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  1. #1
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    This guy was the peak of Christianity

    It's all been downhill since


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    But who was





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    But who was

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    Originally Posted by bongowongo View Post
    But who was





    Yes jesus is the main figurehead but is he the peak? I don't think so.

    The Apostles/Disciples were the start of Christianity. They were the ones who spread it from Rome throughout the rest of Europe.

    Who's the figure head of the Catholic church and start of the church? Peter is.

    If you read the New Testament, Paul is the one that really spread Christianity throughout. Paul was originally a persecuter of Chistians but then went preaching it from Rome throughout Europe.
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    Originally Posted by iloveus View Post
    Yes jesus is the main figurehead but is he the peak? I don't think so.

    The Apostles/Disciples were the start of Christianity. They were the ones who spread it from Rome throughout the rest of Europe.

    Who's the figure head of the Catholic church and start of the church? Peter is.

    If you read the New Testament, Paul is the one that really spread Christianity throughout. Paul was originally a persecuter of Chistians but then went preaching it from Rome throughout Europe.
    So Jesus says to follow the old law and Paul has a vision that we don't need to follow the laws. Which one is it? Doesn't it seem like someome who wanted an easy route?

    Brb live during Moses time and have to follow 613 laws...brb live in Jesus time and you know what...I died for your sins.

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    Originally Posted by miscerForLulz View Post
    So Jesus says to follow the old law and Paul has a vision that we don't need to follow the laws.
    OT is a covenant between God and the Israelites. Jesus introduces a new covenant between God and everyone.
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    Originally Posted by sg1976 View Post
    But who was

    Das it mane

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    Jesus Chatline was decent

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    Originally Posted by CoolKnees View Post
    OT is a covenant between God and the Israelites. Jesus introduces a new covenant between God and everyone.
    Jesus came for only a sect of the Israelites firstly
    Matthew 15:22 onwards

    Secondly, N.T. doesn't agree with you because that's exactly what Jesus said to not abolish the old laws
    Matthew 5:18-20
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    Registered User CoolKnees's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by miscerForLulz View Post
    Jesus came for only a sect of the Israelites firstly
    Matthew 15:22 onwards

    Secondly, N.T. doesn't agree with you because that's exactly what Jesus said to not abolish the old laws
    Matthew 5:18-20
    Jesus is the fulfillment of the OT Covenant. He completes it, and invites you to join in a new covenant. Basic Christianity 101.
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  11. #11
    I mean yeah... niospecv's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sg1976 View Post
    But who was

    BRB banging your wife because God told me to.
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    Originally Posted by CoolKnees View Post
    Jesus is the fulfillment of the OT Covenant. He completes it, and invites you to join in a new covenant. Basic Christianity 101.
    I see you've learned well from Paul. Brb book says something and you just ignore the verses that rebukes your claim.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by miscerForLulz View Post
    So Jesus says to follow the old law and Paul has a vision that we don't need to follow the laws. Which one is it? Doesn't it seem like someome who wanted an easy route?

    Brb live during Moses time and have to follow 613 laws...brb live in Jesus time and you know what...I died for your sins.

    Brilliant if you ask me srs
    Jesus never just said 'follow the old law'. He said 'He came to FULFILL the law'.

    That implies the law wasn't fulfilled, he shewed what truly following the law means.

    4Jesus answered, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’a 5and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’b? 6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

    7“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses order a man to give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?c”

    8Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because of your hardness of heart; but it was not this way from the beginning. 9Now I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman, commits adultery.d”

    10His disciples said to Him, “If this is the case between a man and his wife, it is better not to marry.”

    11“Not everyone can accept this word,” He replied, “but only those to whom it has been given. 12For there are eunuchs who were born that way; others were made that way by men; and still others live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
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    Wavy miscerForLulz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ninetynine8 View Post
    Jesus never just said 'follow the old law'. He said 'He came to FULFILL the law'.

    That implies the law wasn't fulfilled, he shewed what truly following the law means.

    4Jesus answered, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’a 5and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’b? 6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

    7“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses order a man to give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?c”

    8Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because of your hardness of heart; but it was not this way from the beginning. 9Now I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman, commits adultery.d”

    10His disciples said to Him, “If this is the case between a man and his wife, it is better not to marry.”

