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  1. #61
    Registered User thomashenry's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    That, I also realize. Why not find out for yourself what you actually are and if there is anything that can continue after physical death?



    I do understand that you have a fervently held fear based belief with regard to the words in a book. Truth isn't in a book.

    The fear of the lord is the beginning of Wisdom

    I respectfully disagree with you Jesus said , I am the way, THE TRUTH and the life



    This is not meant to be condescending or argumentative, it is not as if I have not throughout my life utilized critical and objective thought and consumed numerous books that I have read seeking answers to life’s questions, to who I am and my purpose, the singular entity that has helped me and peel back the layers of the onion so to speak, that has revealed clear and concise answers that make sense to me is in fact the Bible, as perplexed as I am at times in trying to understand it and still till this very day, seek answers to questions I have!

    For me, the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus makes sense and gives me an authentic hope, in this life and eternal life, I have not seen any parallels to his life and wisdom, in all of history, the principles he not only
    Lived by and set forth IMO are unmatched, I’ve yet to see anyone who though may not believe in him, point to where anything he said or how he actually lived is wrong, I am by no stretch a water walker, I fail daily and no excuses or sounding holier than thou, I’ve come to know that with this living God I try and follow, failure is not final and that works for ME, there considerable more thought towards following him but this is sufficient for now in a nutshell in my belief
    Last edited by thomashenry; 06-24-2022 at 07:40 PM.
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  2. #62
    Registered User 7Seconds's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    Also, notice that he didn't include Loving v. Virginia in his list of decisions he wants to revisit. Wonder why??? /sarcasm
    Because Loving was based for the most part on the 14th amendment's equal protection clause. Roe and the others he mentioned were based on substantive due process rights. Such rights have long been a point of contention throughout US history. Minimum wage was once considered to be a violation of an employer's substantive due process right to freedom of contract, child labor laws were the same. In the decision (p. 6), Thomas points out that in Dredd Scott, the Court relied upon substantive due process to assert that "Congress was powerless to emancipate slaves brought into the federal territories." Only after constitutional amendment and war was this error rectified.

    His point is substantive due process is an end-around for lazy legislators and delegates the task of issuing policy to an unelected body, the judiciary. An inept and incompetent congress has been normalized where we as a people think it's ok for us to receive and lose rights primarily by court order, and that should not be acceptable. Roe's overturning can be rectified by passing a law in Congress codifying it, but every administration AND congress punted on that for the last 50 years.
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  3. #63
    Registered User bustasinclair's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    No worries man. You seem like a good dude. Life is too short but I am a 'big picture' guy and think for waaaay too long the govt (from a federal level) is getting scary. Even with the possible down sides that might come with it, I would always favor a push back to a more Framers view on distribution of power.

    I dont think there is any perfect answer. But I am willing to take good with bad.

    Peace! Have a good night man.
    Thank you for that. I do consider myself a generally good person. I'm not particularly smart and there's nothing about me that's anything but just about average.

    I do agree that federal government overreach is a real thing and we should all be aware of it. I just tend to root for the underdog and to me, this decision today was a direct hit on women's rights in general and it's a sad day even though it doesn't affect me one iota.

    I can get on board with being an originalist except for views on women's rights and slavery. The Framer's had those two ideologies wrong IMO.

    Agreed, no perfect answer. And for the record, for whatever reason, I don't respond well when I'm being condescended. Maybe in the future if you genuinely want to have civil discourse with me, perhaps tone down the condescension? Just a friendly request.

    Peace to you as well and enjoy your evening!
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  4. #64
    Registered User bustasinclair's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Because Loving was based for the most part on the 14th amendment's equal protection clause. Roe and the others he mentioned were based on substantive due process rights. Such rights have long been a point of contention throughout US history. Minimum wage was once considered to be a violation of an employer's substantive due process right to freedom of contract, child labor laws were the same. In the decision (p. 6), Thomas points out that in Dredd Scott, the Court relied upon substantive due process to assert that "Congress was powerless to emancipate slaves brought into the federal territories." Only after constitutional amendment and war was this error rectified.

