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  1. #31
    Registered User Darkseidd21's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    I don't know - if you're repping 135lb x 12 at 142lb bodyweight in your first 9 months of lifting, after starting at just 118lb I'd say your genetics aren't too bad. Certainly better than mine, anyway. How much fat gain have you seen so far - bulking 24lb in 9 months is pretty fast. How old are you?
    fat gain almost none still got some stomach veins when I flex,I started at 24 yrs old now I'm 25 I can also incline 135x8 but that's because I have very strong shoulders I'm repping 60's on my own with ROM almost touching shoulders(guys in my gym even commented that that's not possible) and my shoulders do stand out a like a lot from all body parts especially the chest which is weird for me.
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  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by Darkseidd21 View Post
    fat gain almost none still got some stomach veins when I flex,I started at 24 yrs old now I'm 25 I can also incline 135x8 but that's because I have very strong shoulders I'm repping 60's on my own with ROM almost touching shoulders(guys in my gym even commented that that's not possible) and my shoulders do stand out a like a lot from all body parts especially the chest which is weird for me.
    Damn - I'm envious of that! Now I gain 2lb per month when lean bulking and I'm lucky if only half of that is fat. I'm older (38) and have been lifting longer, though.
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  3. #33
    Registered User Darkseidd21's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    Damn - I'm envious of that! Now I gain 2lb per month when lean bulking and I'm lucky if only half of that is fat. I'm older (38) and have been lifting longer, though.
    Maybe that's because I was very skinny like anorexia skinny,I read one book saying that testosterone pretty much stays the same from 21 to late 50's keep in mind that is with healthy lifestyle, and my grandfather built a farm at 58 and he was doing the work all by himself gettin up before the sun rise and all those stuff and he was so lean at his 60's that it was even weird,so age doesnt really affect that much I think as long as u keep healthy lifestyle.U got the perfect height so ur genes aren't bad at all just bulk man we gonna make it one day for sure, I've learned a lot from some guys on this forum for free and I appreciate it.
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  4. #34
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Darkseidd21 View Post
    Maybe that's because I was very skinny like anorexia skinny,I read one book saying that testosterone pretty much stays the same from 21 to late 50's keep in mind that is with healthy lifestyle, and my grandfather built a farm at 58 and he was doing the work all by himself gettin up before the sun rise and all those stuff and he was so lean at his 60's that it was even weird,so age doesnt really affect that much I think as long as u keep healthy lifestyle.U got the perfect height so ur genes aren't bad at all just bulk man we gonna make it one day for sure, I've learned a lot from some guys on this forum for free and I appreciate it.
    My Dad built the house he and my mum live in when he was in his mid 60s - he's still lean and reasonably strong (for his age) today at 73. I'll be cutting down from 180lb to around 170lb for the next few weeks because I'm getting a bit fluffy for my liking, upper abs definition is almost gone.
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    My Dad built the house he and my mum live in when he was in his mid 60s - he's still lean and reasonably strong (for his age) today at 73. I'll be cutting down from 180lb to around 170lb for the next few weeks because I'm getting a bit fluffy for my liking, upper abs definition is almost gone.
    so that's a proof that today's lifestyle is the biggest reason our t levels are lower than any other generations,carbs retain water so maybe lower the carbs and increase the fat or protein and bulk that way or maybe the sodium makes u retain water dunno try what works for u but continue to bulk, u got great height.
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  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by Darkseidd21 View Post
    so that's a proof that today's lifestyle is the biggest reason our t levels are lower than any other generations,carbs retain water so maybe lower the carbs and increase the fat or protein and bulk that way or maybe the sodium makes u retain water dunno try what works for u but continue to bulk, u got great height.
    I've never had my t checked - never seen a need to as I don't have any symptoms of low t . At the height of my moat recent bulk I was eating 500g carbs, 200g protein and 100g fat to gain 0.5lb per week (on average). I've gone higher fat, lower carb before and got similar results. I don't think I'm retaining water, just getting fat! Sounds like you've been getting your newbie gains which is why they've been so lean - I miss those days!
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  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    I've never had my t checked - never seen a need to as I don't have any symptoms of low t . At the height of my moat recent bulk I was eating 500g carbs, 200g protein and 100g fat to gain 0.5lb per week (on average). I've gone higher fat, lower carb before and got similar results. I don't think I'm retaining water, just getting fat! Sounds like you've been getting your newbie gains which is why they've been so lean - I miss those days!
    yeah forgot about those... Also consider I'm 142 ur 180 which is a huge difference but ur like 1 inch taller than me so if I'm still this lean at 180 after my bulk then I'll say I have good genes but till then only eating sleeping and training hard
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  8. #38
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    Originally Posted by weiss1967 View Post
    I am bestest bench expert. Dead srs. It is not easy, but program goes like this. Drop the weight you currently struggle with, all the way down to 50% of it. Start with bar and 10# plates if you need to. Complete 5 sets of 20 reps. Yes, 20. Take longer rests if have to ( you will have to). Do this 3 times a week. Every chest workout make sure to load up upper chest (incline, cables, dbs etc). Do not rush to add weight next week or a week after. When ready, add a solid 25# plates. Your next weight would be no other plates but 45# on each side. I want to stress these critical points : add weight only as you are good enough for 5 sets of 20 reps. You can dwell at same weight if have to, but do not rush. Another important point is adding a solid increase, we do no fiddlefok with 5 pounders or alike. 45's , next would 45 + 25, then 45 + 35's. By next summer you will do 225 for 20 reps.

