Recovery takes months, and always has, why?

[air2fakie]

If you have any suggestions about what those possible health issues might be I am MORE than willing to listen and discuss them with my doctor. I have discussed this issue with no less than 5 doctors in recent years and not a single one of them has any suggestion that worked.

Following up on my earlier Q about your prior medical visits to which you responded with utter sarcasm, if it were me & I had your beliefs, I would've consulted with a sports doctor at some point in the last 27 years & tried to get them to order a (hopefully covered) MRI and/or ultrasound shortly after a workout & at some point in the next few months during which I believed my muscles were still not recovered, so that he or she could examine if there were any abnormalities.

That would be the starting point for me (& hopefully the doctor) to determine whether it truly is a "muscle recovery" issue or perhaps some other illness, condition or combination of factors. And then I would branch out to other potential health issues in discussion with such doctor if necessary.

But I would discuss the above with the sports doctor & listen to any alternative tests/ideas as well, and I certainly wouldn't self-diagnose the workout symptom as a 100% muscle recovery problem up front. Plus if I had this issue since I was 15 when I was fat & in the 27 years since I had gotten more obese, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that my extra weight may on its own or have underlying related health issues that also may be a factor. But that's me, I understand you have a very different approach towards your health & a very different attitude towards other opinions than me. I stand by everything I said in my past posts to you & about your attitude, if you feel they're personal attacks & stand by your responses to me, so be it. Again, I wish you luck on finding a solution to your problem but I'm done.

[NoSuchNumber]

This is clearly not the case. That's why it's hard to believe any other of your observations.

Go talk to some fat people who have actually tried their whole lives and are still fat then get back to me on that.

If I was the sort of person who ate an average crappy diet with several meals a day, ate pizza, pasta, bread, and desserts several times a week I would have been 800lbs or dead years ago.

This is what me, and many other fat people, actually trying hard looks like. Sure some people are fat and lazy, don't care and stuff whatever they want in their face without ever leaving the couch, but it certainly isn't all of them, and heck, how many of even those people are like me but gave up after years of trying?

Start googling:

Adenovirus 36 DNA in Adipose Tissue of Patient with Unusual Visceral Obesity
Chances of fat person losing weight and keeping it off
Men's testosterone levels declined in last 20 years
Environmental impact of estrogens on human, animal and plant life
Stress, cortisol, and obesity
How metabolism slows down when you try to lose weight
Inherited metabolic disorders

That is the tip of the iceberg for possible reasons someone who eats a healthy diet still has problems being fat.

Skinny people with good working metabolisms swear by the calories in = calories out. People who have fought with it for years know it isn't that simple for everyone.

Not everyone comes from the factory in perfect working order. Non lethal sub optimal genetic issues abound, and as toxins and pollutants in our environment rise and interfere more and more with our hormones, the true controllers of our metabolism and obesity, it is just going to get more and more common.

Also, for reference the very least I have weighed as an adult was when I was 27 and got down to 238lbs, that was me spending about 8 months eating just a whole rotisserie chicken every day, then an additional 6 months eating a 14oz can of green beans and a 3oz can of tuna a day. The highest I have ever been was about 385lbs at 36 when I was commuting 6 hours a day and had a job parked at a desk all day on the phone and didn't have much choice but to sit there. Neither of these weights had any noticeable difference in weight lifting recovery.

[NoSuchNumber]

Following up on my earlier Q about your prior medical visits to which you responded with utter sarcasm, if it were me & I had your beliefs, I would've consulted with a sports doctor at some point in the last 27 years & tried to get them to order a (hopefully covered) MRI and/or ultrasound shortly after a workout & at some point in the next few months during which I believed my muscles were still not recovered, so that he or she could examine if there were any abnormalities.

That would be the starting point for me (& hopefully the doctor) to determine whether it truly is a "muscle recovery" issue or perhaps some other illness, condition or combination of factors. And then I would branch out to other potential health issues in discussion with such doctor if necessary.

But I would discuss the above with the sports doctor & listen to any alternative tests/ideas as well, and I certainly wouldn't self-diagnose the workout symptom as a 100% muscle recovery problem up front.

