REJOICE - Sony and Microsoft do not plan to release any new consoles until 2028

[WiseOldApe]

Still cant even find ps5s in stores. Still barely any ps5/series x only games.

makes sense. I dont even see why we'd need a pro at this point. Nothing has come close to even pushing the base models to capacity

Bruh most of those top tier games are not hitting 4k at all, but 1440p instead - like I said, it's the same as a 2019 5700XT except it has some RT.

It would need to utilize a next gen 7700XT or equivalent to make any drastic improvements to dat performance.

[Coal Man]

Miskka, I'd be hopin that they release a pro version ASAP so that it can actually render 4K with RT, etc - hoping the pro gets released asap but 2024 is the likely date of release.

Cool discussion so far but just to be clear on this one, the PS5 is $500/550. Consoles have very basic and limited forms of RT. To do what you're expecting this PS5 pro to do, it would have to cost as much as a 4080/4090 PC, aka in the thousands which is not possible at this time.

@mgftp I think this gen of consoles, including a theoretic ps5 pro would never be able to use the kind of RT you're talking about. We can do RT for puddles and reflections and basic stuff if we sacrifice a ton of performance but some super impressive global lighting systems ain't happening until PS6. Only the best PCs are just starting to do this. I agree with you and would like to see this in my gaming too but right now it's way too much of a hit to performance and as @phaginator said I think the way ahead for this gen is some really well implemented old school lighting methods.

[WiseOldApe]

Cool discussion so far but just to be clear on this one, the PS5 is $500/550. Consoles have very basic and limited forms of RT. To do what you're expecting this PS5 pro to do, it would have to cost as much as a 4080/4090 PC, aka in the thousands which is not possible at this time.

@mgftp I think this gen of consoles, including a theoretic ps5 pro would never be able to use the kind of RT you're talking about. We can do RT for puddles and reflections and basic stuff if we sacrifice a ton of performance but some super impressive global lighting systems ain't happening until PS6. Only the best PCs are just starting to do this. I agree with you and would like to see this in my gaming too but right now it's way too much of a hit to performance and as @phaginator said I think the way ahead for this gen is some really well implemented old school lighting methods.

Of course not, that's why I said that a 7700XT or equivalent would be the 'next step' in terms of GPU implementation for the playstation console.

5700XT > 6700XT is a bit of an improvement, so projecting from that, a 7700XT could MAYBE render games at native 4K on a playstation if they'd made a 'high power' orr 'high performance/low efficiency' mode available.

It would be the equivalent of the original PS4 being superseded by and upgraded to the PS4 slim and especially the PS4 Pro - where both latter iterations of the console received buffed up processors.

FYI: I was looking at some AMD card results and a 6750XT which is an OC'ed version of a 6700XT can hit 6800 numbers.

AMD's 5700 and 5700XT were only different due to the BIOS/firmware on the card, but he 6xxx series' XT cards all have a greater number of physical processing units - whilst the 6700xt and 6750XT are only differing in BIOS/firmware of card.

[WiseOldApe]

Cool discussion so far but just to be clear on this one, the PS5 is $500/550. Consoles have very basic and limited forms of RT. To do what you're expecting this PS5 pro to do, it would have to cost as much as a 4080/4090 PC, aka in the thousands which is not possible at this time.

@mgftp I think this gen of consoles, including a theoretic ps5 pro would never be able to use the kind of RT you're talking about. We can do RT for puddles and reflections and basic stuff if we sacrifice a ton of performance but some super impressive global lighting systems ain't happening until PS6. Only the best PCs are just starting to do this. I agree with you and would like to see this in my gaming too but right now it's way too much of a hit to performance and as @phaginator said I think the way ahead for this gen is some really well implemented old school lighting methods.

Of course not, that's why I said that a 7700XT or equivalent would be the 'next step' in terms of GPU implementation for the playstation console.

5700XT > 6700XT is a bit of an improvement, so projecting from that, a 7700XT could MAYBE render games at native 4K on a playstation if they'd made a 'high power' orr 'high performance/low efficiency' mode available.

