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  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by thomashenry View Post
    You have your theories and beliefs I have mine
    What are you? What is there to continue?
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  2. #32
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    “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people”
    --10th Amendment

    This is the bottom line. Hence the celebration. It’s a win for states rights.
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  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people”
    --10th Amendment

    This is the bottom line. Hence the celebration.
    It's funny that people who celebrate a freedom also celebrate a restriction of freedom.
    Last edited by supramax; 06-24-2022 at 01:39 PM. Reason: sp.
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  4. #34
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people”
    --10th Amendment

    This is the bottom line. Hence the celebration. It’s a win for states rights.
    True 18 immediately outlawed it see the link.......

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-vs-Wade.html
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  5. #35
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    What in the holy fuk is going on? I feel like we've fallen into an alternative universe. This a$$hole in a robe is just pissed off his wife got caught with her hand in the cookie jar.
    It is actually a win for protecting the individual liberties in this counrty. Roe v Wade was bad law. It was legislating from the bench. There is no 'constitutional' right to an abortion. Accepting this ruling, when it ultimately should be a state by state issue, sets us up for dangerous things. Lets say the court was extremes left and wanted to pass a bill where minor children could decided on their own to undergo life altering gender 'treatments' and parents could not have a say. Just not a great thing to just start altering the balance of power and where it comes from. Regardless if you agree w/ abortion or not, it should not be decided by the high court on a federal level.

    As for birth control etc, again, you forget that these previous decisions FORCE the govt to PAY for these items. I dont think anyone is really saying that birth control should be illegal, But should the govt or employers be force to pay for it?

    Similar issues with Obama care. We used to get great discounts on our health insurance. I have had to provide my own for years since I was always self employed. But good health discounts and after we were done having kids we took pregnancy coverage off. When Obama care came in we could no long 'opt out' of covering pregnancy or having provisions for insurance paid contraceptive. Even though I got a vasectomy. We still have to pay for that coverage.

    Instead of being reactionary and saying Oh sh!t, look at the actual reasoning behind it rather than the headline put out by CNN or MSNBC.
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  6. #36
    Registered User thomashenry's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    What are you? What is there to continue?
    I was politely disagreeing, pretty simple
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    Originally Posted by thomashenry View Post
    I was politely disagreeing, pretty simple
    I understand that. I was inviting you to investigate.
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  8. #38
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    It is actually a win for protecting the individual liberties in this counrty. Roe v Wade was bad law. It was legislating from the bench. There is no 'constitutional' right to an abortion. Accepting this ruling, when it ultimately should be a state by state issue, sets us up for dangerous things. Lets say the court was extremes left and wanted to pass a bill where minor children could decided on their own to undergo life altering gender 'treatments' and parents could not have a say. Just not a great thing to just start altering the balance of power and where it comes from. Regardless if you agree w/ abortion or not, it should not be decided by the high court on a federal level.

    As for birth control etc, again, you forget that these previous decisions FORCE the govt to PAY for these items. I dont think anyone is really saying that birth control should be illegal, But should the govt or employers be force to pay for it?

    Similar issues with Obama care. We used to get great discounts on our health insurance. I have had to provide my own for years since I was always self employed. But good health discounts and after we were done having kids we took pregnancy coverage off. When Obama care came in we could no long 'opt out' of covering pregnancy or having provisions for insurance paid contraceptive. Even though I got a vasectomy. We still have to pay for that coverage.

    Instead of being reactionary and saying Oh sh!t, look at the actual reasoning behind it rather than the headline put out by CNN or MSNBC.
    I just recall hearing all of the R(SC)nominees saying that it is "settled law" so when the leak came out a few months ago stating that the draft mentioned overturning it.... you can imagine all the feelings(politicians) of being duped, played, bamboozled, on this subject.
    This has been in the works for at least 30 years by the religious right, because i first heard it mentioned in college as a hot button issue(Political Science).
    LOL, I was naive to think, they won't fk with that old law, well guess what.....
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  9. #39
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    Planned Parenthood of Greater New York says it will increase services by 20%.

    "We are committed to ensuring equitable access to all New Yorkers and people across the country in states hostile toward health care — and abortion is health care.”
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  10. #40
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    Planned Parenthood of Greater New York says it will increase services by 20%.