    His point is substantive due process is an end-around for lazy legislators and delegates the task of issuing policy to an unelected body, the judiciary. An inept and incompetent congress has been normalized where we as a people think it's ok for us to receive and lose rights primarily by court order, and that should not be acceptable. Roe's overturning can be rectified by passing a law in Congress codifying it, but every administration AND congress punted on that for the last 50 years.
    Good points. I appreciate your viewpoint as I see you as truly non-partisan.
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  5. #65
    Nihilist Karl_Hungus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    I just tend to root for the underdog and to me, this decision today was a direct hit on women's rights in general and it's a sad day even though it doesn't affect me one iota.
    It isn't really a hit on women's rights because the decision didn't ban abortions, it simply allowed states to set their own laws. Again though, it is a complicated issue because even for states that restrict abortion, you could argue the converse -- that those states are providing a direct hit on the rights of the unborn.

    As I've mentioned in other threads, I don't really have a firm opinion on abortion either way because I can honestly see and appreciate the arguments on both sides of the issue.
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  6. #66
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus View Post
    It isn't really a hit on women's rights because the decision didn't ban abortions, it simply allowed states to set their own laws. Again though, it is a complicated issue because even for states that restrict abortion, you could argue the converse -- that those states are providing a direct hit on the rights of the unborn.

    As I've mentioned in other threads, I don't really have a firm opinion on abortion either way because I can honestly see and appreciate the arguments on both sides of the issue.
    This is true and the media has fabricated it up to frame it as abortions are banned and that it is a direct attack on women's rights to make it political and attempt to gain a political competitive edge on a very large voting block.

    Marco Rubio: Nothing has been banned – as the ruling simply reserved the regulatory power over abortion laws to the state legislatures, as prescribed by the 10th Amendment for those powers not explicitly enumerated in the Constitution.
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  7. #67
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post

    I just tend to root for the underdog
    The real
    underdog is a baby.
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  8. #68
    Finally accused of juicin Corbi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    We're talking about Supreme Court decisions. I wasn't aware that was related to federal spending??
    Planned Parenthood which is nothing but an abortion clinic..the silly talk of how they provide other services is just that. Anyways the Federal government via Medicaid funds that organization to the tune of over $500,000,000 per year.
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  9. #69
    Banned supramax's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by thomashenry View Post
    The fear of the lord is the beginning of Wisdom

    I respectfully disagree with you Jesus said , I am the way, THE TRUTH and the life



    This is not meant to be condescending or argumentative, it is not as if I have not throughout my life utilized critical and objective thought and consumed numerous books that I have read seeking answers to life’s questions, to who I am and my purpose, the singular entity that has helped me and peel back the layers of the onion so to speak, that has revealed clear and concise answers that make sense to me is in fact the Bible, as perplexed as I am at times in trying to understand it and still till this very day, seek answers to questions I have!

    For me, the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus makes sense and gives me an authentic hope, in this life and eternal life, I have not seen any parallels to his life and wisdom, in all of history, the principles he not only
    Lived by and set forth IMO are unmatched, I’ve yet to see anyone who though may not believe in him, point to where anything he said or how he actually lived is wrong, I am by no stretch a water walker, I fail daily and no excuses or sounding holier than thou, I’ve come to know that with this living God I try and follow, failure is not final and that works for ME, there considerable more thought towards following him but this is sufficient for now in a nutshell in my belief
    Well put and not condescending, at all. Everything you pointed out lies within the realm of thought: belief, hope, purpose, seeking, etc., etc. and the 'I' that 'utilizes critical and objective thought' is thought. There is only a body and the thinking process in a field of awareness, an intelligence that is totally obscured by thought.
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  10. #70
    Natural Wheelchair Mr. O marinevet63031's Avatar
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    I have my personal beliefs. What I don’t agree with is taking a persons right to get quality care from their doctor.
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  11. #71
    Registered User bustasinclair's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus View Post
    It isn't really a hit on women's rights because the decision didn't ban abortions, it simply allowed states to set their own laws. Again though, it is a complicated issue because even for states that restrict abortion, you could argue the converse -- that those states are providing a direct hit on the rights of the unborn.

    As I've mentioned in other threads, I don't really have a firm opinion on abortion either way because I can honestly see and appreciate the arguments on both sides of the issue.
    I don't expect you to have read all of my spewings on the topic, but I'm not advocating in the least for the casual abortion; I advocate for the abortions for the well-being of the mother and incest and rape. That's it!