It would be the equivalent of the original PS4 being superseded by and upgraded to the PS4 slim and especially the PS4 Pro - where both latter iterations of the console received buffed up processors.

FYI: I was looking at some AMD card results and a 6750XT which is an OC'ed version of a 6700XT can hit 6800 numbers.

AMD's 5700 and 5700XT were only different due to the BIOS/firmware on the card, but he 6xxx series' XT cards all have a greater number of physical processing units - whilst the 6700xt and 6750XT are only differing in BIOS/firmware of card.

Here are the stats to back up the above claims - feel free to investigate further.

4K gaming.



1440p gaming.

[MiamiLife305]

no wonder.. 2 years in and they still releasing cross gen games, probably another 2 just to get games that somewhat take full advantage of the console tech

full advantage?

like what?

consoles cant even do 4k60fps unless its an indie game

Here are the stats to back up the above claims - feel free to investigate further.

4K gaming.



1440p gaming.

and this

consoles cannot do 4k60 fps

its a joke

[Coal Man]

Of course not, that's why I said that a 7700XT or equivalent would be the 'next step' in terms of GPU implementation for the playstation console.

5700XT > 6700XT is a bit of an improvement, so projecting from that, a 7700XT could MAYBE render games at native 4K on a playstation if they'd made a 'high power' orr 'high performance/low efficiency' mode available.

It would be the equivalent of the original PS4 being superseded by and upgraded to the PS4 slim and especially the PS4 Pro - where both latter iterations of the console received buffed up processors.

FYI: I was looking at some AMD card results and a 6750XT which is an OC'ed version of a 6700XT can hit 6800 numbers.

AMD's 5700 and 5700XT were only different due to the BIOS/firmware on the card, but he 6xxx series' XT cards all have a greater number of physical processing units - whilst the 6700xt and 6750XT are only differing in BIOS/firmware of card.

Okay I'm a console pleb and you went full PC nerd on me. Dial it back.

So break it down for the layman. You're saying the equivalent upgrade for the PS5 pro which will give us tons of room to play with RT will be the 7700XT which is more than double the PS5s power and cost more than the entire current PS5 just for the card alone. Sony releases consoles with budget in mind, their most expensive console was the ps3 @600 and that got major backlash for its price.

Let's put the PS5 pro price limit at $600 and here's my question to you. How many years from now do you think we need before Sony is able to sell a 7700XT equivalent console for $600?

[rectifryer]

at this point the industry needs better displays and framerates. Resolution is not a limiting factor.

[phaginator]

Nerds are talking about "muh higher resolution" and "muh ray tracing".

Meanwhile I care more about better AI and physics.

Btw am I the only on who's still fine gaming on 1080p?

[BearyManilowe]

It's just that some people have a poverty mindset where they feel good when everybody is 'even', but really they want to stop the advancement of the human race, so that they are even with those 'above' them.

Imagine being such a tech nerd incel that you equate being satisfied with games as wanting to stop the advancement of the human race.

DumbAssApe seems to be a more accurate moniker.

Nerds are talking about "muh higher resolution" and "muh ray tracing".

Meanwhile I care more about better AI and physics.

Btw am I the only on who's still fine gaming on 1080p?

Nah, you're about in line with I'd say 90% of the gaming populous. You gotta remember that all your Twitter bots, reddit bots, and PC Mega Nerds (not just PC gamers) only account for +/- 5% of the gaming population. Something like 60% of gamers alone don't even have 4k TVs

[mgftp]

All you dry diked PCcels throwing around all this nerd chit. All I know is double the GPU will give me more capability and I want it.

[blissful88]

Nerds are talking about "muh higher resolution" and "muh ray tracing".

Meanwhile I care more about better AI and physics.

Btw am I the only on who's still fine gaming on 1080p?

Agree about the AI from NPC's(AKA miscers) there are AAA titles coming out with worse AI than games from 20 years ago

Sad!