    11“Not everyone can accept this word,” He replied, “but only those to whom it has been given. 12For there are eunuchs who were born that way; others were made that way by men; and still others live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
    Continuing reading the verse...don't stop there

    Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    But the question is Jesus didn't believe the Pharisees were righteous...their issue was they had the works only but didnt have the belief. So he's saying you need both the works and the faith. So you need to exceed them in this.

    That's why James said what? Faith without work is dead. You need both.
    Last edited by miscerForLulz; 09-29-2022 at 08:47 PM.
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    Originally Posted by bongowongo View Post
    But who was




    Caesar Borgia?
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    Originally Posted by miscerForLulz View Post
    Continuing reading the verse...don't stop there

    Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    But the question is Jesus didn't believe the Pharisees were righteous...their issue was they had the works only but didnt have the belief. So he's saying you need both the works and the faith. So you need to exceed them in this.

    That's why James said what? Faith without work is dead. You need both.
    I paraphrased that verse already. Like that verse says he came to fulfil the law.

    Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


    That verse from James is saying if you HAVE faith you will produce works. Anyone can say they have 'faith' but they're lying if they don't produce good fruit.

    AKA 'dead faith'. How is that not easy to understand? Faith that is dead was never actual faith to begin with. You're twisting it by saying you can only achieve faith by doing works, when in reality it is the other way around.
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    Originally Posted by ninetynine8 View Post
    I paraphrased that verse already. Like that verse says he came to fulfil the law.

    Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


    That verse from James is saying if you HAVE faith you will produce works. Anyone can say they have 'faith' but they're lying if they don't produce good fruit.

    AKA 'dead faith'. How is that not easy to understand? Faith that is dead was never actual faith to begin with. You're twisting it by saying you can only achieve faith by doing works, when in reality it is the other way around.
    So what's your understanding on this? A Pharisee asked Jesus what is the greatest commandment. What he replies is not negating any of the laws. Rather what's he's illustrating is the key principal - to love God with all your heart. This is the core of what the Prophets of the O.T. preached. It doesn't mean only follow these 2 laws because that's what the other prophets only did.

    If you are saying it does, then you have an issue beause the other verse clearly is giving the context that you will be the least in the kingdom of God if you even leave a jot of the O.T. laws. Secondly, we know Moses did not have 2 laws.

    And we're not disagreeing on your last point. Rather, I'm simply saying the scripture says you need both and not just one (and that's my claim about having belief only yet abolishing the works by not abiding by the O.T. laws).
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    The correct answer here would be Jesus.
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    Originally Posted by miscerForLulz View Post
    So what's your understanding on this? A Pharisee asked Jesus what is the greatest commandment. What he replies is not negating any of the laws. Rather what's he's illustrating is the key principal - to love God with all your heart. This is the core of what the Prophets of the O.T. preached. It doesn't mean only follow these 2 laws because that's what the other prophets only did.

    If you are saying it does, then you have an issue beause the other verse clearly is giving the context that you will be the least in the kingdom of God if you even leave a jot of the O.T. laws. Secondly, we know Moses did not have 2 laws.

    And we're not disagreeing on your last point. Rather, I'm simply saying the scripture says you need both and not just one (and that's my claim about having belief only yet abolishing the works by not abiding by the O.T. laws).
    Except what I'm saying is that he is saying that, in the sense that by following these two laws you follow all of them and if you break them you break all of them.

    When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will place the sheep on His right and the goats on His left.

    34Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, 36I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’

    37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’

    40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’

    41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

    44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’

    45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’

    46And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”



    Notice how judgment is based upon the second commandment? And we can only follow the second commandment by following the first one.
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    Originally Posted by bongowongo View Post
    But who was





    lmao who is that?
    some Italian hipster?
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    Originally Posted by ninetynine8 View Post
    Except what I'm saying is that he is saying that, in the sense that by following these two laws you follow all of them and if you break them you break all of them. That's why on the sermon of the mount the entire message was that those who didn't follow the second commandment (not loving others as yourself) would be cast out into eternal darkness, those that did follow it would see eternal life.
    Paul introduced this - now the real question...who gave him that authority?

