Russia vs Ukraine Thread VII- Frozen mud pie edition: Come meet the bots and shills

[Stalinshugedick]

Maybe. Id be ok with this. But it would just lead to conflict down the road, this way we have the conflict out of the way. And whoever wins will have the land. Ukraine was never going to willingly give Donbas/Crimea.

That's the problem with ultranationalists. Minsk 2 would have literally left Donbass as part of Ukraine, just autonomous. Even Crimea might have been able to be worked out as another lease in exchange for restored relations and sanctions relief. Everything is a disaster because of the Ukrainian hardliners and the conniving fuks in US state department.

[Stizzel]

What? All institutions override human nature. It isn't even natural to wear clothes. You understand that right? Rape and murder are natural.

The whole privatize everything for competition sounds good until you realize those private orgs are obligated to stakeholders for short term gains and not the general public. That's how you get cancer causing chit in your food and water.

A huge chunk of the economy can and should be controlled and/or regulated by the state to make it remotely safe.

Human nature, not 'nature'. You're supposed to be a math guy but the logic behimd this eludes you entirely. Any human institution is going to fail at overcoming human nature as human nature will inevitably be involved in its creation and administration. The fact that you acknowledge the necesity of murder to carry it out proves this. You know that if implementing your plan to create utopia is prohibited from authoritarian measures and must treat all people involved as equaks insofar as their ability to accept or reject your proposal it is an immediate failure.

This knowledge of guaranteed rejection is the source of the angst inherent to all communists and is the source of its violent history.

[Kane_89]

The situation literally existed with Trump in office and did not lead to a war.

It never led to war because the expectation from Russia was that Ukraine would be "handed over" in Trump's second term. Putin knew Biden would never do such a thing, so he immediately made plans to take it by force.

Youre telling me with a straight face that all Putin's issues with Ukrainian "nazi's", corruption, Zelensky, and NATO on its borders would all of a sudden not be an issue anymore? lol

[memcop]

If he had won 2nd term, the buildup would have freaked him out. And he already hated Bolton and friends. He would have looked more carefully at Putin's demands. But one of two things would have happened:

He would have made peace.

Or

He would have conceded to Putin, and then Putin would have laughed and fuked Ukraine anyway.

It's hard to know which would happen. My gut tells me the former, but you never know.

I do not believe Putin wants this. He feels it is necessary. How can any Russian want this?

Ukraine was doomed regardless of who would have been president. They were shoved to the front of a winless and tragic situation to which we are seeing an inevitable consequence.

In either case Russia is a major power we have lost relations with and is now part of a larger and more costly axis countering the US.

There are many other injustices in the world much more worthy of our attention than a conventional conflict we are not allied with, proof it is much more intentional than "justice."

[Stalinshugedick]

Human nature, not 'nature'. You're supposed to be a math guy but the logic behimd this eludes you entirely. Any human institution is going to fail at overcoming human nature as human nature will inevitably be involved in its creation and administration. The fact that you acknowledge the necesity of murder to carry it out proves this. You know that if implementing your plan to create utopia is prohibited from authoritarian measures and must treat all people involved as equaks insofar as their ability to accept or reject your proposal it is an immediate failure.

This knowledge of guaranteed rejection is the source of the angst inherent to all communists and is the source of its violent history.

Some institutions are better than none. Some public ones can be made better than private ones, while others are better left private. (Example is police and military for public, while restaurants and consumer goods ought be private (but regulated).) We can implement balances of power to make sure the institutions remain uncorrupted.

Force and the threat of killing is required to enforce everything, including the institutions of private markets you celebrate. The current status quo is using violence to impose its system as we speak.

And I am not a communist. What Sachs is proposing is social democracy, not communism. You might say I am a communist in modern CCP terms, but even there, I would never propose its system on America. It can't work here. We need social democracy.

My proposal isn't a utopia. It's literally achievable.

[memcop]

It never led to war because the expectation from Russia was that Ukraine would be "handed over" in Trump's second term. Putin knew Biden would never do such a thing, so he immediately made plans to take it by force.

Youre telling me with a straight face that all Putin's issues with Ukrainian "nazi's", corruption, Zelensky, and NATO on its borders would all of a sudden not be an issue anymore? lol

You're horrible at debate because you're a dishonest person of low character.

I very clearly ended your position and then you made up some nonsense about Ukraine being handed over in Trump's second term.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish, work on your self esteem and try to follow some basic principles of manhood, you'll be much less miserable, even if you're ugly, I promise.

[memcop]

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