Fair enough, sorry I was sarcastic. I will see if I can find a sports doctor and if an MRI is a possibility, it had honestly never even occurred to me that it was not fatigue and muscle recovery. What does muscle fatigue and a not yet recovered muscle feel like to you? Is it not an uncomfortable/painful, sometimes throbbing or tight sensation that increases when you have worked a muscle hard recently, especially if you try to work it again too soon that leaves you feeling weak, and gets more and more intense the more you overwork an already exhausted muscle group?

Plus if I had this issue since I was 15 when I was fat & in the 27 years since I had gotten more obese, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that my extra weight may on its own or have underlying related health issues that also may be a factor.

I rule it out because it is not significantly different regardless of my weight, which has varied quite a bit. If I had experienced a minor version of it at 15 and then it had become more and more of a problem with age I would agree with you that either my weight, age, or additional health problems were a contributing factor. But I have gone up and down in weight over the years, and levels of physical activity and cardiovascular endurance, and my muscle recovery has never shown any signs of any significant difference.

But that's me, I understand you have a very different approach towards your health & a very different attitude towards other opinions than me. I stand by everything I said in my past posts to you & about your attitude, if you feel they're personal attacks & stand by your responses to me, so be it. Again, I wish you luck on finding a solution to your problem but I'm done.

If you have never been an obese person, who is GENUINELY trying hard to be healthy and seeking help from a medical professional, you probably don't understand the level of bias inherently involved there. Trust me doctors are even less likely to believe my diet, no matter how accurate I am about it, than the people here. Like why would I lie to you when I am coming to you for help? Don't you think I would have tried everything I could on my end before I asked you to start stabbing me with needles and charging me to run every test you can think of if the answer really was "Well just eat less twinkies!" or at least been honest about it so we could maybe do something about it if I really did have some sort of food addiction? I mean heck several anti depressants work as appetite suppressants, and if I really did have a diet problem, wouldn't I be truthful about it so something like that was on the table as a solution?

The funniest was the doctor who was arguing with me that the reason I was fat in the first place was because I didn't eat enough calories and skipped meals, which I started doing in grade school because I didn't want to be teased about being fat. I repeated that back to him several times and asked him if he saw any sort of cause and effect flaw in that logic and he didn't, he just told me I need to eat more food and more often. I ignored that advice completely.

The less funny ones are the ones that just blame everything on you being fat. "So what's wrong?" "I have had a sinus infection for over a week now and I have been trying to get it to clear up with saline nasal rinses but I just cant seem to shake it" "Well did you know you are obese?" "Yes, I am quite aware, but I was also obese two weeks ago and I didn't have a sinus infection then..." "Well obesity is a risk factor for a lot of things.." "Is sinus infection one of them? Because I had never read that, do you have the scientific article handy? I would love to read that" "Ohh I am sure you can look it up".

The above is probably the biggest annoyance fat people who try hard have dealing with almost anything. Its why I get annoyed with stuff like this when I ask for a solution and the answer is "Well you are fat...." Yea, and when I wasn't nearly as fat I had the exact same issue. I know it's hard, but can we try to see beyond the fat just this once? It doesn't cause EVERY issue in the world. PARTICULARLY with issues like this where the solution to the issue may help me with my weight issue, and the issue occurred even when I was much thinner. It just feels like a merry go round of blame.

[keyboardworkout]

https://southpark.cc.com/video-clips...-park-genetics

[TolerantLactose]

You're clearly set in your thinking and I'm afraid there's little help until that changes. Good luck with your goals. I'm finished here.

[NoSuchNumber]

You're clearly set in your thinking and I'm afraid there's little help until that changes. Good luck with your goals. I'm finished here.

Lol you called me fat, which I already addmitted to and when I explained why I strongly believe it isnt my problem with recovery, then you accused me of lying about my diet, and I am the one who is set in my thinking? GTFO bigot, dont let the door slap you on the way out.

[SuicideGripMe]

OP, it seems like you need a specialist. You seem to have some issues (either psychological or physical) that are holding you back. If you are just trolling... cool waste of your time. If not, you shouldn't be on a site like this at this current time when you need some help from a proper medical expert.

No point for anyone to really comment in this thread anymore. Best of luck OP.

