Matchmaking is dead. Brutal gaming blackpill

[Parkerscott]

Just went down the rabbit hole. Never even considered that game studios were using algorithms to turn ranked matches into dopamine casinos. I knew they were building dopamine casinos in the form of loot boxes, battle passes, but this one is a Nagasaki Hiroshima blackpill for me.

Play like a god and lose. Play like chit and win.

Gone are the days you could queue up into evenly matched lobbies. Now you are forced to steamroll noobs or get steamrolled. The algorithm now wants your win loss ratio to be near 50/50. The matching has been gamified to the point you have already won or lost before the game has even begun. The golden era is gone. Just won a game? Heh enjoy the backpack because you just got two dip****s on your team. Lost 7 games in a row? Heres your free win.

[Jason265]

Or win every time if you're in the highest skill bracket.

[R3L3NTL3SS]

Can confirm. Am stuck in Silver rank in Valorant still lmao. Even their "ranked" system is broken from smurfs and people that are hard stuck in ranks they don't belong in.

That's why I've basically given up on multiplayer shooters. You can't even have fun unless you're sweaty as fk, because you're just going to get destroyed by people with no lives that play 24/7. If you're casual you just get chit on.

[Parkerscott]

Or win every time if you're in the highest skill bracket.

Thats the thing, it doesn't work that way. I am in the highest skill bracket. The matching engine compensates by giving you teammates you have to hard carry

[BearyManilowe]

OP trying to subtle brag, but really just admitting that he's awful.

[theory816]

Agreed its a dirty tactic. Games with high replayability uses this tactic to hook their players. BF SKinner stuff.

[Barteh]

Just went down the rabbit hole. Never even considered that game studios were using algorithms to turn ranked matches into dopamine casinos. I knew they were building dopamine casinos in the form of loot boxes, battle passes, but this one is a Nagasaki Hiroshima blackpill for me.

Play like a god and lose. Play like chit and win.

Gone are the days you could queue up into evenly matched lobbies. Now you are forced to steamroll noobs or get steamrolled. The algorithm now wants your win loss ratio to be near 50/50. The matching has been gamified to the point you have already won or lost before the game has even begun. The golden era is gone. Just won a game? Heh enjoy the backpack because you just got two dip****s on your team. Lost 7 games in a row? Heres your free win.

That's the entire idea behind an Elo based matchup system. To match you up against players of your own skill level.

[Parkerscott]

That's the entire idea behind an Elo based matchup system. To match you up against players of your own skill level.

Matching players of own skill level does not mean putting two good players and two bad players on the opposing team and putting two good or three bad players on your team that throw the match. The patents are there. The developers have spoken about the algorithms. The data is also there. I didn't even realize it was a thing until I started to notice a trend. Figured I was just having a string of bad luck but it turns out the algorithm specifically games your matches by pairing you with bad players or good players. Its not 2007 anymore. The lobbies aren't set up where its two evenly matched teams.

OP trying to subtle brag, but really just admitting that he's awful.

I was top 100 in the world in H5 breakout, Max rank in H3 and have been in pro/semi-pro lobbies. Was also tied for 7th in the world in the halo wars 2 beta. Things have changed. I can tell you right now I suck **** at apex, overwatch, CS:GO etc but they also have the same problem

[Parkerscott]

Agreed its a dirty tactic. Games with high replayability uses this tactic to hook their players. BF SKinner stuff.

I am a victim of it. They drip feed you wins so you can climb the ladder and the second you get a win and some dopamine then they smack you back down by giving you a handicap in the form of a dead weight teammate and a stacked lobby. Didn't even realize it was happening until I noticed a pattern and started to find all the data.

[BigElephant]

Yeah skill based matchmaking is bad, at least for shooters. Ideal lobbies have a mix of high, medium, and low skilled players. Nowadays if you're in the top say 25% of players and the game has SBMM then all the matches you get put in are sweat-fests with everyone using meta characters/classes/guns/strats.