1080p doesn't bother me personally but people need to move on from that 2005 resolution; srsly my CRT ran @ 1920x1200(still prefer CRT's crew)

1440p-4K is gaining roughly 1% user-share per month according to Steam, it's been increasing steadily since 2020


Ray tracing? I keep turning it on in games but never notice a difference until I stop & stare at a reflection or something

Rasterized lighting & shadows became photo-realistic about 8 years ago so it's hard to tell the difference when you've been gaming on Ultra that long

You gotta remember that all your Twitter bots, reddit bots, and PC Mega Nerds (not just PC gamers) only account for +/- 5% of the gaming population.

There's over 2 billion PC gamers as of 2020, it's likely much higher going into 2023

[eod8989]

Series X runs 4k/60 fps on every game i've tried just fine

[OptimusTrajan]

Agree about the AI from NPC's(AKA miscers) there are AAA titles coming out with worse AI than games from 20 years ago

Sad!


1080p doesn't bother me personally but people need to move on from that 2005 resolution; srsly my CRT ran @ 1920x1200(still prefer CRT's crew)

1440p-4K is gaining roughly 1% user-share per month according to Steam, it's been increasing steadily since 2020


Ray tracing? I keep turning it on in games but never notice a difference until I stop & stare at a reflection or something

Rasterized lighting & shadows became photo-realistic about 8 years ago so it's hard to tell the difference when you've been gaming on Ultra that long




There's over 2 billion PC gamers as of 2020, it's likely much higher going into 2023

Then your CRT was a 10k Sony PVM designed for news stations.

[WiseOldApe]

Okay I'm a console pleb and you went full PC nerd on me. Dial it back.

So break it down for the layman. You're saying the equivalent upgrade for the PS5 pro which will give us tons of room to play with RT will be the 7700XT which is more than double the PS5s power and cost more than the entire current PS5 just for the card alone. Sony releases consoles with budget in mind, their most expensive console was the ps3 @600 and that got major backlash for its price.

Let's put the PS5 pro price limit at $600 and here's my question to you. How many years from now do you think we need before Sony is able to sell a 7700XT equivalent console for $600?

It's not about raytracing, but about hitting 4k at 60 fps, which means that those brahs with a 65 inch OLED can enjoy some real alpha gaming.

Right now the games are rendered at 1440p and upscaled to 4k and with crappier graphics - the thing is people can't tell since they've never owned a 'higher end' PC, but once you do play a higher end PC it's sort of like the old 'one you go black, you never go back' type thing... although I don't know how true that is, since I am more attracted to a person rather than the skin colour.

The reason that I say 7700XT simple because it's the same class as a current PS5's GPU, but much stronger - i mean they COULD put something even bigger, but at that point, like you pointed out, the power draw is too much...

The crazy thing about a PS5 is that they don't even charge 'that much' for you to buy one - if you'd tried building an equivalent PC, you'd be paying at minimum 125% more than a ps5's rrp, but more likely twice the price of the console...

This is because Sony does not really aim to profit off of the console, but from the games and services that it offers.

In fact a PS5 is really a PC with sony's custom OS on it... for the price or a PS5, you'd buy such a crappy laptop that it would barely function....

at this point the industry needs better displays and framerates. Resolution is not a limiting factor.

Have you tried playing the PS5 on a 65 inch plus display?

Nerds are talking about "muh higher resolution" and "muh ray tracing".

Meanwhile I care more about better AI and physics.

Btw am I the only on who's still fine gaming on 1080p?

Yeah 1080p is fine on my laptop

Imagine being such a tech nerd incel that you equate being satisfied with games as wanting to stop the advancement of the human race.

DumbAssApe seems to be a more accurate moniker.



Nah, you're about in line with I'd say 90% of the gaming populous. You gotta remember that all your Twitter bots, reddit bots, and PC Mega Nerds (not just PC gamers) only account for +/- 5% of the gaming population. Something like 60% of gamers alone don't even have 4k TVs

A wise old man once told me that how you do one thing is how you do everything.

That guy probably thinks that he's progressing if he finds a way to hold the people around him down as well and then when somebody outside of his circle evolves further, he just hates them...

Seen it all too many times for some pleb to change my mind.

All you dry diked PCcels throwing around all this nerd chit. All I know is double the GPU will give me more capability and I want it.