[NoSuchNumber]

OP, it seems like you need a specialist. You seem to have some issues (either psychological or physical) that are holding you back. If you are just trolling... cool waste of your time. If not, you shouldn't be on a site like this at this current time when you need some help from a proper medical expert.

No point for anyone to really comment in this thread anymore. Best of luck OP.

Honestly the MRI and finding out if I am really experiencing muscle recovery was an interesting idea, those are two I had never thought of before. I guess I had always assumed it was muscle exhaustion and recovery, because thats what mine always do when they are exhausted and in recovery, but I have never actually stopped to ask other people what it felt like when their muscles were exhausted, so that is something I will start asking around for.

Seeing a sports doctor is also worth looking into, and I will see if I can find one, although I dont hold out a ton of hope there, because I find it incredibly unlikely anyone who had a similar issue would have ever gotten involved in sports.

It would have been nice to have stayed on track instead of so many people telling me I am fat (gee thanks, I didnt know!), and how to diet and that I was lying about my diet, when I clearly stated multiple times that this happened at various weights, and that I wasnt here to address my weight, just my recovery issues.

But overall there was some good info mixed with all the fat phobia and shaming, so thanks for that. Good luck everyone.

[OldFartTom]

No.. this isn't just an anti fat moan.. read all first and only then be offended and tell me to go and whatever with the advice...

Lack of GPP (general physical preparedness) and elevated body fat will both hugely impact your body's ability to recover.

Also fat doesn't just sit there, it is active in the endocrine system, for example it can convert T into E when it gets above a certain %bf (that % is hugely subject to individual variation, just for fun let's say 20-25%). Probably these comments are no **** Sherlock and a statement of the problem not a solution. But if you are under medical supervision for your hormone levels then % body fat is something that your doc must advise you on, likely they are scared to do that because patients get offended and also patient compliance long term with lifestyle change is so depressingly poor docs don't even bother as 95% won't stick to it

I need to loose a few pounds about 10% of my bodyweight at the moment, I find it really really difficult. In my case after about age 40 my appetite increased way beyond any reasonable requirements. So I'm not going to tell you "just lose weight" or "it's easy just stop eating so much" or any of the spectacularly unhelpful advice. Some people due to genetics, circumstances or whatever will be prone to gain weight and find it 10x harder than others to lose it and keep it off. You have my sympathy there.

But the truth is, despite the fact it's going to be considerably more difficult for you than normal person, you *have* to reduce that bf% you have to increase your general fitness (which may be miserably exhausting at first until your energy levels eventually catch up). It is simple, but simple doesn't mean it's not going to be ball breakingly difficult. Sorry!

Good luck, keep on keeping on going. Speak again to your docs about this, and if they haven't already checked, ask them if thyroxin levels are relevant to your care

[OldFartTom]

Also.. re-reading your original post you have a weird view of exercise and recovery. I mean suppose you can do a certain number of pushups, let's say hypothetically... you can do 10 perfect form perfect depth pushups - why would you then attempt some number beyond you like 60 or whatever that's just stupid.
One perspective on exercise is that it breaks you down and the recovery is what makes you stronger. If you can do 10 perfect pushups then you should be doing 5 pushups 6 days a week. Only after you have done 5 like that for a couple of weeks should you increase to 6 and the not increase to 7 until you've been at 6 for a while. You do *less* than your maximum and gradually painfully very slowly increase over long time as you adapt. If you are poor at recovery you need to make that increase/progression even slower than other people's progression

You may have been dealt bad hand, but there's no need to play your hand stupidly. I think you need to go way back to basics and review programming and recovery

[NoSuchNumber]

No.. this isn't just an anti fat moan.. read all first and only then be offended and tell me to go and whatever with the advice...

Lack of GPP (general physical preparedness) and elevated body fat will both hugely impact your body's ability to recover.

