Accessory and supplemental lifts progression?

[JitsuLifting]

Im looking at all those powerlifting programs, usually there are no direct progression laid out for accessory and hypertrophy work.

How do you guys progress accessory and supplemental lifts? That are not based on percentages.

Usually for my big main lifts like squat, deadlift and bench, im just increasing percentages over the mesocycle.

But for supplemental lifts and accessory, whats the most common way to progress when doing powerlifting/strength training?

Im mostly using accessory lifts to drive hypertrophy.

[MyEgoProblem]

Either rpe or double progression.
Just autoregulate and track to ensure you have an upwards trend over time. If you don't, you need to adjust.

[BeginnerGainz]

For clients, I generally have them follow a “2-2” rule. If they can do 2 more reps or more, on the last set of an exercise, for 2 sessions in a row, then next time they up the weight.

[air2fakie]

If you’ve been lifting for years, as long as some stuff is progressing in your program, you’re fine. Progression isn’t infinite, and you can’t predict exactly when or how it’ll happen.

[JitsuLifting]

When it comes to progressive overload, let say you do something like this

Week 1: 3 x 5 at 85%
Week 2: 3 x 3 at 87.5%
Week 3: 3 x 1 at 90%

Would the increase from 85% to 87.5% be called progressive overload? or is it when you are setting new prs and doing weight or reps you have never done before?

Do each week need to have more stimuli then recent previous stimuli for strength and growth to happen?


Whats the difference in progressive overload for strength vs hypertrophy?

[RapidFail]

After trying a few different progression methods, I've found my favourite - for compound and isolation lifts - is dynamic double progression. I'll set a rep range and when I can hit the top of the rep range on the first set, I'll add weight.

For example, I do lateral raises in the 12-20 rep range and take every set to failure. Below is how I performed for the lateral raise for the first 7 weeks of my current program.

Week 1
17 x 8.5kg
15 x 8.5kg
12 x 8.5kg

Week 2
18 x 8.5kg
14 x 8 5kg
12 x 8.5kg

Week 3
18 x 8.5kg
15 x 8.5kg
12 x 8.5kg
11 x 8.5kg (decided to add a set)

Week 4
19 x 8.5kg
14 x 8.5kg
12 x 8.5kg
11 x 8.5kg

Week 5 (deload)

Week 6
20 x 8 5kg (hit top of rep range, adding weight)
14 x 8.5kg
12 x 8.5kg
11 x 8.5kg

Week 7
16 x 9.25kg
12 x 9.25kg
10 x 9.25kg
10 x 9.25kg

[JitsuLifting]

When it comes to progressive overload, let say you do something like this

Week 1: 3 x 5 at 85%
Week 2: 3 x 3 at 87.5%
Week 3: 3 x 1 at 90%

Would the increase from 85% to 87.5% be called progressive overload? or is it when you are setting new prs and doing weight or reps you have never done before?

Do each week need to have more stimuli then recent previous stimuli for strength and growth to happen?


Whats the difference in progressive overload for strength vs hypertrophy?

Guys?

[FurtadoZ9]

Guys?

No. In that scenario those first 3 weeks are laying the foundation to reference and build from. Yes you are increasing the percentages (weight) but you are decreasing the volume (reps). There is no positive overload.

If on week 4 you were then to do 3 x 5 @ +5-10lbs or +1 rep, then that is considered a progressive overload.

[MyEgoProblem]

Boom! ^ z9 on point 100%.

Yeah.
Increasing percentages.
That's not progressive overload.
That's arbitrary load progression.

Its only progressive overload if when you come back to it the load is heavier WITHOUT it been harder.

Periodisation for hypertrophy is unnecessary.
Just work hard.

----

Progressive overload (is a **** term) is frequently used backwards. Because of outdated thinking.

People think lifting more weight/reps forces improvements.. No.

When you can lift more that DISPLAYS that you improved from the appropriate workload.

Just Changing % is making it heavier - this is not you getting stronger - especially if reps drop.

[coachcalande]

After trying a few different progression methods, I've found my favourite - for compound and isolation lifts - is dynamic double progression. I'll set a rep range and when I can hit the top of the rep range on the first set, I'll add weight.

For example, I do lateral raises in the 12-20 rep range and take every set to failure. Below is how I performed for the lateral raise for the first 7 weeks of my current program.