    No bench expert here, just curious... why 20 reps and why no 5 pounders?


    He should do 300 reps each week?

    Day 1:
    20-20-20-20-20
    Day 2:
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    Day 3:
    20-20-20-20-20
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  9. #39
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    No bench expert here, just curious... why 20 reps and why no 5 pounders?


    He should do 300 reps each week?

    Day 1:
    20-20-20-20-20
    Day 2:
    20-20-20-20-20
    Day 3:
    20-20-20-20-20
    I came up with 20 for reasons unrelated to growth, but it worked for growth better than anything else. Later there was some research about growth hormone, and myostatin and whatnot, all pointing to higher reps, so I was on a right track intuitively. The main thing here is to be observant and keep track or progress, and have no opinion.

    Why no 5-pounders is an awesome question. a few reasons. First reason is that adding 10 pounds (5+5) adds only 5% to 185-pound bar. 5% is fokk all. You can change bar trajectory and get same increase in resistance, or roll the bar out of balance a little, or go a touch slower. Background noise is what 5-pounders are. Second reason, is progression, which everybody keeps repeating like some magic fkn mantra. Progression should come naturally, and it comes in clusters. You cannot and should not drag progression by its hair, screaming and kicking. Those who add 5-pounders are same guys who continually trying to do more next week, and that's what ruin the growth.

    300 reps, what is wrong with it? My shoulder workout is 300 reps, single workout, not the whole week. Sometimes 600 reps. Can't do that with legs though, too large muscle, you will be running into severe hypoxia. But bi's or tri's, or shoulders are fine. I have heard questions from new lifters, why I don't grow. When asked, it turns out he works out muscle group once per week. 3 sets of 5 reps. Think about it, those are 15 reps for the whole week. Now think some more, somewhere between 1200 reps and 15 reps is a happy medium. Do the math.
    Last edited by weiss1967; 10-12-2022 at 09:25 PM. Reason: math issue, it was 15, not 45
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    Registered User Darkseidd21's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by weiss1967 View Post
    I came up with 20 for reasons unrelated to growth, but it worked for growth better than anything else. Later there was some research about growth hormone, and myostatin and whatnot, all pointing to higher reps, so I was on a right track intuitively. The main thing here is to be observant and keep track or progress, and have no opinion.

    Why no 5-pounders is an awesome question. a few reasons. First reason is that adding 10 pounds (5+5) adds only 5% to 185-pound bar. 5% is fokk all. You can change bar trajectory and get same increase in resistance, or roll the bar out of balance a little, or go a touch slower. Background noise is what 5-pounders are. Second reason, is progression, which everybody keeps repeating like some magic fkn mantra. Progression should come naturally, and it comes in clusters. You cannot and should not drag progression by its hair, screaming and kicking. Those who add 5-pounders are same guys who continually trying to do more next week, and that's what ruin the growth.