Also fat doesn't just sit there, it is active in the endocrine system, for example it can convert T into E when it gets above a certain %bf (that % is hugely subject to individual variation, just for fun let's say 20-25%). Probably these comments are no **** Sherlock and a statement of the problem not a solution. But if you are under medical supervision for your hormone levels then % body fat is something that your doc must advise you on, likely they are scared to do that because patients get offended and also patient compliance long term with lifestyle change is so depressingly poor docs don't even bother as 95% won't stick to it

I need to loose a few pounds about 10% of my bodyweight at the moment, I find it really really difficult. In my case after about age 40 my appetite increased way beyond any reasonable requirements. So I'm not going to tell you "just lose weight" or "it's easy just stop eating so much" or any of the spectacularly unhelpful advice. Some people due to genetics, circumstances or whatever will be prone to gain weight and find it 10x harder than others to lose it and keep it off. You have my sympathy there.

But the truth is, despite the fact it's going to be considerably more difficult for you than normal person, you *have* to reduce that bf% you have to increase your general fitness (which may be miserably exhausting at first until your energy levels eventually catch up). It is simple, but simple doesn't mean it's not going to be ball breakingly difficult. Sorry!

Good luck, keep on keeping on going. Speak again to your docs about this, and if they haven't already checked, ask them if thyroxin levels are relevant to your care

And once AGAIN for the what 5th time? 6th time? 7th time? Exact same issue has been happening to me since I was 15, 90lbs lighter, and worked hard physically all the time. It does not significantly change if I am 238lbs or 385lbs. If it happens the same way when I am 15 260 and highly active, or 27 238 starving and sedentary, and 36 385 and semi active, I can say with a reasonable amount of certainty that it is not related to age, body size, or physical condition. Just because I am fat, does not mean I am dumb.

As far as my fat problem goes, thanks I am aware I am fat! I have known since I was about 5 because, and trust me here, EVERYONE TELLS YOU.

I love the assumption here that I have just never even considered putting less food in my mouth, like as a 42 year old man who has spent most of my life concerned with my health and trying to figure out what is going on, just reducing my caloric intake is a new and novel suggestion, and not something I tried for the first time around age 5 and for literally thousands of times since then.

If just slimming down my diet was all that was required to get me in good shape, I would have been there before age 6.

Trust me, my doctor and I speak VERY frankly on matters of health an obesity, and we are working on straightening out my hormones. I am aware of the issues with aromatase converting testosterone to estrogen. 90% of my life has been trying to loose weight, through changes in calories, through changes in macros, through changes in timing, through straight fasting, and through every form of exercise I could find.

I came here looking for assistance with loosing weight via exercise because I have a recovery issue and always have. People here have accused me of just being fat, lazy, and making excuses, which is amazing when you think about it.

I came here and made an account so I could.... What? Make excuses about why I am fat and lazy and dont want to work out? How much sense does that even make? I don't give a $hit what anyone here thinks about me. If I wanted to just be fat and lazy why would I even make an account and ask the question? I could have just laid on the counch shoveling fries and ice cream into my mouth as it seems like many of you think I do now.

I came here and asked because I was hopeful someone here had run into someone with a similar issue, or at least threw out some ideas I had not considered.

Let me clarify this one more time, I dont have any issue doing a workout, it is actually pretty fun. If I hit my home gym right this second I could lift like a beast and feel pretty good. My muscles would all feel a bit sore but also more activated, and that is a nice feeling. I could hit it again 2 weeks from now, and I would start off a little sore but could do the same workouts, probably slightly better because I had practiced them pretty recently, and I would be more sore, but feel good, another 2 weeks and I would go in more sore but still lift well, another 2 weeks even more sore and things would start to get harder, a couple more workouts and I would not be capable of nearly as many reps, soon after that I would not be able to complete even a single rep of the weight of the weight I used to lift easy.

So with a 2 week break between exercises, this might go on 3-4 months before I am simply too exhausted to lift, and not just lift, as I said I am actually a fairly physical guy, so everything is harder. Its actually not usually lifting itself that makes me stop, usually its something else, a friend needs help moving a couch I could have picked up and ran with 3 months ago but now I am so weak I cant even lift the end of, I can no longer move the big pots around my garden, I can't ride my bicycle anymore because I am so exhausted and weak, and I feel like this all the time, 24/7 so I stop lifting because I HATE how weak and helpless it makes me feel.

2-3 months of no lifting and am back to my old self and feel great again.

[keyboardworkout]

Congratulations on losing 25 lbs.

Only 150 lbs more to go.

