Misc Firearms Crew LXXXII: Stamp Collecting Brandon Style...Bracing for Ultra Amnesty

[Farley1324]

That's the thing, how much is enough rounds to know it would work in a self defense situation when i blow through hundreds of rounds using ball ammo?


This is what i don't like about carrying HP vs FMJ.

We train with FMJ but we carry with HP


I guess that's the chance we take to defend ourselves

That's not the "chance you take", that's the "more training and practice is better than less training and practice" + "quality JHP is more likely to stop an attacker sooner than round nose FMJ" + "quality defensive JHP tend to be made to a higher standard than FMJ"

Once upon a time I bought a Glock 30SF (this was pre Gen4), even though the Internets told me the G34SF was a problem child model I listened to the apologists saying it was the internets making something out of nothing. I opened one 50 round box of a premium JHP, and fired 39 rounds to test (after 100+ rounds FMJ), then loaded the final 11 into it to carry.

When I went back to the range the second time, I had a failure in that magazine I was carrying. I switched to a different premium JHP and suffered 2 failures in a 50 round box. So my personal experience says at least 50. (I sent it back to Glock, who said it was okay and sent it back to me, I had the same failures, so I sent it back again and got a G21SF instead which was flawless, the issue was FTRTB and I had multiples of those with both winchester range and Federal HST)

I used to say 200. But that's kind of expensive. These days I buy known-good models and I'm happy to start carrying it with 200 rounds FMJ and 50 rounds of JHP, but like it better when I get 100 rounds JHP as proof.

Remember when you consider the "cost" of shooting the JHP, it's not really the cost of the round, it's the difference between what that round cost and what a FMJ would have cost.

So if you are shooting 80 CPR JHP vs 25 CPR FMJ, the difference of 55 CPR is really "the cost" of shooting that JHP. Not a huge thing but just sayin'

[bluebeltATT]

You certainly can.

But:

1. It's not about killing, it's about stopping ASAP
2. You probably won't be ambushing someone and shooting them unexpectedly before they can fight back
3. Plenty of gang bangers shoot someone without immediately stopping them, or get shot and don't immediately stop
4. Gang bangers aren't worried about liability of a round over penetrating and then hitting another person, kind of second fiddle to the whole premeditated murder thing they are starting with
5. You probably won't be drive-by shooting people where they never shoot back and you don't care if they take 3 minutes to stop voluntary action and 3 days to die where a gangbanger is happy with that outcome

That's not the "chance you take", that's the "more training and practice is better than less training and practice" + "quality JHP is more likely to stop an attacker sooner than round nose FMJ" + "quality defensive JHP tend to be made to a higher standard than FMJ"

Once upon a time I bought a Glock 30SF (this was pre Gen4), even though the Internets told me the G34SF was a problem child model I listened to the apologists saying it was the internets making something out of nothing. I opened one 50 round box of a premium JHP, and fired 39 rounds to test (after 100+ rounds FMJ), then loaded the final 11 into it to carry.

When I went back to the range the second time, I had a failure in that magazine I was carrying. I switched to a different premium JHP and suffered 2 failures in a 50 round box. So my personal experience says at least 50. (I sent it back to Glock, who said it was okay and sent it back to me, I had the same failures, so I sent it back again and got a G21SF instead which was flawless, the issue was FTRTB and I had multiples of those with both winchester range and Federal HST)

I used to say 200. But that's kind of expensive. These days I buy known-good models and I'm happy to start carrying it with 200 rounds FMJ and 50 rounds of JHP, but like it better when I get 100 rounds JHP as proof.

Remember when you consider the "cost" of shooting the JHP, it's not really the cost of the round, it's the difference between what that round cost and what a FMJ would have cost.

So if you are shooting 80 CPR JHP vs 25 CPR FMJ, the difference of 55 CPR is really "the cost" of shooting that JHP. Not a huge thing but just sayin'

Man this is why i love this thread


Intelligent conversations that open my mind to other posibillities



I could never get this information in the real world as most people i interact with have no idea what FMJ or HP means




I should start to train with HP to get the feel of what HP feels like as it exits.



Is there a difference regarding the HP vs the FMJ round as it enters using the feed ramp?


I can't find the info but i read that the HP enters the chamber slower because of the shape vs the FMJ that has a round shape.


I can't imagine the firearms companies didn't take this into account when doing their R&D.





feel good video for your trouble


White guy was a CCW holder
https://www.********.com/dylan.newso...ibextid=Nif5oz

[Farley1324]

Man this is why i love this thread


Intelligent conversations that open my mind to other posibillities



I could never get this information in the real world as most people i interact with have no idea what FMJ or HP means




I should start to train with HP to get the feel of what HP feels like as it exits.