    300 reps, what is wrong with it? My shoulder workout is 300 reps, single workout, not the whole week. Sometimes 600 reps. Can't do that with legs though, too large muscle, you will be running into severe hypoxia. But bi's or tri's, or shoulders are fine. I have heard questions from new lifters, why I don't grow. When asked, it turns out he works out muscle group once per week. 3 sets of 5 reps. Think about it, those are 45 reps for the whole week. Now think some more, somewhere between 1200 reps and 45 reps is a happy medium. Do the math.
    did 5x20 with 25's now I'm on the 45's got 12 first set then 9,9,8,8 so I should aim for more reps every workout right since I'm not adding weight


    Oh and the DOMS are just on another level I. Only do bench and incline dumbell press and every part of my chess is sore literally every,on incline I grab the 55s or 60's after flat and go deep as I can and then explode up for 3 sets 10 reps
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  11. #41
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    Originally Posted by Darkseidd21 View Post
    did 5x20 with 25's now I'm on the 45's got 12 first set then 9,9,8,8 so I should aim for more reps every workout right since I'm not adding weight


    Oh and the DOMS are just on another level I. Only do bench and incline dumbell press and every part of my chess is sore literally every,on incline I grab the 55s or 60's after flat and go deep as I can and then explode up for 3 sets 10 reps
    jumping from 25's to 45 is a bit much. I guess the concept is not easy to get across in a few sentences on this forum. Adding 5-pounders to 45's is a background noise, yes. But adding those same 5-pounders to 25's is not, it adds over 10% to overall weight of the bar.

    Look at the stack of weight on any machine. Plates are smaller at the top, and get wider at some point. Loading bar is same. That is one thing.

    The second important point is staying close to 20-rep range. Jumping from 25's to 45's significantly reduced your rep range. Go back and try 25+5's or maybe go with 35's. Or dwell at 25's another week if you have to. Higher rep range is the key to the whole concept. Smearing failing reps over 5 reps or more, enduring more pain over longer time under tension, is what makes it work.

    The other important point is time. You did not put time in. Aim for June next summer. This gives you over a month dwelling at each bigger plate. Sometimes you will need more. And you will need more, at your current BW. We are talking about more than doubling the size of your current chest muscle, basically you will be changing weight class entirely by the time you get there. It will be different you, if it makes concept more clear.

    Further to this. Aim for winning a set. Right now you seem to go by "failure". Think about it. I know, this is so far imbedded into our sport that will take a lot of thinking to get over. Going to failure often teach us to fail. We adapt to "failure". Become more "efficient" at failure. We are failing quicker and with less pain. Crazy, isn't it?

    Next. This concept is against about everything we keep hearing about how to train. Which, subtly, works against us.

    There is also significantly more pain, when you are winning a set, because you will be failing at 15, but squeezing in another two, and another one, take a breath and add another etc. All the while staying in that magic myo reps range. This makes many people shy away from it, finding excuses, like 'this isn't my thing", or "we are all different" are most often I hear.

    And yet more to this. I keep saying, that we need to step on our own ego and not to shy away from looking like a pussy with pink dumbbells. Yes, get comfortable with small bar, step hard on your ego. Dwell at each weight before going heavier.
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    Originally Posted by weiss1967 View Post
    jumping from 25's to 45 is a bit much. I guess the concept is not easy to get across in a few sentences on this forum. Adding 5-pounders to 45's is a background noise, yes. But adding those same 5-pounders to 25's is not, it adds over 10% to overall weight of the bar.

    Look at the stack of weight on any machine. Plates are smaller at the top, and get wider at some point. Loading bar is same. That is one thing.

    The second important point is staying close to 20-rep range. Jumping from 25's to 45's significantly reduced your rep range. Go back and try 25+5's or maybe go with 35's. Or dwell at 25's another week if you have to. Higher rep range is the key to the whole concept. Smearing failing reps over 5 reps or more, enduring more pain over longer time under tension, is what makes it work.

    The other important point is time. You did not put time in. Aim for June next summer. This gives you over a month dwelling at each bigger plate. Sometimes you will need more. And you will need more, at your current BW. We are talking about more than doubling the size of your current chest muscle, basically you will be changing weight class entirely by the time you get there. It will be different you, if it makes concept more clear.

    Further to this. Aim for winning a set. Right now you seem to go by "failure". Think about it. I know, this is so far imbedded into our sport that will take a lot of thinking to get over. Going to failure often teach us to fail. We adapt to "failure". Become more "efficient" at failure. We are failing quicker and with less pain. Crazy, isn't it?

    Next. This concept is against about everything we keep hearing about how to train. Which, subtly, works against us.