[NoSuchNumber]

Also.. re-reading your original post you have a weird view of exercise and recovery. I mean suppose you can do a certain number of pushups, let's say hypothetically... you can do 10 perfect form perfect depth pushups - why would you then attempt some number beyond you like 60 or whatever that's just stupid.
One perspective on exercise is that it breaks you down and the recovery is what makes you stronger. If you can do 10 perfect pushups then you should be doing 5 pushups 6 days a week. Only after you have done 5 like that for a couple of weeks should you increase to 6 and the not increase to 7 until you've been at 6 for a while. You do *less* than your maximum and gradually painfully very slowly increase over long time as you adapt. If you are poor at recovery you need to make that increase/progression even slower than other people's progression

You may have been dealt bad hand, but there's no need to play your hand stupidly. I think you need to go way back to basics and review programming and recovery

I think you may be confused, or maybe I was unclear. When I was 15 I started doing 20 pushups 3 times a day because that felt like a nice reasonable amount. I could have pushed it to probably done 23-25 if I had had to. That part is fine.

The problem is I dont get stronger, I get weaker. After a while I wasnt capable of doing 20 any more, so I stepped back to 15, pretty soon I couldnt do the 3rd set so I stepped back to twice a day, then once a day, then 10 pushups because I could no longer do 15, then once every other day because I couldnt physically manage 10 a day.

During this time my full blooded brother who is 2 years younger than me also started doing the same thing started with 20 3 times a day. I dont know exactly what his progress was, but about the time I was no longer capable of doing more than 10 twice a week, I think he was up to hundreds a day.

This was the first time in my life it was made very, VERY clear to me that I have some problem with muscle recovery. I knew I wasnt just uncomfortable, or in pain, if you held a gun to my head I couldnt have done 12 pushups when previously 20 was relatively easy, but my full blooded little brother could whip off 80+ in a row with seeming ease. There was something going on wrong, and it wasnt with him, because his bodies reaction to exercise seems normal from everything I had ever read, there was just something wrong with me, but I didnt know what it was, and I still dont.

[NoSuchNumber]

Congratulations on losing 25 lbs.

Only 150 lbs more to go.

Thanks, but I can do my own math, and clearly better than you if you think 385 - 25 = 350, or if you think an optimal weight goal for me is 32 lbs BELOW my lean mass.

[keyboardworkout]

Thanks, but I can do my own math, and clearly better than you if you think 385 - 25 = 350, or if you think an optimal weight goal for me is 32 lbs BELOW my lean mass.

LOL! Fatties are so predictable.

I knew you would reply with a weight much higher than what you should weigh for your height.

LMAO at your lean mass calculation.

[NoSuchNumber]

LOL! Fatties are so predictable.

I knew you would reply with a weight much higher than what you should weigh for your height.

LMAO at your lean mass calculation.

I am going straight off the DEXA scan I have pictures of on my profile. You are welcome to look at it.

It was taken right before I started HRT when my Testosterone had been incredibly low, possiibly my whole life. I wouldnt be surprised if my lean mass was higher now.

[OldFartTom]

Maybe your recovery is worse than average, sorry to hear that but life is a **** at times, I wish I had great genetics I don't, learn to play the hand you have. Learn to deal with it and adjust your programming accordingly.

You don't get the simple after all this time? I don't care how many pushups your brother can do, that means little to *your* training. Base your training on your own progress, nobody else.

I also don't care if you could do 25 pushups 3 times a day and if that felt easy at first. When someone is overreaching their training (i.e. doing more than their long term recovery capacity), I've been here myself... too many times - it does feel fine in an individual workout but the fatigue builds over some time it sneaks up on you, from enthusiastic start to crash and burn, too beat tired, weird injuries etc, probably between 3 and 7 weeks depending what you're doing.

It's not important that you could do x pushups and feel fine, IDGAS, the fact that after some time it ground you down, that's why you need to do less and progress the amount more slowly. We can't spell it out any more clearly, go back to basics of programming.

I've changed my mind and I'm considering this a troll thread

[CommitmentRulz]

Thanks, but I can do my own math, and clearly better than you if you think 385 - 25 = 350, or if you think an optimal weight goal for me is 32 lbs BELOW my lean mass.