[Parkerscott]

Yeah skill based matchmaking is bad, at least for shooters. Ideal lobbies have a mix of high, medium, and low skilled players. Nowadays if you're in the top say 25% of players and the game has SBMM then all the matches you get put in are sweat-fests with everyone using meta characters/classes/guns/strats.

Im fine with the sweat fest. Im not fine with fodder getting thrown into matches they shouldn't be in.

[theory816]

I am a victim of it. They drip feed you wins so you can climb the ladder and the second you get a win and some dopamine then they smack you back down by giving you a handicap in the form of a dead weight teammate and a stacked lobby. Didn't even realize it was happening until I noticed a pattern and started to find all the data.

I see it a little different. For games like Clash of Royale or Starcraft 2, the algorithm is to match you up evenly, when you start winning, they match you with someone alot better to make you lose. Doing this, they actually keep you on their game much longer since you cannot rank up properly. So say you needed 100 points from a win to rank, you'll never get that 100 points since a loss is -100 points.

This is why I think games need a major overhaul. I will be writing a thesis soon about what I think games need to change and how it can be "greener" but also technologically ground breaking at the same time.

On a side note, the entire casino tactic is a serious matter that people don't give enough attention. My entire teens was spent playing cod because of this dopamine reward system. Its not good.

[Parkerscott]

I see it a little different. For games like Clash of Royale of Starcraft 2, the algorithm is to match you up evenly, when you start winning, they match you with someone alot better to make you lose. Doing this, they actually keep you on their game much longer since you cannot rank up properly. So say you needed 100 points from a win to rank, you'll never get that 100 points since a loss is -100 points.

This is why I think games need a major overly. I will be writing a thesis soon about what I think games need to change and how it can be "greener" but also technologically ground breaking at the same time.

On a side note, the entire casino tactic is a serious matter that people don't give enough attention. My entire teens was spent playing cod because of this dopamine reward system. Its not good.

My teens were spent playing h3 and modern warfare 1 before all the casino tactics really started to become implemented. I had a great time playing, but I feel bad for this new generation. Seems like the only good replayable game they got was Fortnite for about 6 seasons. Games are free now but they suck. The gaming community is also full of soft ****s. Saw a man lose his company the other day because he went to a party with Andrew Tate and thats somehow a cancelable offense.

[VTheKing]

It's pretty common for matchmaking systems based in ELO to put together two teams that have roughly the same MMR, but with wide skill disparities within said team. Happens more often in lesser-played game modes or off peak hours, but it also depends on how the system is calibrated - if the system's priority is getting people into matches ASAP rather than ensuring team balance then you're a lot more likely to placed in uneven teams because the game is using whoever they can get their hands on at that very moment.

I don't play much in the way of console games but in my experience playing CSGO, League, Overwatch, etc. that's how it goes. Obviously games are designed to keep you playing but for the most part, they're balancing the need for competitive matches (lest the game becomes unexciting) with the need for queues to move (lest people get bored and leave instead of waiting). There's not really a nefarious plot to keep you stuck with ****ters, but you're the ****ter more often than you'd think.

[theory816]

My teens were spent playing h3 and modern warfare 1 before all the casino tactics really started to become implemented. I had a great time playing, but I feel bad for this new generation.

Many games implement casino tactics. WOW, CS, COD, Fortnite, Apex, Overwatch etc etc.

Consider this, you have to be 21 to play at a casino, but now you have one of the most addictive games(slot machines) available to you in your own home in a nicely packaged game. People of all ages can now git sum if they want sum.

In what world is that ok? And as adults, shouldn't we be doing more to protect our kids and ourselves from bad corporate practices?

[BigElephant]

Im fine with the sweat fest. Im not fine with fodder getting thrown into matches they shouldn't be in.

There should be low skilled players in every lobby, but I agree a noob shouldn't be in a lobby full of chad-tier gamers. I still say the ideal lobby has a few high skill players, a bunch of medium skill players, and a good amount of low skill players. Sweat fest is fine if it happens here or there, but few people have the patience for dealing with that constantly, and I'm not one of them.

