for servers.

Nobody wants to go back to the mid 00s era of 10k prize pools.

Sorta this.

It's a bit double edged, but he's right. The algs (apex legends pro league) just had a 1 million dollar prize pool. And these days most pro players (depending on the game ofc) are able to make livable wages with their contracts.

[Parkerscott]

If you want companies to pour millions into prize pools for tournaments then you need casuals buying skins and lootboxes. Especially years later when they're making almost no money on new game sales and still having to pay for servers.

Nobody wants to go back to the mid 00s era of 10k prize pools.

Sorta this.

It's a bit double edged, but he's right. The algs (apex legends pro league) just had a 1 million dollar prize pool. And these days most pro players (depending on the game ofc) are able to make livable wages with their contracts.

I think the monetization schemes and game content just need to be adjusted. You have to take into consideration the mid 2000's era. The market at that time was teenagers with an xbox or 360 and online play was a pretty new invention. Prior to that everything was LAN or local split screen and a lot of titles were single player/co-op story games. Less people played videogames and you couldn't make a living off streaming cheat content or winning prize pools. Games were also only on disks and the developers lost money on distribution fees to retailers. Everyone is now terminally online.

Some of these newer games and monetization schemes aren't without risk either, and just because you build for casuals or competitive doesn't mean you will get them. The biggest problem is that these game directors have lost sight of the industry. For them its about low risk and making as much profit as possible. Its not about making a fun game. What ends up happening is that neither happens. Making a fun game though can bring in insane amounts of profit. I look at the game industry right now and I don't think I have seen anything worth playing in the last 5 years or anything good coming out 2 years from now.

Halo infinite is a good example of what would be considered low risk absolutely flopping, and I think some of these other titles are on the same path. You can't just keep repackaging the same thing and coast off skin sales.

Chess doesn't have good graphics and has a pretty good prize pool and its hundreds of years old lmao. You take a look at steamcharts right now and the market looks bleak. People are spread thin deciding if they want to eat dog**** with corn in it or if they rather have dog**** with peanuts in it.

One of the biggest compliments I have heard from that new COD is that theres a proximity chat where you can hear other players. Thats it. Thats the killer feature. Thats how low gaming has come. Fortnite quickly threw together their BR mode as basically a side game and it became the most popular game in the world due to its lootcrack for children and build mechanics. It was a fun fking game. They had the entire market by the balls and made billions for years just off skins. They could have made the game $10 a month to play and you get a 50% discount for buying a year subscription and still offered skins and they wouldn't see a major drop in sales or players. The graphics were basically low poly cartoons also. The gameplay was fun though.

Developers need to bring back paid games and subscriptions but make the games actually fun and experiment with new mechanics. You can't just make BR #14 or fast twitch arena shooter #18 and expect to keep players consistently buying your loot boxes. Fortnite had like 15m concurrent players at one point. Theres AAA titles that launch and cant hold over 75k for 3 months. Everything is stale goyslop. You can build stuff that will attract whales or people who will happily pay for a subscription as long as the games fun.

[rectifryer]

Its one of the worst aspects of any hobby culture ever. It has directly made the world a worse place.

[rectifryer]

Casuals just want to jump on for 30 minutes a night, play some chit social lobby against borderline bots and dump $300 on some lord of the rings skin or marvel skin. Theres lots of people like this and they are extremely profitable because they are NPC's and will just consume their goyslop

bro you're calling people who casually goys when you're the one working it like a second job

that's everything wrong with modern gaming

Back in the 80s these people would be called nerds and shoved in the lockers for not touching grass and debasing their own reality.

[JayJ350]

Its one of the worst aspects of any hobby culture ever. It has directly made the world a worse place.

Based and well stated lol. It truly has been the worst thing to ever happen to video games.

[Parkerscott]

bro you're calling people who casually goys when you're the one working it like a second job

that's everything wrong with modern gaming

Back in the 80s these people would be called nerds and shoved in the lockers for not touching grass and debasing their own reality.

They had single player games, LAN/Split screen support, and social playlists for people that only played a little or sucked at the game. The problem with modern gaming is that there used to be a competitive scene but now everyone is a winner. Most people want to win. These games are now matchmaking good players with bad players instead of putting them in their own separate brackets.

What you are advocating for is taking something like Football, Basketball, Baseball and saying "ok theres a lot of people that like these sports and not everyone plays at a high level, so to make things more equitable we are going to disband the MLB, NFL, NBA and we are going to combine them with womens leagues and everyone is free to join the roster. We also want everyone to win so we are going to give this guy who lost his last five games Tom Brady on his team and hes going to play against a team full of women because our game data says this should all but guarantee a win and he will keep playing at our goystadiums and purchase goyjerseys. We believe that everyone should be able to enjoy the game and competitive behavior is detrimental to the culture and progression of the sport."

The competitive aspect of gaming fell off around 2010. I don't think anyone can name a massive competitive title since then till now or that has had "competitive toxicity" bleed over more than the peak era prior to 2010. Yeah games might have their MLG type players, but thats because they have nowhere to go and no outlet. Casuals have 1000+ titles to choose from and will abandon it as quick as they picked it up. Theres still competitive gamers playing h3 which is like 15 years old at this point.