Forget the reading of 232 pounds lean mass. DEXA can still be wrong. But fat people often have some more muscle due to the fact that you are moving round a LOT of weight. However, it's not like if you get down to 232 pounds you are going to be at 0% body fat.

[NoSuchNumber]

Maybe your recovery is worse than average, sorry to hear that but life is a **** at times, I wish I had great genetics I don't, learn to play the hand you have. Learn to deal with it and adjust your programming accordingly.

You don't get the simple after all this time? I don't care how many pushups your brother can do, that means little to *your* training. Base your training on your own progress, nobody else.

I also don't care if you could do 25 pushups 3 times a day and if that felt easy at first. When someone is overreaching their training (i.e. doing more than their long term recovery capacity), I've been here myself... too many times - it does feel fine in an individual workout but the fatigue builds over some time it sneaks up on you, from enthusiastic start to crash and burn, too beat tired, weird injuries etc, probably between 3 and 7 weeks depending what you're doing.

It's not important that you could do x pushups and feel fine, IDGAS, the fact that after some time it ground you down, that's why you need to do less and progress the amount more slowly. We can't spell it out any more clearly, go back to basics of programming.

I've changed my mind and I'm considering this a troll thread

I assure you I am not trolling anyone.

My point here is not that my recovery time should be exactly the same as my brother's or anyone. Or that it takes twice as long as normal, or 3 times as long as normal. If a normal person could hit the gym 2-3 times a week, do a moderate workout, and keep up that pace slowly increasing in weight, and I could only do the same thing once a week, I would think it was mildly annoying, but I could live with that, and you never would have seen nor heard from me. Heck long before I asked here I had stepped down to massive de-loading and doing splits every other week after months of rest and my recovery still doesn't keep up with that.

That is the issue I am here to address, not that my recovery doesn't work, it does. Eventually, when I completely stop all lifting and take 2-3 months off I can come back and lift and feel great. Is that what I should do? Just set my timer and go do a full body workout every 2 months? Or a half every month?

Is there truly anyone here who find that answer acceptable if it was them?

[NoSuchNumber]

Forget the reading of 232 pounds lean mass. DEXA can still be wrong. But fat people often have some more muscle due to the fact that you are moving round a LOT of weight. However, it's not like if you get down to 232 pounds you are going to be at 0% body fat.

That is fair, and absolutely accurate. But its not like I am going to stop at exactly some imaginary number I set in my mind right now and then stop working to get below that. My ultimate goal is a body fat percentage that is in the 10-15 range, not a specific weight.

[Gandog]

Considering what you have said, id be looking at (and not to be rude) say lowering the weights to what say a female would do and more reps (say 3 sets of 20 off tiny weight). As well as a walk or jog a few times a week to get stamina up. Sure you could do more, but hopefully this will put your body into gear and limit recovery so in a 2-3 months of doing this you can push heavy with a lot less recovery. Everyone is different so may not work, but what id look at doing in what you have described. Hope it helps!

[OldFartTom]

... Eventually, when I completely stop all lifting and take 2-3 months off I can come back and lift and feel great. Is that what I should do? Just set my timer and go do a full body workout every 2 months? Or a half every month?

Not a single reply told you to do that, several people have told you the opposite, you don't listen...

You have given every excuse why a calorie controlled diet doesn't control bodyweight and made a long post on that. You will find that many posters here are surprisingly well read on this subject and understand factors like thyroxine (and some steroids) and mitochondrial energetics and their role in coupled/uncoupled respiration and how some people "burn" more energy than others and we can see through your BS. Get your full bloods and hormone panel done and get the results reviewed by a qualified doc with appropriate specialism/experience and unless there's some red-flag there stop with the excuses and reduce the calories. You are even on aromatase inhibitors to counteract the effects of the fat FFS. How can you possibly be on TRT and they didn't discover high E for some time? That means they weren't monitoring it! ,
Get all of that monitored and make sure your PSA is included too. Find someone competent to supervise your treatment learn how to listen to what people - especially the docs say, and stop coming here being obsessed with 100 reasons why nothing works, rather than looking at what tactics can work. You're wasting our time and your own.