Is there a difference regarding the HP vs the FMJ round as it enters using the feed ramp?


I can't find the info but i read that the HP enters the chamber slower because of the shape vs the FMJ that has a round shape.


I can't imagine the firearms companies didn't take this into account when doing their R&D.





feel good video for your trouble


White guy was a CCW holder
https://www.********.com/dylan.newso...ibextid=Nif5oz

Talking to people about stuff like this is literally what I do

Yes, there is a difference hitting the feed ramp. That is part of why the good modern JHP are not gaping ashtrays they were engineered to open reliably and consistently without a large opening on the front, better feeding and it's probably the main reason why JHP need to be tested in your hands with your magazines in your gun(s), feeding issues can potentially be a thing (especially with 1911's)

You want to shoot enough, and shoot your gun enough, that you know what it should feel like. You can potentially feel the slight catch or hangup or slowdown as the JHP hits the feed ramp.

On the 30SF I referenced above, I could feel it, and I could feel it when it came back from Glock and it took 90 rounds of JHP to get the next failure, but I could feel that it was different than the FMJ and knew it was off. I learned to feel the difference with that gun, I think, and use that when I shoot the rest of my guns now as a reference. I shoot FMJ then JHP and the feed part of the slide closing feels the same and it functions well and I feel better about the whole thing

[Ikeman83]

I'm not sure how people filing Form 1s is trying to get around the NFA when it comes to Solvent Traps

[Farley1324]

I'm not sure how people filing Form 1s is trying to get around the NFA when it comes to Solvent Traps

I'm not sure how you think the reason they are an issue is people who are filing form 1's

[Ikeman83]

I'm not sure how you think the reason they are an issue is people who are filing form 1's

Why is that a problem to be born by law-abiding citizens?

[Farley1324]

Why is that a problem to be born by law-abiding citizens?

"Solvent trap"


lol

[Ikeman83]

"Solvent trap"


lol

It's objectively not a suppressor until you drill it, identical to a P80 frame or barrel blank.

[Farley1324]

It's objectively not a suppressor until you drill it, identical to a P80 frame or barrel blank.

[Brozef]

It's just as easy, if not easier, to put together an SBR as it is to drill holes in a solvent trap.

They just don't have a grasp on their area of concern. I hope they crash and burn.

[Farley1324]

It's just as easy, if not easier, to put together an SBR as it is to drill holes in a solvent trap.

They just don't have a grasp on their area of concern. I hope they crash and burn.

It's far easier to assemble an SBR than it is to buy a solvent trap and drill it out into a silencer. You're comparing field stripping a Glock to detail stripping a 1911 here lol

[Brozef]

Both are against the law but they decided they had a problem with those solvent traps. It's so stupid.

[EDcellent]

Hopefully Elon can buy the ATF too.

[FarmersSon]

You say solvent trap, we all know you mean unregistered silencer

Not really the same thing as an accessory to a semi automatic firearm being declared a machine gun

The pistol brace falls in between those.

A bump stock clearly and without question is a semi automatic firearm, period, full stop. The "solvent trap" is clearly intended to be used as an unregistered silencer, little gray area when the possessor possibly has not yet used it in that capacity. So, in between. Pistol brace though, when put on a short barrel firearm, is functionally identical to an SBR. Like, pistol braces are unregistered SBR's and we all know it.

But, SBR's should not be regulated any different than rifles or pistols anyway and the cat is out of the bag and the brace itself is clearly not an NFA item it's a ****ing brace if there is any argument at all to be made against them, it would be that putting a brace on what would otherwise be an SBR if it had a stock, is still an SBR because the "brace" is functionally identical to a stock and we all know it and you sound like a retard when you claim otherwise

I'm with you on bump stocks. Machine guns are legally defined by federal statutes and bump stocks clearly fall outside the definition. Intent and use don't really matter because machine guns are defined based on mechanics. I went back and looked up the history of the litigation on bump stocks, and now I'm a little more pessimistic. As clear cut a case as it appears to us, it's been upheld 3 or 4 times prior to the most recent judgment and there were 3 judges dissenting in the most recent case.

Pretty much with you on braces, too. Regarding suppressors, unlike bump stocks I don't think the legal definition helps us:

"The National Firearms Act defines a silencer to include any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication."

It's a crap definition, but there it is. The broadest interpretation, which is what an unfriendly judge would use, classifies anything part you intend to make into a silencer as a silencer. This would appear to shut down the hobbyist with a machine shop as well, but from what have read, they have been allowed to continue. I don't think the solvent trap manufacturers intended their kits to be used as unregistered silencers. I think they intended for people to buy them, register them, and use them as silencers. The careful manufacturers took all discussion of silencers off their websites to try and stay legal. The silly thing is the only reason the form 1 kits became so popular was because of the ridiculous wait with form 4s. It's a pipe dream, but I would like the definition of a silencer thrown out - at least portions of it.