It doesn't quite work like that... there was a lot of advancement from the 2013/2016 playstation 4 to the playstation 5 in terms of GPUs

im emulating psp games and playing some older steam games right now on PC. xbox and ps4 arent even plugged in, and im sick of most modern games; seem so repetitive. ill be picking up startfield probably and COD MW2 when its 20 bucks

Yeah sometimes old is gold - I just downloaded splinter cell for free!

Series X runs 4k/60 fps on every game i've tried just fine

Yeah but not a native 4k - it's like how the PS4 would render assassin's creed at 720p or some crap and i thought it was 1080p

[eod8989]

It's not about raytracing, but about hitting 4k at 60 fps, which means that those brahs with a 65 inch OLED can enjoy some real alpha gaming.

Right now the games are rendered at 1440p and upscaled to 4k and with crappier graphics - the thing is people can't tell since they've never owned a 'higher end' PC, but once you do play a higher end PC it's sort of like the old 'one you go black, you never go back' type thing... although I don't know how true that is, since I am more attracted to a person rather than the skin colour.

The reason that I say 7700XT simple because it's the same class as a current PS5's GPU, but much stronger - i mean they COULD put something even bigger, but at that point, like you pointed out, the power draw is too much...

The crazy thing about a PS5 is that they don't even charge 'that much' for you to buy one - if you'd tried building an equivalent PC, you'd be paying at minimum 125% more than a ps5's rrp, but more likely twice the price of the console...

This is because Sony does not really aim to profit off of the console, but from the games and services that it offers.

In fact a PS5 is really a PC with sony's custom OS on it... for the price or a PS5, you'd buy such a crappy laptop that it would barely function....

Have you tried playing the PS5 on a 65 inch plus display?

Yeah 1080p is fine on my laptop

A wise old man once told me that how you do one thing is how you do everything.

That guy probably thinks that he's progressing if he finds a way to hold the people around him down as well and then when somebody outside of his circle evolves further, he just hates them...

Seen it all too many times for some pleb to change my mind.

It doesn't quite work like that... there was a lot of advancement from the 2013/2016 playstation 4 to the playstation 5 in terms of GPUs

Yeah sometimes old is gold - I just downloaded splinter cell for free!

Yeah but not a native 4k - it's like how the PS4 would render assassin's creed at 720p or some crap and i thought it was 1080p

Damn it tricked me then because it looks like the resolution is pretty close to 4k but with medium textures in performance mode

[WiseOldApe]

Damn it tricked me then because it looks like the resolution is pretty close to 4k but with medium textures in performance mode

Brah you should see what some of those higher end GPUs are doing at 4K ultra settings plus raytracing...

That's what I mean though, that the next gen orr refresh just needs to hit 60fps at 4k or there abouts and it's all sweet.

The only issue is when you're playing on a 65-75 inch screen and it becomes apparent...

Crap you could get away with a true 1080p on a 65 inch screen if you sit back far enough, but who wouldn't want 4k @ native?

[R3L3NTL3SS]

All you dry diked PCcels throwing around all this nerd chit. All I know is double the GPU will give me more capability and I want it.

I mean wasn't the PS4 Pro to PS5 well over double the GPU...and CPU...


...yet the games haven't really been double the performance or look twice as good...

[R3L3NTL3SS]

Series X runs 4k/60 fps on every game i've tried just fine

No, your Series X is upscaling to 4K. It's not native lmfao.

[Coal Man]

It's not about raytracing, but about hitting 4k at 60 fps,

Oh then we were arguing completely different things. I have been saying in the PS5 thread a long time now that if we do have a ps5 pro, hopefully it could do at least upscaled 4k60 with some other settings dialed up as well. I remember saying Forbidden West looks super crisp on the resolution mode but only runs at 30fps. I just want it to be at 60 at the same resolution and I'm good.

[Coal Man]

...yet the games haven't really been double the performance or look twice as good...

I'm not sure this is how that works bro.

