Genetic reasons for very poor results?

[jkr2302]

Hi there. So a bit of background, I started lifting when I turned 18 but really started a program about 6 months later. At the time I was getting stronger. I was very weak and skinny, starting around 60kg (132lbs) @ 178cm (5'10) - Note I have a small frame with 6 inch wrists. I was at university and drinking a lot, not sleeping great, and undereating. I started taking things more seriously the summer I turned 19 but then COVID came so gyms went away, but when I was almost 20 I was ready to fully commit. It's been 2 years of counting macros, hitting protein goals, gaining weight, and following proper workout plans, but I was unable to progressively overload most of the time despite gaining weight. Ultimately my lifts went up a little, although I attribute this mostly to cheating reps through poor form, but I gained mostly fat. I'm 22 now and have been giving the gym 100%, but I seem to mostly put on fat & not get stronger. My goal is size / hypertrophy to be clear, not strength so weights on Olympic lifts don't matter to me as much as having an aesthetic body does. It's incredibly demotivating to have been effectively going to the gym for 4 years and getting the results some get in a couple of months, especially since I started from nothing so I'm still relatively small. I have gotten stronger overall since I started, it's just my progress has been extremely slow, and some areas have effectively not grown at all e.g. hamstrings, triceps, shoulders. It's got me questioning if I have something genetically wrong with me, because even if I wasn't always perfect on training / recovery I should have gotten more results by now. For reference I'm at 72kg at about 18-22% bodyfat (hard to tell), I've bulked and cut a few times due to just getting fat and putting on negligible muscle. I got my free testosterone tested and it was middle of the range, so it's not that. Ultimately I'm not looking for pity and I'm going to keep trying my hardest, I'd just like to know if there's anyone out there who's been in a similar position - what did you do, did you make it? Do you know of anyone like me who did everything right (not saying I do but I probably have the basics of sleep/calories/protein/training 80% right) but still progressed extremely slowly / not at all?

Just a reminder: I don't have a problem with gaining weight (I did at the start but not anymore), but I can't progressively overload despite being in a calorie surplus and I think this leads to just fat gain

[radrd]

What program are you following?

[jkr2302]

What program are you following?

Currently on PHAT for ~ 1 month, having been on 5/3/1 BBB before that for ~ 8 months

[air2fakie]

If you cared more about strength and your big lifts, you’d see results in your muscle size.

[jkr2302]

If you cared more about strength and your big lifts, you’d see results in your muscle size.

Thing is I was focussed on strength because I thought getting stronger -> getting bigger e.g. I was doing 5/3/1 trying to hit the reps each week. I think 2 things were going on 1) I wasn't able to progressively overload, so I wasn't getting stronger and 2) when I was getting stronger (ocasionally), it was through neural adaption as opposed to muscle gain

[air2fakie]

Thing is I was focussed on strength because I thought getting stronger -> getting bigger e.g. I was doing 5/3/1 trying to hit the reps each week. I think 2 things were going on 1) I wasn't able to progressively overload, so I wasn't getting stronger and 2) when I was getting stronger (ocasionally), it was through neural adaption as opposed to muscle gain

Actually, in your OP, you said you don’t care about strength or what your lifts are. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It’s more likely that you’re a pussy than that you have a genetic disorder that doesn’t allow you to gain strength or muscle. Not trying to be mean, just keeping it real that you’re probably not doing everything “right” as you say, especially in terms of effort and intestinal fortitude.

Try a program with a less aggressive progression protocol.

[jkr2302]

Actually, in your OP, you said you don’t care about strength or what your lifts are. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It’s more likely that you’re a pussy than that you have a genetic disorder that doesn’t allow you to gain strength or muscle. Not trying to be mean, just keeping it real that you’re probably not doing everything “right” as you say, especially in terms of effort and intestinal fortitude.

Try a program with a less aggressive progression protocol.

I meant that I only now realise I don't care about strength. Up until about a month ago strength was my primary goal in training (with aesthetics being my ultimate goal). I'm not offended, I have upped my intensity recently and have realised when I thought I was training hard it wasn't as hard as I thought, and I know I'm not doing everything right, but as for recovery I gain weight at ~0.3kg/week, get 150g of protein, and sleep 7 hours minimum, but most often 8-9. I'll take your advice about progression though, I do think I may need something slower.

[paulinkansas]

I was 5'8" and 136 pounds when I turned 18. Once I got on a real program I started putting the muscle on. Been following the Fierce 5 after a 25 year deload. My join date on this forum is when I started lifting after the deload.

[jkr2302]

I was 5'8" and 136 pounds when I turned 18. Once I got on a real program I started putting the muscle on. Been following the Fierce 5 after a 25 year deload. My join date on this forum is when I started lifting after the deload.

25 year deload? As listed above, I have been on real programs, but I'm unable to progress along with them

[paulinkansas]

Yes, a 25 year deload.

Try a different program for 8-12 months. If that doesn't work take a deload and try another program. Fierce 5, All Pro, Coolcicada. I take most of my sets to where proper form breaks down. I don't cheat to get another rep or two in. You can also tweak your set repetitions. The minimum I'll do is 12. I work my way up to 20. I'm a feeble little 55 year old guy as you can see.

[jkr2302]

Yes, a 25 year deload.

Try a different program for 8-12 months. If that doesn't work take a deload and try another program. Fierce 5, All Pro, Coolcicada. I take most of my sets to where proper form breaks down. I don't cheat to get another rep or two in. You can also tweak your set repetitions. The minimum I'll do is 12. I work my way up to 20. I'm a feeble little 55 year old guy as you can see.