[Twu8802]

“Start googling:

Adenovirus 36 DNA in Adipose Tissue of Patient with Unusual Visceral Obesity
Chances of fat person losing weight and keeping it off
Men's testosterone levels declined in last 20 years
Environmental impact of estrogens on human, animal and plant life
Stress, cortisol, and obesity
How metabolism slows down when you try to lose weight
Inherited metabolic disorders”

Wow there is no hope for you OP. You been blessed with all the rare genetic defects.

[jeffgraves]

Unfortunately this thread has turned into a train wreck. I'm sure I'll regret posting but I'll make an attempt at offering some helpful comments.

NoSuchNumber, you came here asking for "thoughts or advice" regarding your situation. Some people took the time to read your post and reply, for no benefit other than the good feeling that comes from helping someone. No one is suggesting you blindly follow advice you got from a discussion forum on the internet and clarifying your situation or a point you don't understand is great but arguing with people about their thoughts or advice does nothing to further the conversation or encourage others to be helpful.

Calories In - Energy Expended = Weight (Tissue) Gain holds true for everyone (and your squirrels), with 3 special cases that I can think of: 1) an inability to absorb the calories consumed (have to subtract the calories excreted), 2) short term changes in water or waste retention 3) energy expended drops below what is required to sustain life. Genetics, hormones, illness, etc can affect hunger, activity levels, base metabolic rate, ability to absorb calories, muscle vs fat gain/loss, etc but do not break the basic relationship between energy in, energy out and tissue (weight) gain/loss. No peer reviewed scientific paper will claim otherwise as anyone with a basic understanding of science (in any field) will identify it as a flawed experiment / conclusion.

Weight loss is likely to help (not fix) your recover, simply because your body isn't carrying the extra weight around during all your daily activities. I recently dropped 25 lbs (still close to 30% BF) and notice the difference in most things I do.

I wish you well in your journey to understanding your recovery issues and to improved fitness.

[NoSuchNumber]

At NO point did I ever say calories are not important and I should be able to stuff my face with whatever I want and still lose weight. What I did say in response to the MANY comments about calories being all that mattered to loose weight, was that having your hormones correct is important too.

And once AGAIN for the what 5th time? 6th time? 7th time? Exact same issue has been happening to me since I was 15, 90lbs lighter, and worked hard physically all the time. It does not significantly change if I am 238lbs or 385lbs. If it happens the same way when I am 15 260 and highly active, or 27 238 starving and sedentary, and 36 385 and semi active, I can say with a reasonable amount of certainty that it is not related to age, body size, or physical condition.

I did not come here for advice on weight loss, I did not ask for advice on weight loss, all of that advice has been completely unwanted and has nothing to do with this topic, as I feel that I have CLEARLY stated REPEATEDLY that this has not noticeably changed regardless of my body weight, age, physical condition, or current activity level.

I am here looking for ideas on why my muscle recovery is garbage, and always has been, because I have done a lot of reading on the subject, seen many doctors, including an endocrinologist, and none of them have known what to make of it. I would love several ideas to take to my doctor and discuss with them, that is the entire reason I am here.


For those that think I am just out of shape and exhausting myself too quickly, let me give you another example of this.

Prior to this I had been living in Houston and walking to work about 1.5 miles each way, working full time in a job that was standing, walking, or lifting paper boxes 100% of the time, literally did not have a chair. So not intensely physical, but certainly not sedentary.

About mid August 2009 at 29 years old and 280lbs (70lbs less than now) I moved to the Driftwood apartments on Galveston Island and started attending the fall semester at Galveston college. My girlfriend and I had only 1 car at the time, and I bought a bike specifically to commute to the college along the Galveston Seawall, which Google maps says is 2.8 miles each direction and it is very flat. I did this 5 days a week for 28 miles a week.

At first I was a little awkward, as I had not ridden a bike in about 10 years, and it took me around 20 minutes or so to get there, within the first couple weeks I became more and more comfortable and I think I got to where I was making it in close to 10 minutes, but definitely no more than 15 minutes. I continued riding my bike the entire rest of the fall semester, and about halfway through the spring semester, until about mid March, and just slowly loosing endurance and it getting harder and harder as time went on. At some point maybe around late January I was taking around 25 minutes to get there, and soon after I had to stop and walk my bike for a while each trip because my leg muscles were so exhausted and shaky I couldn't keep going riding, those required walking periods became sooner and longer, and I think once I was walking about 1/3rd of the distance I just gave up and parked my bike at home and walked to school the rest of the semester.