Also I'm curious how long ago you switched from ps4 to ps5 but I did it this year so the memory is fresh in my mind. Moving from ps4 to this was mind bending

[WiseOldApe]

I mean wasn't the PS4 Pro to PS5 well over double the GPU...and CPU...


...yet the games haven't really been double the performance or look twice as good...

2015 vs 2020 tech - likewise, the switch is due for an upgrade from 2014 tech to 2022... but that doesn't mean that the gaames on the new switch will be better than Zelda or Mario cart 8... still it's about time..

Oh then we were arguing completely different things. I have been saying in the PS5 thread a long time now that if we do have a ps5 pro, hopefully it could do at least upscaled 4k60 with some other settings dialed up as well. I remember saying Forbidden West looks super crisp on the resolution mode but only runs at 30fps. I just want it to be at 60 at the same resolution and I'm good.

If you're after ray-tracing and DLSS, you should really look into building a nVidia-based computer - it shouldn't even run you 'that much' - aa simple ryzen 5 5600 and nvidia 3060Ti build could cost you like 700ish USD.. 250gb M.2 for the OS and a 4TB HDD for games..

My gaming laptop has an i7 and a 3060 and the DLSS 2.0 feature makes games like Metro: Exodus playable with raytracing on (70-80 fps)

[Coal Man]

2015 vs 2020 tech - likewise, the switch is due for an upgrade from 2014 tech to 2022... but that doesn't mean that the gaames on the new switch will be better than Zelda or Mario cart 8... still it's about time..





If you're after ray-tracing and DLSS, you should really look into building a nVidia-based computer - it shouldn't even run you 'that much' - aa simple ryzen 5 5600 and nvidia 3060Ti build could cost you like 700ish USD.. 250gb M.2 for the OS and a 4TB HDD for games..

My gaming laptop has an i7 and a 3060 and the DLSS 2.0 feature makes games like Metro: Exodus playable with raytracing on (70-80 fps)

Don't have an interest in RT as yet because as it stands it has a massive hit on performance. Would rather have it off or on very low and get the performance boost or being able to turn other settings up.

[R3L3NTL3SS]

I'm not sure this is how that works bro.

Also I'm curious how long ago you switched from ps4 to ps5 but I did it this year so the memory is fresh in my mind. Moving from ps4 to this was mind bending

Bruh...take the BEST looking games to go to PS4 PRO and take the BEST looking games to come to PS5 so far...and with a straight face you believe the new games look TWICE as good?

It's better. No doubt. Double? Ain't no fking way in hell lol.

[WiseOldApe]

Bruh...take the BEST looking games to go to PS4 PRO and take the BEST looking games to come to PS5 so far...and with a straight face you believe the new games look TWICE as good?

It's better. No doubt. Double? Ain't no fking way in hell lol.

That chip is pretty powerful though it's like an OCed 6600XT or something, but not sure it's as good twice as good as a ps4 pro.

[R3L3NTL3SS]

That chip is pretty powerful though it's like an OCed 6600XT or something, but not sure it's as good twice as good as a ps4 pro.

I'm just throwing rough figures around brah.

My point is that games are not looking or performing better in a linear way that the hardware is progressing.

I mean we've been seeing some GREAT looking video games for years now. PC GPU's have been making 30-50% performance leaps generation after generation for years now. If the games were looking 30-50% better generation after generation, we wouldn't be able to decipher real life from video games at this point.

Instead we're getting slightly nicer looking games gen after gen and seeing devs just get lazier and lazier with optimization.

[WiseOldApe]

I'm just throwing rough figures around brah.

My point is that games are not looking or performing better in a linear way that the hardware is progressing.

I mean we've been seeing some GREAT looking video games for years now. PC GPU's have been making 30-50% performance leaps generation after generation for years now. If the games were looking 30-50% better generation after generation, we wouldn't be able to decipher real life from video games at this point.

Instead we're getting slightly nicer looking games gen after gen and seeing devs just get lazier and lazier with optimization.

I don't disagree with you at all - GTA 5 is 10 years old and with maxed out settings, it looks as good (if not better) than a lot of the new stuff coming out these days.

I don't know if I agree with you on the 30-50% increase in performance.. I think we'd need need to do a bit of research before drawing such a conclusion.