    There is also significantly more pain, when you are winning a set, because you will be failing at 15, but squeezing in another two, and another one, take a breath and add another etc. All the while staying in that magic myo reps range. This makes many people shy away from it, finding excuses, like 'this isn't my thing", or "we are all different" are most often I hear.

    And yet more to this. I keep saying, that we need to step on our own ego and not to shy away from looking like a pussy with pink dumbbells. Yes, get comfortable with small bar, step hard on your ego. Dwell at each weight before going heavier.
    Did 17 reps with the 35's for 3 sets and my chest and triceps were fried.Also why I get better pump in the triceps than in the chest and when I approach let's say the 15th or 16th rep I feel my triceps struggle.I didn't have 2 sets in me cause my pecs were shaking like crazy and I was little worried than I'll lose balance and break some teeth.So overall I located the laggin point the triceps,and my chest improve a lot since I started high reps and very slow and deep reps on the incline.
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    I might try this sets of 20 program. My bench is pretty weak but I enjoy the lift. I've never bothered with more than 12 reps in a set. Attempted 135x20 yesterday for fun, just one set before I moved onto heavier weight for less reps. Got 18 and left a couple reps in the tank because I wasn't ready to commit. Definitely felt it in my chest towards the end, which is what I'm looking for. I think I'm going to start doing a burnout set of 20 at the end for a while. Once I can get 135x20 after my heavy sets, I'll try 135x20x5 and go from there. Might need to drop down a few lbs to get them all, but it would be fun to try. What I'm doing now isn't yielding many gains so why not?
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    Originally Posted by radrd View Post
    Might need to drop down a few lbs to get them all, but it would be fun to try. What I'm doing now isn't yielding many gains so why not?
    From what I understand weiss says you must grind it and use myo reps.


    "you will be failing at 15, but squeezing in another two, and another one, take a breath and add another etc. All the while staying in that magic myo reps range."
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    From what I understand weiss says you must grind it and use myo reps.


    "you will be failing at 15, but squeezing in another two, and another one, take a breath and add another etc. All the while staying in that magic myo reps range."
    Yes, I was referring to finding my baseline starting point where I can reasonably get 5x20x5. If I attempt it at 185, for example, it won't matter how good my breathing is because I can't come close to doing one set of 20 today, much less breath my way through 5 sets.
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    From what I understand weiss says you must grind it and use myo reps.


    "you will be failing at 15, but squeezing in another two, and another one, take a breath and add another etc. All the while staying in that magic myo reps range."
    Do you or anyone else want to aware me on what "myo reps" are? I hear this term from time to time but I don't think I've ever seen it explained.
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    Do you or anyone else want to aware me on what "myo reps" are? I hear this term from time to time but I don't think I've ever seen it explained.
    You do your normal set, you put down the weight, short rest (10 breaths) you continue the exercise, another short rest, do it again.
    Not that good for deadlifts or squats, but can work very well on many exercises, especially isolation, but not only.

    https://borge***erli.com/myo-reps-in-english/

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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    You do your normal set, you put down the weight, short rest (10 breaths) you continue the exercise, another short rest, do it again.
    Not that good for deadlifts or squats, but can work very well on many exercises, especially isolation, but not only.

    https://borge***erli.com/myo-reps-in-english/

    I understand now. Thank you my dude.
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    I guess I am using "myo reps" term rather loosely. The way I train, there are no 30-seconds pause, usually two-three breaths, maybe 10 seconds, just enough to win the set. Doesn't mean I am doing it right.
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    Originally Posted by weiss1967 View Post
    I guess I am using "myo reps" term rather loosely. The way I train, there are no 30-seconds pause, usually two-three breaths, maybe 10 seconds, just enough to win the set. Doesn't mean I am doing it right.
    So you do let's say 17 reps, you rack the weight, take 2-3 breaths, unrack it, do 3 more reps and call it a set?
    I like to learn from the mistakes of the people who take my advice.
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    Originally Posted by Darkseidd21 View Post
    So I got my bench to 185 lbs or 135x12 reps but I've been stuck the past 3 weeks,so should I run some bench program or continue to add weight when I hit 5 reps on my first set cause that's what I've been doing and suddenly I'm stuck,dumbbell press went up from 50s to 60's for 6-7 reps squats and deadlifts going up also but the stupid bench is laggin.So any bench experts DM me some program to get to 275.dead srs
    Just increase the weight and lower the reps to 5 and do 5 sets
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