That is 7 months of riding a bicycle on mostly flat ground a relatively short distance 5 days a week, with weekends, and all school breaks and holidays off to rest, and still just progressively getting weaker and weaker. During this time I played with my protein, going from about 100 grams a day to 300 grams a day, at first from supplimenting whey protein powder, then switching to just eating a ton of chicken breast each day, neither made any noticeable difference.

I have never heard of anything even close to this level of long term muscle recovery problems from anyone else, so I assume it must be something rare, or wonky, but SOMEONE else must also have this problem, or at least some idea of what it might be, or things to try or test I can discuss with my doctor.

[Ladiessman217]

Just as food for thought for someone here that reads this and has actual bad recovery issues.

It's most likely liver related, if something is severely off about your Recovery.

Stuff like you do a deadlift session have 2 weeks muscle soreness, then do the same again.
You get the exact same muscle soreness, it last potentially even longer.
That's liver issues.
Low T has little to do with such big recovery problems.

[air2fakie]

I have never heard of anything even close to this level of long term muscle recovery problems from anyone else, so I assume it must be something rare, or wonky, but SOMEONE else must also have this problem, or at least some idea of what it might be, or things to try or test I can discuss with my doctor.

Dude you're never going to find any answers from doctors (or anyone else) until you stop being so defensive & telling everyone what the answer is & what the answer isn't. You have NOT been diagnosed with a muscle recovery issue. Muscles don't take several months to recover, that's why I suggested getting an MRI/ultrasound at different periods of time so your doctor (& you) can see what - if anything - is going on with your muscles. I would think you yourself would want to confirm via evidence that what you think is 100% the issue is actually the issue, and if there is anything else wrong with your muscles. At the very least, it might help you in a process of elimination.

The fact is you only have symptoms - whether from weightlifting, bike riding, etc. - whether you want to think of it as a "stamina", "endurance", "fatigue". That's just as likely to be some circulatory, respiratory, cardiac issue whether it be inflammation, disease, genetic condition or something else. And weight/bf (if you've been overweight your whole life even if that weight has fluctuated) & other issues could be contributory factors.

To keep decreeing that the issue is muscle recovery - and dismissing being overweight entirely as a potential contributor - is not the way to find an answer. If there is something that seems way out of the ordinary, there often are multiple factors contributing to it. While medical professionals can for sure be stubborn, no doctor is going to want to explore other alternatives when you keep insisting "it's a 100% muscle recovery issue, tell me why that is. and my weight has 0% to do with it".

Hope this helps for your future discussions with doctors. You will not find any definitive answer on this forum.

[bsc77]

A physician wouldn't be able to diagnose this issue once he/she went over basic bloodwork and diagnostic test results.

If I was in your shoes I would see a rheumatologist for a comprehensive blood panel. There are a ton of reasons why recovery has been difficult and a rheumatologist would be the specialist to diagnose you.

[Gandog]

Sorry about my last reply considering your last reply, genuinely was just trying to help, and not a specialist so not knowledgeable enough to reply again.

I hope you get the help your looking for, from one off the above posts or where ever else..

[LWW]

TLDNR: Even in my teens 60 pushups a day was more than my body could recover from without months of recovery. This has persisted all my life, what am I missing?



For reference I first discovered this when I was either 14 or 15, I started doing 20 pushups 3 times a day (60 total), morning noon and night. It was super easy at first and got harder and harder. By the end of the first week I couldn't make it to 20 anymore, so I did 15 3 times a day, another week and I was doing 15 twice a day and STRUGGLING, I don't remember how long it took, maybe a month or so, but at some point I think I was doing 10 twice a week and could barely lift my arms so I stopped. I think it was around 6-8 weeks before my arms felt semi normal again.

appreciated.

I see, for this example don’t train 3 times a day, eithier do another exercise a day or do 2-3 sets of 20 when at your strongest during the day. Only do 1 set of 25 sometime too.

That’s how I got better at push ups which I always struggled with push ups and most upper body work.