My take on PPLs

[BeginnerGainz]

Since for some reason a lot of people, especially beginners, think (falsely) that more time in the gym = more gains, they might as well do it right vs doing the pump fest that always seems to make up the bulk of “rate my PPL” threads we see here.Without further to do, here is how a PPL could be done right.

Starting with the obvious, I’d change the order to pull-push-legs. Why will be made very apparent.

Secondly, there will be a rest day every 3 workouts. No doing it 6 days straight. Again, being in the gym more doesn’t equal more and/or faster progress.

Finally, the layout:

Pull 1
-Deadlift off the floor (trap bar preferred) 1x4-6
-Upper back movement 2x8-12
-Lat movement 2x6-10
-Bicep movement 3x10-15

Push 1
-Chest movement 3x6-8
-Shoulder movement (press or lateral raise) 3x8-12
-Tricep movement 3x10-15

Legs 1
-Calf movement 2x8-10
-Leg curl variation 3x6-10
-Quad movement 3x8-12

Rest day

Pull 2
-Harder deadlift/hinge variation (SLDL, RDL, good morning) 2x6-10
-A different upper back movement 2x8-12
-A different lat movement 2x8-12
-A different bicep movement 3x8-12

Push 2
-A different chest movement 3x8-12
-A different shoulder movement 3x10-15
-A different tricep movement 3x12-15

Legs 2
-A different calf movement 3x8-12
-A different leg curl variation 3x6-10
-A different quad movement 3x8-12

On top of that aim for 45 mins of LISS a week at minimum, and preferably get around 75-90 mins a week if possible.

Getting big and strong doesn’t require dozens of movements, quite the contrary actually. Pick effective movements per muscle group, progressively overload them over time. That’s it really.

[TAWS6]

I like to rotate through the work outs. Legs, push, off, pull, off repeat. That way you can keep the volume decent. I agree that no human needs 6 days in the gym but every noob thinks they are special.

[keyboardworkout]

Paul Carter Mass Routine

Day 1 – Push

A.  Chest Pressing Movement 
B.  Chest Isolation Movement 
C.  Shoulder Pressing Movement 
D.  Shoulder Isolation Movement 
E.  Triceps Movement (compound variation) 
F.  Triceps Movement (isolation variation) 

Note: Examples of compound triceps movements include dips and close-grip bench presses, while examples of triceps isolation movements include kickbacks and cable extensions.

Day 2 – Pull

A.  Vertical Pulling Movement 
B.  Another Vertical Pulling Movement 
C.  Horizontal Pulling Movement 
D.  Another Horizontal Pulling Movement 
E.  2 Biceps Movements (pretty much all curl variations) 

Day 3 – Legs

A.  Quad Isolation Movement 
B.  Quad Compound Movement 
C.  Hamstring Isolation Movement 
D.  Hamstring Compound Movement 
E.  2 Calf Movements 

[BeginnerGainz]

Paul Carter Mass Routine

Day 1 – Push

A.  Chest Pressing Movement 
B.  Chest Isolation Movement 
C.  Shoulder Pressing Movement 
D.  Shoulder Isolation Movement 
E.  Triceps Movement (compound variation) 
F.  Triceps Movement (isolation variation) 

Note: Examples of compound triceps movements include dips and close-grip bench presses, while examples of triceps isolation movements include kickbacks and cable extensions.

Day 2 – Pull

A.  Vertical Pulling Movement 
B.  Another Vertical Pulling Movement 
C.  Horizontal Pulling Movement 
D.  Another Horizontal Pulling Movement 
E.  2 Biceps Movements (pretty much all curl variations) 

Day 3 – Legs

A.  Quad Isolation Movement 
B.  Quad Compound Movement 
C.  Hamstring Isolation Movement 
D.  Hamstring Compound Movement 
E.  2 Calf Movements 

This is fine if you’re only doing 1x a week frequency, might be overkill if doing it 2x a week.

[MyEgoProblem]

The principles not bad.
The layout? Not sold, but ill walk this back if the workloads line up with experience and under the proviso that one n of the big quad movements is a "squat" pattern.

The biggest issue i see with ppl (as posted here or in the echo chamber of social media) is certainly that people trying to cram far more than they can handle into the week. It's not inherently worse! Its just very easy to f up

Its so easy to write a ppl that's as good as anything else.. Days in gym really only matter if it effects your real life and takes too long.

My opinion is no more important than yours. Before anyone jumps in cD

[BeginnerGainz]

The principles not bad.
The layout? Not sold, but ill walk this back if the workloads line up with experience and under the proviso that one n of the big quad movements is a "squat" pattern. ������

The biggest issue i see with ppl (as posted here or in the echo chamber of social media) is certainly that people trying to cram far more than they can handle into the week. It's not inherently worse! Its just very easy to f up ������

Its so easy to write a ppl that's as good as anything else.. Days in gym really only matter if it effects your real life and takes too long.

You know how I roll, every work set is 0-2 RIR depending on the movement, over 3 work sets, except for back and deadlifts which would get 2 each since your doing more back/PC work in a week anyway.

[EliKoehn]

Sorry, can't resist dude...

Why is the trap bar the preferred deadlift? If you don't personally like the squat either, why bastardize the two lifts into a variation which is just easier at the same weight than either?

[air2fakie]

There's nothing inherently "wrong" with a 6-day PPL format. If someone enjoys lifting 6 days/week, they can take any other program suitable for them and break up the volume into a 6 day, PPL structure.

PPLs tend to be inappropriate because you often have novice lifters with low numbers running high volume PPLs more suitable for advanced non-naturals.