Week 1
17 x 8.5kg
15 x 8.5kg
12 x 8.5kg

Week 2
18 x 8.5kg
14 x 8 5kg
12 x 8.5kg

Week 3
18 x 8.5kg
15 x 8.5kg
12 x 8.5kg
11 x 8.5kg (decided to add a set)

Week 4
19 x 8.5kg
14 x 8.5kg
12 x 8.5kg
11 x 8.5kg

Week 5 (deload)

Week 6
20 x 8 5kg (hit top of rep range, adding weight)
14 x 8.5kg
12 x 8.5kg
11 x 8.5kg

Week 7
16 x 9.25kg
12 x 9.25kg
10 x 9.25kg
10 x 9.25kg

This is my favorite way to train too. I give myself an upper limit for reps. Say 10 on some things, 12 on others, 15 on others. I’ll never use a weight that allows me more than the upper limit….but I can go as heavy as I want ….whenever I feel like it.

That’s it. Train to failure and use the weights that limit the reps.

[jaxqen]

After trying a few different progression methods, I've found my favourite - for compound and isolation lifts - is dynamic double progression. I'll set a rep range and when I can hit the top of the rep range on the first set, I'll add weight.

What other methods did you try?
Because there aren't many.
Except RPE, which I consider too complicated for me, it's mostly double progression {for all sets or only for the top set} that it quite intuitive, people use it without knowing about it. Seems logical to try and get a desired number of reps before increase weight. I did it when I began lifting without reading about it.



Also, I like the rep goal system, but it's basically the same thing. you try to get to a certain number of reps and then increase weight.

[MyEgoProblem]

That's pretty much what I've gotten back to for my isos/1 joint hypertrophy lifts...
And occasionally on big lifts if im. Short on time, but rather do speed work instead purely for the enjoyment.

First set decides progression.
In a rep range.
Sets 2-6~ are gonna be rep drop as above or rest pause (borge style myos are my fave)
or timed density block which is similar to rep drop but purely on the clock with sub max sets which i like to do with new lifts to get a good gauge of wtf is on.

Rep drop 60s rest
1- 20*15
2-20*12
3- 20*10
4-20*8

Rp 5 count rest
1- 20*15 initial set
2-20*5
3- 20*5
4-20*5
5-20*5
6-20*5

Density block 7 minutes
1- 20*15 initial set to find my days load
Timer starts
2-20*12@8
3- 20*10@8
..
8- 20*6@8
6-20*5@8

[RapidFail]

What other methods did you try?
Because there aren't many.
Except RPE, which I consider too complicated for me, it's mostly double progression {for all sets or only for the top set} that it quite intuitive, people use it without knowing about it. Seems logical to try and get a desired number of reps before increase weight. I did it when I began lifting without reading about it.



Also, I like the rep goal system, but it's basically the same thing. you try to get to a certain number of reps and then increase weight.

Fierce 5 Novice - linear progression, added weight every week until stall, then reduce load by 15% and build back up.

Ripped Body Beginner Bodybuilding - started with linear progressio, then switched to double progression, where I needed to hit the top of the rep range for all sets before adding weight. Used wave loading for compound exercises.

Outlift - finished each exercise with an AMRAP set - load increases were autoregulated as a result.

[CW47]

There are 3 overarching factors:
- Quantity of work
- Speed of work
- Quality of work

A lot of examples of these have already been mentioned.
- Increasing weight and/or reps
- Getting the same amount of work done in less time
- Improving technique

You can go deeper still and find that there are many specific protocols for each type of progression (example - double progression).

Having said that, progressive overload on a specific exercise is not necessarily needed on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis. This is especially true for accessory work. You could go months without any obvious progression and it would still be okay, because the primary goal of this type of work is to build the muscles. You can progressively overload them if and when if feels appropriate, but it need not be the goal. The area where you should be progressively overloading is on your primary and secondary (or main and supplemental) lifts. For example, if you are already progressively overloading your competition bench and your close grip bench, you're overloading all of the main movers in that lift. As a result there's not really any need to do so individually on you triceps extensions. You CAN, but you don't NEED to to progress, and it shouldn't be your main objective.

[jademonkey]

Most little accessories I just pick a weight and start moving it, see how it feels, and adjust on the next set as needed. Tracking those things can be all over the place based on what you did previously in the workout.

[JitsuLifting]

Whats the difference in progressive overload for strength vs hypertrophy?