    I realize it moves the decisions to the States, but my personal belief is that we need Federal protections from the more radicalized States. I mean, come on, imagine getting raped and dealing with that trauma only to realize a month or so later that you are impregnated. It's preposterous in my opinion to force a woman to carry to term under those circumstances.

    Anyway, people can believe what they want to believe. Just don't put me in the bucket of excusing vending machine style abortion access.
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  12. #72
    Registered User bustasinclair's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Corbi View Post
    Planned Parenthood which is nothing but an abortion clinic..the silly talk of how they provide other services is just that. Anyways the Federal government via Medicaid funds that organization to the tune of over $500,000,000 per year.
    Gotcha, I wasn't aware. I googled it, but didn't find a quick number so thanks for posting.

    I had a friend who had a breast cancer screening funded by them that caught it at stage 2 and likely saved her life, so they do other things.

    Good news for you and the others is that it looks like maybe you'll get your $4/year back since Roe has been overturned.
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  13. #73
    In Witness Protection mtpockets's Avatar
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    People are stepping up.. Good to see not all want women stripped of their rights.







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  14. #74
    Registered User Plateauplower's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post




    Nobody is stripped of ANY rights though. The “right” to kill babies still exists in places where people are protesting (Chicago, LA, etc etc)….In terms of corporations and insurance companies being in favor of abortions, that’s a great financial move. It’s far cheaper to pay for an abortion than a birth and medical care of a dependent.
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    I was late to George Carlin but wow that guy was right about so many topics!
    There is an unspoken thing, we are iron brothers and sisters, we are to support each other and...It is our duty to support our brothers and sisters in the iron game!
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    Originally Posted by Corbi View Post
    Planned Parenthood which is nothing but an abortion clinic..the silly talk of how they provide other services is just that. Anyways the Federal government via Medicaid funds that organization to the tune of over $500,000,000 per year.
    check out the list, i looked into this a few years back....www.plannedparenthood.org/get-care/our-services
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  17. #77
    In search of V-Taper ectoBgone's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Nobody is stripped of ANY rights though.
    They are in 22 states now, so that is precisely why a national chain like Dick's Sporting Goods would institute travel reimbursement policies like this.
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  18. #78
    In Witness Protection mtpockets's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Nobody is stripped of ANY rights though.
    Many will disagree with you, I am one.


    Tell that to the less fortunate woman who lives in a state that bans abortion and she can't afford to go elsewhere. A month ago she had a safety net of safe healthcare with regards to abortion. Now she has nothing. Basically her options are illegal abortion or have the baby. Color it any way you want. She lost that right to safe healthcare as far as abortion is concerned.

    It's the woman's body and her choice, she is the one who has to carry it for 9 months, a mans contribution to this baby took only a few minutes.

    I am not all about aborting babies..

    What I am about is it being the woman's decision in concert with her health care provide and family if applicable. That will be taken away in some states.

    A huge step backwards imo. I hope women take to the streets and revolt in a huge way.
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post

    I hope women take to the streets and revolt in a huge way.
    Really, the streets?

    They should break into the capital imo.

    Maybe Mad Donna can blow up the WH......
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Really, the streets?

    They should break into the capital imo.

    Maybe Mad Donna can blow up the WH......

    lol..

    I am all about peaceful protests
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    Many will disagree with you, I am one.


    Tell that to the less fortunate woman who lives in a state that bans abortion and she can't afford to go elsewhere. A month ago she had a safety net of safe healthcare with regards to abortion. Now she has nothing. Basically her options are illegal abortion or have the baby. Color it any way you want. She lost that right to safe healthcare as far as abortion is concerned.

    It's the woman's body and her choice, she is the one who has to carry it for 9 months, a mans contribution to this baby took only a few minutes.

    I am not all about aborting babies..

    What I am about is it being the woman's decision in concert with her health care provide and family if applicable. That will be taken away in some states.