[Brozef]

And that's what I'm saying. The companies that sell barreled uppers less than 16" intend for they're customers to "make" pistols or legal registered SBRs .

[FarmersSon]

And that's what I'm saying. The companies that sell barreled uppers less than 16" intend for they're customers to "make" pistols or legal registered SBRs .

Yeah, I agree completely.

[jiujitsubro]

Just curious. Whats the drive towards SBR pistols vs 16" ARs?

[Brozef]

Just curious. Whats the drive towards SBR pistols vs 16" ARs?

This is just over 17" with the can. Does that give you some ideas why?

Spoiler!

Plus the fact that 16" is the NFA cucked length, among other things.

[jiujitsubro]

This is just over 17" with the can. Does that give you some ideas why?

Spoiler!

I see

[EDcellent]

Just wanted the 1911th post.

[3000RT]

Is it worth waiting 9months for a integrated suppressor and be under the 16inch rule? Seems like a no since I dont know anybody with them but I was thinking for a PCC home defense.

[Farley1324]

Just curious. Whats the drive towards [braced] pistols vs 16" ARs?

Maneuverability

Ability to use a silencer without stupid lengths

An SBR or braced pistol with a full size can is very close in overall length to a regular 16"

But a silencer can be removed and, if it's a braced pistol, the firearm is now a regular title 1 not a super red tape NFA item so it's much less restrictive vs an SBR.

Also you don't need a 5320.20 to interstate a silencer but you do an SBR

[EDcellent]

So it looks like I'm done shopping for parts. I was going to start ordering stuff, but I wanted to run it by you guys first. I already have my LaRue upper for the unaware.


Iron sights - Magpul flip up gen 3

Lower receiver - Stag arms

Lower parts kit (for receiver) - LaRue

Trigger - LaRue

https://www.larue.com/products/larue...**-2s-trigger/

Stock - Magpul STR

https://palmettostatearmory.com/magp...ec-mag470.html

Grip - Magpul

https://palmettostatearmory.com/magp...m4-mag520.html

Foregrip - Magpul

Trigger guard - Magpul


I included links on the specific stuff for more details, the other stuff is just basic.


And this BCM buffer tube setup is a A5 setup, right?

https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-mk2-...stem-mod-1-t1/


I'm going to wait to get the EOTech/magnifier setup next month. Other than that I believe that's everything to complete my build.



If anyone has any substitutions or suggestions, let me know. My only bias is towards the Magpul stuff and Stag arms receiver due to being local businesses and cost effective.

[Brozef]

How do plan to use the gun, mostly?

[fate0311]

Scenario for you guys.

You enjoy visiting your parents on the weekends. Your parents live exactly 30 minutes from your house but the most direct route requires you to briefly (10 minutes of trip) commute through a neighboring state that you don't have a CCW for.

Do you:
a.) just not carry the days you visit your parents
b.) take the alternate route that keeps you in your state of CCW but adds 15 min to trip
c.) carry anyway and chance a felony
d.) your a ****ing idiot, just get the CCW for the other state as well

I know my option 'd' makes the most sense. But this particular state is a liberal cuck mess and CCW's take a while. For now, in the interum, what would you do?

It isn't so much of me believing something would ever happen, but more of the principle of consistent carry as a habit.

[Horse86]

well fellas....planning on ordering my AR pistol by end of the week. Against popular opinion I'm going the 300blk route. Yes ammo costs are going to suck. But i'm not really interested in just plinking or blowing thousands of rounds a year at the range. 300blk hits all the boxes that I want: something I can still have fun with at the range and shoot several hundred rounds a year, perfect for running suppressed (home defense), works for hunting big game, can reach out to 200yrds comfortably all day and even 300 (making some adjustments), and comes in a compact package. This will accompany my g19 for my "work" guns. I have other rifles specifically for hunting, etc.

[Farley1324]

well fellas....planning on ordering my AR pistol by end of the week. Against popular opinion I'm going the 300blk route. Yes ammo costs are going to suck. But i'm not really interested in just plinking or blowing thousands of rounds a year at the range. 300blk hits all the boxes that I want: something I can still have fun with at the range and shoot several hundred rounds a year, perfect for running suppressed (great for home defense), works for hunting big game, can reach out to 200yrds comfortably all day and even 300 (making some adjustments), and comes in a compact package. This will accompany my g19 for my "work" guns. I have other rifles specifically for hunting, etc.

A rarely shot gun for a goal of a few hundred rounds a year, yeah, ammo cost isn't a big factor

[EDcellent]

How do plan to use the gun, mostly?