[Jason265]

Can confirm. Am stuck in Silver rank in Valorant still lmao. Even their "ranked" system is broken from smurfs and people that are hard stuck in ranks they don't belong in.

That's why I've basically given up on multiplayer shooters. You can't even have fun unless you're sweaty as fk, because you're just going to get destroyed by people with no lives that play 24/7. If you're casual you just get chit on.

Or it makes you get chit on less if you're casual. Casuals aren't getting matched with 24/7 players.

There should be low skilled players in every lobby, but I agree a noob shouldn't be in a lobby full of chad-tier gamers. I still say the ideal lobby has a few high skill players, a bunch of medium skill players, and a good amount of low skill players. Sweat fest is fine if it happens here or there, but few people have the patience for dealing with that constantly, and I'm not one of them.

That's not fun for the low skill players.

[BearyManilowe]

This thread is full of "OH NO I CANT PUBSTOMP ANYMORE" energy.

[freeburn]

This thread is full of "OH NO I CANT PUBSTOMP ANYMORE" energy.

This.


Sometimes I play apex legends with my friend who sucks and plays like once a month. He plays on Xbox. When he's in my lobbies he gets absolutely crapped on, and sometimes I can tell when I'm playing against old console boobs stuck in 60fps because I'll have done an entire circle around them while they try to spin and catch up.


Sbmm is a necessary monster for people who aren't good at the games

[AD117]

It's pretty common for matchmaking systems based in ELO to put together two teams that have roughly the same MMR, but with wide skill disparities within said team. Happens more often in lesser-played game modes or off peak hours, but it also depends on how the system is calibrated - if the system's priority is getting people into matches ASAP rather than ensuring team balance then you're a lot more likely to placed in uneven teams because the game is using whoever they can get their hands on at that very moment.

I don't play much in the way of console games but in my experience playing CSGO, League, Overwatch, etc. that's how it goes. Obviously games are designed to keep you playing but for the most part, they're balancing the need for competitive matches (lest the game becomes unexciting) with the need for queues to move (lest people get bored and leave instead of waiting). There's not really a nefarious plot to keep you stuck with ****ters, but you're the ****ter more often than you'd think.

This. OP is just describing ELO. I couldn't imagine playing siege without proper match making and just constantly steam rolling poor noobs.

I do agree it shouldn't be a thing in something casual like COD though. Not every game needs to be a sweaty competitive hell.

[AD117]

The last two posts are ignorant selfish and stupid.

Server browsers and community owned servers solved all these problems and then some.

Pros and noobs alike had places to go that they felt they belonged in.

SBMM's only place is to link fully equal teammates top to bottom of the game's roster. Not create some stupid algorithm where nobody is happy, not top nor bottom player

The previous two posts wreak of incel leftie hogwash spewing entitled holier than thou toxicity

I am holier than thou tho

fking LOL @ wanting competition = toxic. Says the beta whos crying because he cant handle someone who can shoot and aim back

Talk to your doctor about test boosters srs. sub 300 ng/dL detected just fkn lol

[BearyManilowe]

The last two posts are ignorant selfish and stupid.

Server browsers and community owned servers solved all these problems and then some.

Pros and noobs alike had places to go that they felt they belonged in.

SBMM's only place is to link fully equal teammates top to bottom of the game's roster. Not create some stupid algorithm where nobody is happy, not top nor bottom player

The previous two posts wreak of incel leftie hogwash spewing entitled holier than thou toxicity

Server Browsers >>>>>>

However, OP was referring to matchmaking a la Halo 3, so that's an apples to oranges comparisons. From a strictly competition standpoint, SBMM has technically improved the overall matchmaking. It irritates people though because it's harder to go on those 30 game winning streaks now.

[BigElephant]

Or it makes you get chit on less if you're casual. Casuals aren't getting matched with 24/7 players.



That's not fun for the low skill players.

That's how they get better. I started out playing FPS seriously with the original 2009 MW2. I was garbage and got stomped more often than not but I slowly got better and it made it that much more satisfying when my group started going on winning streaks.