    "We are committed to ensuring equitable access to all New Yorkers and people across the country in states hostile toward health care — and abortion is health care.”
    imagine planning a trip to go do this.
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  11. #41
    Registered User bustasinclair's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    It is actually a win for protecting the individual liberties in this counrty. Roe v Wade was bad law. It was legislating from the bench. There is no 'constitutional' right to an abortion. Accepting this ruling, when it ultimately should be a state by state issue, sets us up for dangerous things. Lets say the court was extremes left and wanted to pass a bill where minor children could decided on their own to undergo life altering gender 'treatments' and parents could not have a say. Just not a great thing to just start altering the balance of power and where it comes from. Regardless if you agree w/ abortion or not, it should not be decided by the high court on a federal level.
    I disagree. But I won't waste my explanation on someone who doesn't care.

    As for birth control etc, again, you forget that these previous decisions FORCE the govt to PAY for these items. I dont think anyone is really saying that birth control should be illegal, But should the govt or employers be force to pay for it?
    I'll take subsidization of contraception any day to keep the number of unwanted children and pregnancies down.

    Similar issues with Obama care. We used to get great discounts on our health insurance. I have had to provide my own for years since I was always self employed. But good health discounts and after we were done having kids we took pregnancy coverage off. When Obama care came in we could no long 'opt out' of covering pregnancy or having provisions for insurance paid contraceptive. Even though I got a vasectomy. We still have to pay for that coverage.
    Healthcare is and always has been a disaster in this Country. Obama Care didn't make anything better, I agree.

    Instead of being reactionary and saying Oh sh!t, look at the actual reasoning behind it rather than the headline put out by CNN or MSNBC.
    Thanks for being a condescending d!ck. I pulled the headline from checking my e-mail on Yahoo. GFY
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  12. #42
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    Originally Posted by PhDPepper1111 View Post
    There are strong arguments on both sides for sure.... There have always been some exceptions for the life of the mother, and I do hope that continues, but I struggle to see any logic that says an unborn child is not a child. Ethical issues, yes, huge struggles for poverty and for autonomy of women, but I do come down on the side of a life is a life. When does it begin? I'm pretty certain - before birth. There may be some leeway - and debate - between conception and birth (often considered at the point of 'viability') but these remain challenging and complex.
    ^^Agreed, and honestly, this is the reason why these discussions never go anywhere. Both sides talk past each other and rely on simplistic slogans focusing exclusively on the rights of one side or the other. The reality is that it is a complex and nuanced issue that involves defining the intersection of those rights and how we define life itself. It doesn't lend itself well to the standard brain-dead political binary that makes up most of these discussions.
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  13. #43
    Train hard play harder Tommy W.'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    I disagree. But I won't waste my explanation on someone who doesn't care.



    I'll take subsidization of contraception any day to keep the number of unwanted children and pregnancies down.



    Healthcare is and always has been a disaster in this Country. Obama Care didn't make anything better, I agree.



    Thanks for being a condescending d!ck. I pulled the headline from checking my e-mail on Yahoo. GFY
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    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    I just recall hearing all of the R(SC)nominees saying that it is "settled law" so when the leak came out a few months ago stating that the draft mentioned overturning it.... you can imagine all the feelings(politicians) of being duped, played, bamboozled, on this subject.
    This has been in the works for at least 30 years by the religious right, because i first heard it mentioned in college as a hot button issue(Political Science).
    LOL, I was naive to think, they won't fk with that old law, well guess what.....
    Yes, but so were things like title IX protections, which just keep expanding by definition. Biden admin now adding 'gender identity' to list of protections. Whether I agree or disagree, I dont think trying to hold to a more constitutional frame work is a 'bad' thing.

    Personally abortion rights are tricky. But in first trimester, I would be OK with women having them. Although I personally disagree in some ways, I can also see the compromise. The trouble is, states like NY pushing late term abortions, and I have seen the dead babies which dr's excute and then sell the corpses into medical research. I think there are terrible wrongs being committed.

    I think a win for states rights is good one. (regardless of the topic). People forget what this country is supposed to look like. We are not supposed to run by executive orders...etc. Focusing light on the real issues (and the 'real' issue to me is abuse of law and assumptions of power where they did not exist) is what could be of benefit from this. Sadly most people wont get past the headlines. If they were pro choice, this is 'bad', if they were pro life, this is 'good' and that is really missing the point.
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  15. #45
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Yes, but so were things like title IX protections, which just keep expanding by definition. Biden admin now adding 'gender identity' to list of protections. Whether I agree or disagree, I dont think trying to hold to a more constitutional frame work is a 'bad' thing.

    Personally abortion rights are tricky. But in first trimester, I would be OK with women having them. Although I personally disagree in some ways, I can also see the compromise. The trouble is, states like NY pushing late term abortions, and I have seen the dead babies which dr's excute and then sell the corpses into medical research. I think there are terrible wrongs being committed.