I'm trying to build a rifle that I can train with. I plan on shooting a lot/often with at the range. Up to 500 yards would be ideal. I also plan to LARP and use it for any training classes or CQB drills I can do. I understand that an SBR would be better, but I don't mind building a rifle just for that down the road. Primarily it'll be 70% range and training toy, 30% home defense drills, 100% SHTF rifle. I plan to order a suppressor from silencer central too.

Scenario for you guys.

You enjoy visiting your parents on the weekends. Your parents live exactly 30 minutes from your house but the most direct route requires you to briefly (10 minutes of trip) commute through a neighboring state that you don't have a CCW for.

Do you:
a.) just not carry the days you visit your parents
b.) take the alternate route that keeps you in your state of CCW but adds 15 min to trip
c.) carry anyway and chance a felony
d.) your a ****ing idiot, just get the CCW for the other state as well

I know my option 'd' makes the most sense. But this particular state is a liberal cuck mess and CCW's take a while. For now, in the interum, what would you do?

It isn't so much of me believing something would ever happen, but more of the principle of consistent carry as a habit.

This state that you're referring to, can you open carry legally in your vehicle? Otherwise I'd avoid the state entirely and take the longer route imo. Yeah sure odds are you'll be fine if you drove through this state in question anyway, but you'll probably be in deep chit if you get pulled over or get into a situation where you need to use it.

well fellas....planning on ordering my AR pistol by end of the week. Against popular opinion I'm going the 300blk route. Yes ammo costs are going to suck. But i'm not really interested in just plinking or blowing thousands of rounds a year at the range. 300blk hits all the boxes that I want: something I can still have fun with at the range and shoot several hundred rounds a year, perfect for running suppressed (home defense), works for hunting big game, can reach out to 200yrds comfortably all day and even 300 (making some adjustments), and comes in a compact package. This will accompany my g19 for my "work" guns. I have other rifles specifically for hunting, etc.

Sounds like it'll be what you're looking for, good luck with your purchase and enjoy it!

[Brozef]

well fellas....planning on ordering my AR pistol by end of the week. Against popular opinion I'm going the 300blk route. Yes ammo costs are going to suck. But i'm not really interested in just plinking or blowing thousands of rounds a year at the range. 300blk hits all the boxes that I want: something I can still have fun with at the range and shoot several hundred rounds a year, perfect for running suppressed (home defense), works for hunting big game, can reach out to 200yrds comfortably all day and even 300 (making some adjustments), and comes in a compact package. This will accompany my g19 for my "work" guns. I have other rifles specifically for hunting, etc.

It's not a bad choice at all. I shoot 300 blk a lot, and I use it to hunt. There is some really great ammo out there in that caliber.

Plus you can always get a 5.56 upper down the road.

Spoiler!

[Wakaaa]

Get him some firearm training ASAP.

most acidental firearm discharges are because people have no training and don't know how to handle a weapon


Imagine not knowing how to drive then getting behind the wheel of an 18 wheeler?


Yeah bad things are going to happen

My son isn't even 2 years old yet. I will teach him gun safety 100% what age did you guys begin?

I always liked the idea of having a Biometric Nightstand Gun Safe. I never had one, but I always liked the idea.

ETA: go to Amazon, put biometric nightstand safe in the search engine. You’ll be overwhelmed at the number of options.

Thanks, will do.

I've seen vaultek stuff in person, they seem to be good quality and reliable setups.

https://vaulteksafe.com/








I don't expect to ever experience a home invasion, but I only have one means of egress into my apartment unless someone smashed a window to get in. Either way I'll hear the fool with the missing chromosome picking the wrong rentcel to steal from.

Thanks I'll check that out as well

Should throw it away and get an RMR

In on RMR convo, I bought one to put on my G17 MOS and still haven't done so. I need to put on the new iron sights.

Scenario for you guys.

You enjoy visiting your parents on the weekends. Your parents live exactly 30 minutes from your house but the most direct route requires you to briefly (10 minutes of trip) commute through a neighboring state that you don't have a CCW for.

Do you:
a.) just not carry the days you visit your parents
b.) take the alternate route that keeps you in your state of CCW but adds 15 min to trip
c.) carry anyway and chance a felony
d.) your a ****ing idiot, just get the CCW for the other state as well

I know my option 'd' makes the most sense. But this particular state is a liberal cuck mess and CCW's take a while. For now, in the interum, what would you do?

It isn't so much of me believing something would ever happen, but more of the principle of consistent carry as a habit.

It's illegal to keep it in your car while you drive?

Check your laws for your state. I know states local to Illinois, if a state doesn't allow you to carry due to not having reciprocity of Illinois CCL, you can keep your firearm loaded as long as it stays in the car.