The latest 4090 might have a 40-50% improvement over a 3080, but it does draw like twice as much power.... so things like efficiency need to be taken into consideration, not just performance.

I'd say it's closer to 15-20% if you compare them properly on how much power they are drawing, etc - please, refer to the images i've attached above (post #34) to see the difference in performance from a 5700XT to a 6700XT.

10% is a huge bump in my eyes, but 20? That's serious results..

5700xt - 7700XT should be a 35-40% increase, which in the real world means that it can hit 60fps at 4k maxed out, or very close to it.

[DASBUNKER]

As of next year bro. Ragnarok was the last ps4 exclusive. I totally understand why some exclusives are cross gen. Development time for games could be 5 years. Much of these games were started being worked on with ps4 in mind.

That's 2 years too long, these cross games games should've been launch-year 1 titles, getting a new console to still play "remastered" last gen games ain't it.

full advantage?

like what?

consoles cant even do 4k60fps unless its an indie game

and this

consoles cannot do 4k60 fps

its a joke

I'm confident by the end of this console gen they will be able to do 4k60fps with maybe a few drawbacks.

Plus those are only benchmarks PCcels use to gloat over, there's a lot more to graphics than those 2 things.

Personally I think ray tracing improves graphics a lot more than 4k and sometimes I don't even notice a big difference between 30-60fps... maybe I got peasant console eyes but whatevs

[R3L3NTL3SS]

I don't disagree with you at all - GTA 5 is 10 years old and with maxed out settings, it looks as good (if not better) than a lot of the new stuff coming out these days.

I don't know if I agree with you on the 30-50% increase in performance.. I think we'd need need to do a bit of research before drawing such a conclusion.

The latest 4090 might have a 40-50% improvement over a 3080, but it does draw like twice as much power.... so things like efficiency need to be taken into consideration, not just performance.

I'd say it's closer to 15-20% if you compare them properly on how much power they are drawing

Well, 30-50% in raw performance is absolutely a 100% fact.

It's not as great if we take power efficiency into it - but that part if it is besides the fact from this particular discussion.

Bottom line is we ARE seeing massive increases gen to gen in raw performance, but we're seeing nowhere near the same thing linearly in terms of what we're getting from it in real world terms.

[conics]

So far the ps5 has been fukkin useless lmao

[WiseOldApe]

That's 2 years too long, these cross games games should've been launch-year 1 titles, getting a new console to still play "remastered" last gen games ain't it.



I'm confident by the end of this console gen they will be able to do 4k60fps with maybe a few drawbacks.

Plus those are only benchmarks PCcels use to gloat over, there's a lot more to graphics than those 2 things.

Personally I think ray tracing improves graphics a lot more than 4k and sometimes I don't even notice a big difference between 30-60fps... maybe I got peasant console eyes but whatevs

Yeah I dunno from 30 to 60 to 90 FPS there's a big difference, beyond that it's not as pronounced.. but from 30 to 60? Sheesh. It's the difference between watching a 28fps 4K movie and a 60 fps 4K video.

Well, 30-50% in raw performance is absolutely a 100% fact.

It's not as great if we take power efficiency into it - but that part if it is besides the fact from this particular discussion.

Bottom line is we ARE seeing massive increases gen to gen in raw performance, but we're seeing nowhere near the same thing linearly in terms of what we're getting from it in real world terms.

Yeah but a playstation can't draw more than 200-250 watts total (CPU AND GPU) - I don't know if they can just OC the fkc out of it and let it draw 400 watts out of the wall, let alone 500-600 watts like a 4090.

Increasing the power consumption without increasing the performance logarithmically isn't actually an improvement, it's just feeding more power into it and calling it a day.

Companies like Sony and Xbox have to meet certain standards when it comes to how much power it consumes - at this point the 3080 and 6700/6800XT are the best in terms of power to performance ratio.

So far the ps5 has been fukkin useless lmao

not useless to those wanting to play the 'exclusives' which are really great games i.e., ratchet and clank, God of War, Horizon forbidden west, etc.