    I think a win for states rights is good one. (regardless of the topic). People forget what this country is supposed to look like. We are not supposed to run by executive orders...etc. Focusing light on the real issues (and the 'real' issue to me is abuse of law and assumptions of power where they did not exist) is what could be of benefit from this. Sadly most people wont get past the headlines. If they were pro choice, this is 'bad', if they were pro life, this is 'good' and that is really missing the point.
    we agree on many points here, it sounds like you are a strict interpretation of the constitution guy?
    I know no (D) that is saying "abortions yay..... lets go out and do that for chits and giggles, good times", but there are circumstances that require gray area thinking.
    Sooo it looks like 50 year old milfs are going to get very popular suddenly, lol
    Last edited by x-trainer ben; 06-25-2022 at 07:08 AM.
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  16. #46
    Train hard play harder Tommy W.'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    Sooo tt looks like 50 year old milfs are going to get very popular suddenly, lol
    Along with wearing 2 condoms.
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  17. #47
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    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post


    Thanks for being a condescending d!ck. I pulled the headline from checking my e-mail on Yahoo. GFY
    So @busta, you dont think your response below is reactionary? You are not even looking or attempting to understand the the reasoning behind perhaps looking at birth control rulings. You just respond like below. And you call me a condescending dik? Oh well. I thought we could have meaningful


    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    What in the holy fuk is going on? I feel like we've fallen into an alternative universe. This a$$hole in a robe is just pissed off his wife got caught with her hand in the cookie jar.

    My opinion is anytime we are giving the fed govt powers that are not dictated by the constitution, it is not a great thing. I disagree with the idea of a 'living constitution'. It amazes me that the founders of this country understood the basics of humanity so well and were able to predict the past failings of other govt structures. We are still the same humans that we were 200+ years ago, and even 2000 years ago. Read the I Ching. Will blow your mind to see writing from 2000+ years ago which still apply today. We are still human with all our failings. I dont think we need to adjust to 'suit the times' because nothing has changed from our motivations. Evil people will always try to take away power and privilege to exploit for their own. The free man (and woman) is the protection from this. The more we give away, the more we risk losing everything.

    We lost the most freedoms in one swoop by a repub. GW Bush and the patriot act was the single largest loss of civil liberties we ever had in this country and people cheered for it. Nothing 'patriotic' about it.

    So specifically @busta, if you only want to react to headlines and you wont do any work to really understand the issues, yes, I will dismiss you and really I have no respect for people like that. They want to whine, bi!ch and moan, but dont even care to realize what they are voting for.

    I was (trying) to have meaningful conversation, and yes I do care. But maybe that makes me different. I dont type with to make myself feel good. I want to understand others and perhaps encourage them to look at what lies behind the powers that all try to control use. When you do vote, to really understand what you are voting for. It is very important and should be treated as such. But if you dont give a fuk, there is nothing I can do. I tried.
    Last edited by induced_drag; 06-24-2022 at 02:53 PM.
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  19. #49
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    we agree on many points here, it sounds like you are a strict interpretation of the constitution guy?
    I know no (D) that is saying "abortions yay..... lets go out and do that for chits and giggles, good times", but there are circumstances that require gray area thinking.
    Sooo tt looks like 50 year old milfs are going to get very popular suddenly, lol
    I agree completely. It is really hard to think of, but I said I would support first trimester access even though it is not what I personally feel, I think it might be the best compromise.

    The abortion thing is big business. Dont let the 'issues' fool you. There are people making millions and billions out of providing services, and harvesting tissues. It goes way beyond advocating for womens healthcare. That is what I dont like and no one will talk honestly about that aspect. Nor will anyone mention that the minority population is kept the minority in this manner.
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    I understand that. I was inviting you to investigate.