[AD117]

Pretending as if everyone shouldn't play at their own level is the epitome of entitled. Meaning you, not me. You don't see professional soccer players playing against local friendlies.

Sbmm has turned into a total unbalanced mess.

I don't care about losing half my games. I care if every game feels sweaty with no options otherwise.

Constant sweaty is what causes all the toxicity too. What OP is describing isn't even sbmm, the companies call it that but as he described the players aren't evenly balanced and its purposeful.

Perhaps you should get your test levels checked if you feel the need to mock other people about their feelings about modern day sbmm and its effect of constant sweatiness and toxicity. A large amount of people I used to play with, men and women alike, are sick of the constant toxicity that's caused by forced sbmm and have stopped competitive multiplayer games altogether. Where that wasn't the case back during server browsers and community owned servers. It's not like they can't include true ranked gaming sbmm separately. They just don't want to.

It's a game and supposed to be fun which offends your sensibilities enough to mock others. Classy.

Lol @ crying about toxicity and getting mocked when you called people incels over their preference for ELO. Strong self awareness you retard

"Pretending as if everyone shouldn't play at their own level is the epitome of entitled. Meaning you, not me. You don't see professional soccer players playing against local friendlies."

Do you not see how your first line is literally exactly what I'm arguing in favor of? Are you ****ing dense? Read my posts again. ELO is there to keep people fighting against their level you. Siege does it perfect and sure af doesn't just match you up with random noobs you steam roll. It matches you with people who reached your same ranking.

You don't even want fair lobbies like you claim. You're crying about sweaty lobbies. Even lobbies will always be sweaty. Must be rough being both low test and low IQ

[Parkerscott]

This. OP is just describing ELO. I couldn't imagine playing siege without proper match making and just constantly steam rolling poor noobs.

I do agree it shouldn't be a thing in something casual like COD though. Not every game needs to be a sweaty competitive hell.

My issue is not that I cant steamroll noobs, but the fact the ranked competitive lobbies im in has purposely put 2 noobs on both 4 man teams. I don't want to steamroll noobs, and I dont want to carry noobs either. I want 3 people on my team playing against 4 people on the other team of similar skill. If im playing a social lobby im fine with a mix.

[Jason265]

The last two posts are ignorant selfish and stupid.

Server browsers and community owned servers solved all these problems and then some.

Pros and noobs alike had places to go that they felt they belonged in.

SBMM's only place is to link fully equal teammates top to bottom of the game's roster. Not create some stupid algorithm where nobody is happy, not top nor bottom player

The previous two posts wreak of incel leftie hogwash spewing entitled holier than thou toxicity

I am holier than thou tho

fking LOL @ wanting competition = toxic. Says the beta whos crying because he cant handle someone who can shoot and aim back

Talk to your doctor about test boosters srs. sub 300 ng/dL detected just fkn lol

Lol. Repped you both.

[LtGoose]

Im fine with the sweat fest. Im not fine with fodder getting thrown into matches they shouldn't be in.

Foddercel detected

It's not enough for players to succeed, others have to fail too.

[leafs43]

CS:GO is still good.

The battle royale games make this almost impossible to do because of too many players, therefore variables, to account for

[sdmk]

it's basic behavioral psychology
intermittently receiving a strong reward releases more dopamine and has the pleb stay around longer than consistently receiving weak-mediocre rewards

for example: pleb 1 and pleb 2 play five matches:
pleb 1's scores: 8-7, 6-9, 4-6, 8-5, 7-7
pleb 2's scores: 7-6, 2-8, 10-5, 4-11, 15-0

for a purely competitive environment the 1st score line would be better, but pleb 2 is more likely to stick around and buy skins/season passes if he is occasionally matched against mouthbreathers and can call in AC-130s and tactical nukes

[Guyfawkes1010]

CS:GO is still good.

The battle royale games make this almost impossible to do because of too many players, therefore variables, to account for

Maybe that was true at first, but deff not now. Its really not that diff to match make 10 players vs 100 when you have everyone ranked.