Thanks, I guess i'll keep trying then. I'll check out Fierce 5 although I think PHAT is fine

[paulinkansas]

Thanks, I guess i'll keep trying then. I'll check out Fierce 5 although I think PHAT is fine

I Googled the PHAT routine and this showed up:

https://advancedbodymetrics.com/work...mass-strength/

One week of that routine is more volume than I do in a month. More isn't always better. That could be your problem. 8 working sets per bodypart is all I do in a week.

[BeginnerGainz]

People should really just eject the word “aesthetics” from their heads permanently. That has got to be the most feminine ass sh!t I hear on a regular basis. Not a knock against OP personally but good god I hate that bodybuilding as permeated every facet of fitness.

And you do NOT have to do the Olympic lifts or their many dirty sounding variations. (Really, why must they all sound so downright sexual?)

Get stronger at an upper push, upper pull, squat pattern and hinge pattern. Rotate new variations in as the others stall. And that will take care of the vast majority of your gains!

Sprinkle in some fluff if time and recovery allows. By fluff, I mean anything that isn’t a main, big compound movement. Preferably free weight or at very least on a smith machine.

Don’t waste time worrying about “aesthetics” lmao…

Just get big and strong and let the muscle you build fall wear your genetics already predetermined it to.

GST “growth stimulus training” in the stickies is a GREAT place to start.

Edit: Oh yeah, make sure you’re EATING. There are calculators online to help with caloric intake.

[jkr2302]

One week of that routine is more volume than I do in a month. More isn't always better. That could be your problem. 8 working sets per bodypart is all I do in a week.[/QUOTE] I think through just trial and error I can recover fine from higher volume, as low volume workouts seem to do nothing for me. If nothing else I'm just trying out higher volume ATM as I've done mostly low volume before.

[BeginnerGainz]

I think through just trial and error I can recover fine from higher volume, as low volume workouts seem to do nothing for me. If nothing else I'm just trying out higher volume ATM as I've done mostly low volume before.

What are some of your main lifts and how much can you lift for 1-5 reps?

[jkr2302]

People should really just eject the word “aesthetics” from their heads permanently. That has got to be the most feminine ass sh!t I hear on a regular basis. Not a knock against OP personally but good god I hate that bodybuilding as permeated every facet of fitness.

And you do NOT have to do the Olympic lifts or their many dirty sounding variations. (Really, why must they all sound so downright sexual?)

Get stronger at an upper push, upper pull, squat pattern and hinge pattern. Rotate new variations in as the others stall. And that will take care of the vast majority of your gains!

Sprinkle in some fluff if time and recovery allows. By fluff, I mean anything that isn’t a main, big compound movement. Preferably free weight or at very least on a smith machine.

Don’t waste time worrying about “aesthetics” lmao…

Just get big and strong and let the muscle you build fall wear your genetics already predetermined it to.

GST “growth stimulus training” in the stickies is a GREAT place to start.

Edit: Oh yeah, make sure you’re EATING. There are calculators online to help with caloric intake.

Well isn't bodybuilding about aesthetics? I mean thats my goal, to look good not to lift heavy - I understand they go hand in hand but hypertrophy specific training is what I'm aiming for. I agree on the compounds, I've replaced Barbell back squats with dumbbell bulgarian split squats due to a hip impingement (xray verified), and have stopped deadlifting altogether. I still barbell bench and OHP. If you only train big movements though things like arms and calves are left behind.

[paulinkansas]

People

You have a very aesthetic back.

[jkr2302]

What are some of your main lifts and how much can you lift for 1-5 reps?

I have since stopped Barbell Squatting (hip impingement) & Deadlifting (too taxing on lower back) but this is what I was doing before

ORMs
Squat 105kg
Bench 90kg
Deadlift 140kg
OHP 40kg
Row 70kg <- This one is tricky as the form isn't great

[xsquid99]

My best sequence of gains came after running Coolcicadas PPL for almost a year. Now I basically run a modified variation of it but as an U/L/P/P/L. I keep volume low, roughly 12-15 working sets per workout is about it.

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...9807833&page=1

Gains come slow OP, much slower for some than others depending on genetics, training, effort, and nutrition. Your post is kind of all over the place, saying you were in college and drinking a lot, which says to me that your training and nutrition during that time was sub-optimal. Fix your nutrition, eat a diet primarily based in whole foods, train CONSISTENTLY (4-6 days per week), and lift with effort and focus. Track your lifts so you know exactly what you lifted the time before for how many reps, and if you don't progress for 2 straight weeks then drop the weight by 15% and restart the sequence.

[BeginnerGainz]

Well isn't bodybuilding about aesthetics? I mean thats my goal, to look good not to lift heavy - I understand they go hand in hand but hypertrophy specific training is what I'm aiming for. I agree on the compounds, I've replaced Barbell back squats with dumbbell bulgarian split squats due to a hip impingement (xray verified), and have stopped deadlifting altogether. I still barbell bench and OHP. If you only train big movements though things like arms and calves are left behind.

As a natural, you will not be able to get bigger (read that as more aesthetic if you’d like) without getting stronger. Point blank.

I don’t think it is advisable to completely replace a bilateral movement like a squat variation with a single leg movement, for a variety of reasons.

If you can’t do a deadlift, there are other hinge variations, but I’d work on a way to make them suck for your lower back less. Normally when someone says that, usually it means something is off about their execution of the movement (usually the set up, in the case of the deadlift).

[jkr2302]

As a natural, you will not be able to get bigger (read that as more aesthetic if you’d like) without getting stronger. Point blank.

I don’t think it is advisable to completely replace a bilateral movement like a squat variation with a single leg movement, for a variety of reasons.

Point taken. As for the squat, I also do hack squats and leg press to supplement the split squats, and may progress the split squats to barbell too

[BeginnerGainz]

Point taken. As for the squat, I also do hack squats and leg press to supplement the split squats, and may progress the split squats to barbell too

Sounds reasonable.