    It`s actually quite simple, faith

    John 3:16 For God so loved the World, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him, shall Never Perish, but have everlasting Life

    John 14:2 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

    Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord
    Last edited by thomashenry; 06-27-2022 at 08:10 AM.
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    if you only want to react to headlines and you wont do any work to really understand the issues
    This is about as condescending as it gets ^^^^ assuming I don't know what I'm talking about or don't understand real life issues because I don't agree with you......GFY.
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    This whole thing is just fuc*in stupid. With all the division in the country this was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Really SC? Is this something that really need to be addressed right now? Were you just bored and thought “ Hey let’s do something that’ll cause even MORE unrest?”
    If you don't get what you want you didn't want it bad enough
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    I don’t understand how anyone could be so hung up on theRoe Wade decision. If you want to murder a baby just go to any baby murder establishment in democrat area and have at it. The blue states /cities like Chicago will get some badly needed income from “abortion tourists” since many of the major companies are leaving due to the crime rates (more abortions probably help here too)…If someone doesn’t want to murder babies then they won’t be forced to. I’m pro choice, it doesn’t affect me either way. Planned parenthood was/is heavily influenced by people involved in Eugenics, so there was some racial motivation in making abortions easily accessible for minority populations, which seems counterintuitive to the people advocating for them, so that’s kind of ironic.
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    What in the holy fuk is going on? I feel like we've fallen into an alternative universe. This a$$hole in a robe is just pissed off his wife got caught with her hand in the cookie jar.

    It’s one concurrence that no other justice signed on to. Thomas has had issues with substantive due process for decades, and has spent decades writing radical concurring dissents like this one that no other justice joined. He believes any and all such rights, if they exist, are derived from the privileges and immunities clause. No one ever joins him in these opinions. It would have been more surprising to not see it here. He's doing the same thing he's always done: going farther than even the other conservatives are willing to go.
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    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    This is about as condescending as it gets ^^^^ assuming I don't know what I'm talking about or don't understand real life issues because I don't agree with you......GFY.
    OK, then if you do actually understand the issues and still feel the same, we are so far apart it is hard to imagine finding much we can agree on. I just never understood people who actually want Washington to have more control over their lives and who want more federal spending and higher taxes to support that spending.

    With respect, I read your response (which seemed like a highly emotional one, tying his homelife into the decision). There did not seem to be any substantive reasoning to the disagreement on policy, but rather personal attacks. When I disagree on political issues, I make it a point to try to argue the actual topics vs getting personal. Whether it be about the actual politician or who I am arguing with.

    I should know better and trying to have an actual meaningful discussion has proven pointless over and over. But I still do try and I still do learn things. There are so many things I dont yet know and understand, but I do make an effort.
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    Bout time!! To the haters: how many of you would trade places with one of the 63 million who were aborted?
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    Guys, it’s all in the best interest to just not have any kids these.

    Having kids these days means having to deal with your kid getting suspended for malicious gender something..........

    So take that one, you are most likely saying FU a hole, well now you know how we feel with gubmit wanting to be our mom and dad.

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    Originally Posted by thomashenry View Post
    It`s actually quite simple, faith
    That, I also realize. Why not find out for yourself what you actually are and if there is anything that can continue after physical death?

    Originally Posted by thomashenry View Post
    John 14:6 For God so loved the World, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him, shall Never Perish, but have everlasting Life

    John 14:2 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

    Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord
    I do understand that you have a fervently held fear based belief with regard to the words in a book. Truth isn't in a book.
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    Registered User bustasinclair's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    OK, then if you do actually understand the issues and still feel the same, we are so far apart it is hard to imagine finding much we can agree on. I just never understood people who actually want Washington to have more control over their lives and who want more federal spending and higher taxes to support that spending.
    We're talking about Supreme Court decisions. I wasn't aware that was related to federal spending??

    With respect, I read your response (which seemed like a highly emotional one, tying his homelife into the decision). There did not seem to be any substantive reasoning to the disagreement on policy, but rather personal attacks. When I disagree on political issues, I make it a point to try to argue the actual topics vs getting personal. Whether it be about the actual politician or who I am arguing with.
    You will not agree with me, but...

    I feel like Clarence Thomas is picking and choosing the Supreme Court decisions he wants to revisit out of political motivation. He wants to ignore stare decisis for whatever reason and to me that is the ultimate betrayal of American Jurisprudence, but whatever. Also, notice that he didn't include Loving v. Virginia in his list of decisions he wants to revisit. Wonder why??? /sarcasm

    I should know better and trying to have an actual meaningful discussion has proven pointless over and over. But I still do try and I still do learn things. There are so many things I dont yet know and understand, but I do make an effort.
    I don't know why you do it. I already know that you and I will never agree...
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    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post

    I don't know why you do it. I already know that you and I will never agree...
    No worries man. You seem like a good dude. Life is too short but I am a 'big picture' guy and think for waaaay too long the govt (from a federal level) is getting scary. Even with the possible down sides that might come with it, I would always favor a push back to a more Framers view on distribution of power.

    I dont think there is any perfect answer. But I am willing to take good with bad.

    Peace! Have a good night man.
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