    A huge step backwards imo. I hope women take to the streets and revolt in a huge way.
    Great points.
    I listened to a few channels discuss this topic last night and *availability with few resources* was the major theme.
    Getting from city A to city B when you realize at 6 weeks , oh chit pregnant, now wtf do i do?

    and then politically
    "'This is a losing issue': GOP campaign consultants panicked about upcoming midterms after Roe decision."
    There is an unspoken thing, we are iron brothers and sisters, we are to support each other and...It is our duty to support our brothers and sisters in the iron game!
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    Great points.
    I listened to a few channels discuss this topic last night and *availability with few resources* was the major theme.
    Getting from city A to city B when you realize at 6 weeks , oh chit pregnant, now wtf do i do?
    Yep, this is something most don't think about.. Very valid..


    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    and then politically
    "'This is a losing issue': GOP campaign consultants panicked about upcoming midterms after Roe decision."
    Trump set this up by stacking the Supreme Court, it may backfire somewhat though. The support coming from other states and corporations is surprising and probably something most didn't count on.
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    lol..

    I am all about peaceful protests

    Funny how Mad Donna didn’t get investigated with a threat to the WH yet we have people being investigated for just standing outside the capital.

    It’s so hard for certain people admit that the tables turn when the DC powers hate the guy who got elected.
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Funny how Mad Donna didn’t get investigated with a threat to the WH yet we have people being investigated for just standing outside the capital.

    It’s so hard for certain people admit that the tables turn when the DC powers hate the guy who got elected.
    The gyms are open today, i am leaving shortly, are you going today?
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Mad Donna

    Fun fact for ya Tater

    I performed a Madonna song on stage in front of several hundred people and got a great applause.


    I went to see a hypnotist show, he asked me and a bunch of others to be participants. He had me doing all kinds of Sh!t, one of those things was dancing around on stage spanking my own ass and singing Madonna songs. I don't recall doing any of it, but they videotaped it and I had a copy of it for years. The missus wore it out showing it to everyone she could.
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    Many will disagree with you, I am one.


    Tell that to the less fortunate woman who lives in a state that bans abortion and she can't afford to go elsewhere. A month ago she had a safety net of safe healthcare with regards to abortion. Now she has nothing. Basically her options are illegal abortion or have the baby. Color it any way you want. She lost that right to safe healthcare as far as abortion is concerned.

    It's the woman's body and her choice, she is the one who has to carry it for 9 months, a mans contribution to this baby took only a few minutes.

    I am not all about aborting babies..

    What I am about is it being the woman's decision in concert with her health care provide and family if applicable. That will be taken away in some states.

    A huge step backwards imo. I hope women take to the streets and revolt in a huge way.
    Abortion is not a constitutional right. I’ve not researched state specific laws, but I’m guessing that ALL states would allow abortions as a medical necessity, just banning them as a form of birth control. It would depend on the circumstances, but there are more cost effective ways for taxpayers to pay for birth control than abortions. I don’t care either way, I’d rather see more abortions than more kids born to stupid irresponsible parents. Democrats are in control of all branches of government, so they could simply pass a federal law rather than relying on the courts to dictate federal policy.
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    ... Trump set this up by stacking the Supreme Court...
    Bernie warned about that as he begged his supporters to not do a protest vote.
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    .




    Trump set this up by stacking the Supreme Court, it may backfire somewhat though. .
    the timing of this was just stupid. 6 months before elections. The left will exploit this decision to the highest degree. This is how you lose conservative pro choice votes.
    If you don't get what you want you didn't want it bad enough
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    Originally Posted by Plateauplower View Post
    Abortion is not a constitutional right. I’ve not researched state specific laws, but I’m guessing that ALL states would allow abortions as a medical necessity, just banning them as a form of birth control. It would depend on the circumstances, but there are more cost effective ways for taxpayers to pay for birth control than abortions. I don’t care either way, I’d rather see more abortions than more kids born to stupid irresponsible parents. Democrats are in control of all branches of government, so they could simply pass a federal law rather than relying on the courts to dictate federal policy.
    Who said anything about a constitutional right? I said in my initial post Women's rights, and yes, women are losing the right to choose to have an abortion

    Here's some copy and paste from Roe vs Wade, perhaps you will get where I am coming from..

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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    I am surprised the tinfoil hat crew hasn't surfaced saying it's just a distraction. I guess it's because they agree with this one
    Check out main misc R/P. There are folks there claiming just this - it's a distraction from inflation. But what can you expect from people with teenage-like minds.
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