    Secondly, he might be saying it "here" but what about "there"?

    Again, that is wrong context. That you do the actions not because you want to enter heaven but rather you do it for those around you and for the sake of God. It's your intention behind it. It's a parable. If I'm Hindu and do good by helping others, do I enter heaven?
    Last edited by miscerForLulz; 09-29-2022 at 10:11 PM.
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    Originally Posted by miscerForLulz View Post
    Paul introduced this - now the real question...who gave him that authority?

    Secondly, he might be saying it "here" but what about "there"?
    He didn't introduce it. He elaborates on the words of Jesus.

    Jesus said if you love him you will keep his commandments, right? Therefore if you break them you don't love him, and if you don't love God you're damned as it's the first great commandment, with the second being like unto it. All of this using the words of Jesus, not Paul.


    Paul doesn't contradict, rather he elaborates in detail which can lead to confusion as Peter said.



    What is your response to Jesus judging being based upon the second commandment? Eternal life or death is based upon the two great commandments.


    Your doctrine doesn't make any sense. For one it considers Jesus a sinner for working on the sabbath...
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    There's some dude in India named Meher Baba who said he was Jesus and he had a cult-like following. One of my exes followed him. Just lol.
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    Originally Posted by ninetynine8 View Post
    He didn't introduce it. He elaborates on the words of Jesus.

    Jesus said if you love him you will keep his commandments, right? Therefore if you break them you don't love him, and if you don't love God you're damned as it's the first great commandment, with the second being like unto it. All of this using the words of Jesus, not Paul.


    Paul doesn't contradict, rather he elaborates in detail which can lead to confusion as Peter said.



    What is your response to Jesus judging being based upon the second commandment? Eternal life or death is based upon the two great commandments.


    Your doctrine doesn't make any sense. For one it considers Jesus a sinner for working on the sabbath...
    So like I said, is a good Hindu going to heaven? Is the criteria just that?

    I'm interested in theology (Abrahamic religions) and not a Christian but I do read because I'm interested in it from only a theological perspective. Exchanging viewpoints and trying to discuss that's all (and as long as we're respectful...it's not a debate).

    Second coming? Well I know he's going to tell the supposed followers of his to get away from him...
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    Originally Posted by milfmanmilk View Post
    It's all been downhill since


    20 years from now, let alone 2000 years from now no one will remember this phàggot.
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    Originally Posted by miscerForLulz View Post
    So like I said, is a good Hindu going to heaven? Is the criteria just that?

    I'm interested in theology (Abrahamic religions) and not a Christian but I do read because I'm interested in it from only a theological perspective. Exchanging viewpoints and trying to discuss that's all (and as long as we're respectful...it's not a debate).
    I don't disagree with some of what you said, it's about the intent since people can have ulterior motives. But yes, it is the criteria. They are the two greatest commandments and all the others hang upon them. These don't hang upon them, they hang upon these. The 'parable' is simply Jesus reiterating what it looks like to follow the second commandment. Of course if you have ulterior motives you weren't following it to begin with.

    On Hindus going to heaven I would say no, because you can't truly follow the second commandment without following the first, and the first is to love God.



    I don't think any theology makes total sense to be fair. They all have 'compromises' to achieve some sense of unity.
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    Originally Posted by ninetynine8 View Post
    I don't disagree with some of what you said, it's about the intent since people can have ulterior motives. But yes, it is the criteria. They are the two greatest commandments and all the others hang upon them. These don't hang upon them, they hang upon these. The 'parable' is simply Jesus reiterating what it looks like to follow the second commandment. Of course if you have ulterior motives you weren't following it to begin with.

    On Hindus going to heaven I would say no, because you can't truly follow the second commandment without following the first, and the first is to love God.



    I don't think any theology makes total sense to be fair. They all have 'compromises' to achieve some sense of unity.
    1 Corinthians 14:33
    For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

    If youre a believer and still not convinced on it, then why follow it? (Question for yourself)

    So how did Abraham love God? Did he profess to the doctrine? Isn't that also a criteria?
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