[TAWS6]

There's nothing inherently "wrong" with a 6-day PPL format. If someone enjoys lifting 6 days/week, they can take any other program suitable for them and break up the volume into a 6 day, PPL structure.

PPLs tend to be inappropriate because you often have novice lifters with low numbers running high volume PPLs more suitable for advanced non-naturals.

I love it when a person who squats 200 and benches 135 lbs runs a full blown ppl6 day split. Hilarious waste of time.

[BeginnerGainz]

Sorry, can't resist dude...

Why is the trap bar the preferred deadlift? If you don't personally like the squat either, why bastardize the two lifts into a variation which is just easier at the same weight than either?

It is just a better way to deadlift. Everything is in a stronger more stable position.

Add that to the studies that have shown it’s effectiveness in athletes and well…just about everyone else, and it is a no brainer really.

You can still squat for a quad movement if that is your jam but most people suck at squats that bias the quads. No type of ankle mobility, sitting way the f!ck back, and forget about depth.

I love it when a person who squats 200 and benches 135 lbs runs a full blown ppl6 day split. Hilarious waste of time.

Something something forest and trees and such

[EliKoehn]

Everything is in a stronger more stable position.

All leverage advantages aside, while one could argue that it's a plus for training balance, Z-axis stability with the hex bar is almost nonexistent, especially at lockout. I would say stronger, but would not say more stable.

[BeginnerGainz]

All leverage advantages aside, while one could argue that it's a plus for training balance, Z-axis stability with the hex bar is almost nonexistent, especially at lockout. I would say stronger, but would not say more stable.

I’m referring to the shoulder joint, specifically. It is in a much more stable position. Stronger shoulder position = tighter lats = more stability throughout the entire back.

I’ve never had a problem with bar swaying. Or observed it in anyone I’ve trained on it. Seems like a non-issue. I watched Mark Rippetoe’s video on it and he literally has to push the bar around after the guy demonstrating it simply lifts it straight up.

[lsiberian]

I’m referring to the shoulder joint, specifically. It is in a much more stable position. Stronger shoulder position = tighter lats = more stability throughout the entire back.

I’ve never had a problem with bar swaying. Or observed it in anyone I’ve trained on it. Seems like a non-issue. I watched Mark Rippetoe’s video on it and he literally has to push the bar around after the guy demonstrating it simply lifts it straight up.

He straight up just doesn't want to pay for a bunch of trap bars and backed into his reasoning IMO. He also advocates people take 10 minute rests, get fat and grind out sets at the end of an LP.

[EliKoehn]

I’m referring to the shoulder joint, specifically. It is in a much more stable position. Stronger shoulder position = tighter lats = more stability throughout the entire back.

I’ve never had a problem with bar swaying. Or observed it in anyone I’ve trained on it. Seems like a non-issue. I watched Mark Rippetoe’s video on it and he literally has to push the bar around after the guy demonstrating it simply lifts it straight up.

Yeah, I saw that video too. He literally pushed a guy holding weight, which kind of surprised me. I don't do them too much, so it could just be me, but when I pulled 5 for a double somewhat recently, the top 25% of the lift felt unmoored, like you shoot upwards through the sticking point and then it wants to wobble.

I think relative to the conventional, the contact of the bar with the thighs and the upper back engagement pulling it against them means that if you're holding the weight at all, it's anchored.

He straight up just doesn't want to pay for a bunch of trap bars and backed into his reasoning IMO. He also advocates people take 10 minute rests, get fat and grind out sets at the end of an LP.

It's not even so much Rippetoe's actual approach which gets on my nerves so much as his exclusive "everyone else who isn't doing it this way is wrong" and rude mentality. It's not like people don't make legitimate gains doing SS, but a lot of the approach seems simply wrongfooted and inefficient.

I'm not currently in shape myself, but whoever thought it was a good idea to encourage people to get fat or to be content with it in the context of athleticism did no one a service.

[MyEgoProblem]

Eh...
Trap bars are ok.
Certainly don't agree they are more stable at the shoulder joint.

Unless you're straight bar pulls at abysmal 😂

Id take a car dead over a trap dead 10/10 times.

Dont hate them, but the findin a good version of the bar is a bigger ball ache than anything else.

[TAWS6]

Rips lifters legit bulk to like 35 percent body fat sometimes. It’s absolutely disgusting. “I put 60 lbs on a kid” lol. Yeah diet them down to even a remotely lean level and watch what happens.

[jaxqen]

Sorry, can't resist dude...

Why is the trap bar the preferred deadlift? If you don't personally like the squat either, why bastardize the two lifts into a variation which is just easier at the same weight than either?

Sorry, I also can't resist dude {not agreeing with the meme, just found it funny}






Seriously now, I like them both, bb or trap bar
I don't understand the bastardize into a squat thing
You can bastardize it with both bb and trap bar
Sure, it's easier to bastardize it with trap bar, but one can do a good hinge with a trap bar - low handles, even deficit

The advantage of the trap bar is that it requires less skill and can be suited for most people
Also, from what I've seen, many professional athletes use it, especially in MMA

Bb bench is also easier at the same weight than db bench, I don't see it as an argument



Rippetoe complained it was too much freedom of movement in the sagittal plan. But this shouldn't be a problem unless Rippetoe comes and starts moving your trap bar when you are at the top.

[joewattie]

Why is the trap bar the preferred deadlift? If you don't personally like the squat either, why bastardize the two lifts into a variation which is just easier at the same weight than either?

Can't speak for the OP but, as for me, I prefer the trap bar because I'm old (ancient) complete with arthritis and an inventory of injuries. The Trap Bar is easier on my back and knees. I don't have to pitch forward and I don't have to go as deep. So, for me, it's a choice of "genuine make-believe deadlifts" or NO deadlifts.