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  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    Australia also has the guns and they decided to give them up. Gun control laws are a joke in US. It’s just the fact
    The laws in place are adequate, they just aren't enforced. That's the issue. A law with no teeth is useless.

    Take gun ownership. If you are a recreational drug user, convicted felon, or were ever involuntarily committed, you are exempt from gun ownership in many states. So they will either lie on the form or have other people buy a gun for them (straw purchase) which is illegal.

    But they are hardly ever charged.

    In 2017, there was approximately 112,000 fraudulent firearms applications. The ATF opened investigations into about 10% of them.

    Guess how many they charged?

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  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    Look at stats comparing mass shootings around the world. Literally Google any data visualization. It’s not even worth arguing and it’s pointless. Crazy people are everywhere, school schoolings is US thing
    i believe when most people think of mass shootings, they think about incidents like this, or when a shooter goes to the mall and randomly starts shooting people.

    my question is, when these statistics are calculated, is this the criteria used to qualify as a mass shooting? or are other shootings counted as well. for examples a gang shooting, where 5 or 6 people are shot?

    so basically my question actually is, what is the criteria for a shooting to be considered a mass shooting?

    i ask because i think that makes a difference when we are trying to tackle this issue. hypothetically, if we could snap our fingers and make all mass gang shootings go away, how would that affect these statistics you are looking at?

    i don't know the answers to my questions, i am legit asking. i think you are making a leap though because: you see that mass shootings are worse in the states + we have the worst gun control laws(your opinion, but i'm rolling with it for this discussion), therefore it must be the guns. i just think there is more nuance to it than there. there are more differences between this country and all other countries than just those 2 things.
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  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    Nah, I am not enlightening anyone.
    Actually, with this answer, you just did.
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  4. #34
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  5. #35
    Formerly grouchyjarhead GrouchyUSMC's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by unity View Post
    i believe when most people think of mass shootings, they think about incidents like this, or when a shooter goes to the mall and randomly starts shooting people.

    my question is, when these statistics are calculated, is this the criteria used to qualify as a mass shooting? or are other shootings counted as well. for examples a gang shooting, where 5 or 6 people are shot?

    so basically my question actually is, what is the criteria for a shooting to be considered a mass shooting?

    i ask because i think that makes a difference when we are trying to tackle this issue. hypothetically, if we could snap our fingers and make all mass gang shootings go away, how would that affect these statistics you are looking at?

    i don't know the answers to my questions, i am legit asking. i think you are making a leap though because: you see that mass shootings are worse in the states + we have the worst gun control laws(your opinion, but i'm rolling with it for this discussion), therefore it must be the guns. i just think there is more nuance to it than there. there are more differences between this country and all other countries than just those 2 things.
    That's the key right there. Different countries and organizations have different definitions of it, and many countries don't track it.

    Take Syria. Google "Syria mass shooting" and you get three results - one from 1979, one from 2008, and one from 2018. Only three mass shootings apparently, right? But the Syrian Civil War has been going on for over 11 years now, with over 600,000 dead since March of this year.

    Apparently these mass shootings don't also take into account when their military commits these against their own people, e.g. when the Syrian military slaughtered 288 civilians in the Tadamon District in 2013.
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  6. #36
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    How many shootings in the last 20 years and schools haven’t learned to provide security to keep kids safe?

    Security will not prevent future shootings, but it will deter and also reduce the damage otherwise.

    Schools themselves bear a lot of responsibility for not providing security in the wake of our history. Federal and State money is there.

    It is futile to talk guns. The same political party that blames all of these shootings only on guns is the same party that supports defunding the police and most of their cities are deep with crime and violence, yet the citizens who vote for them seem to not even fukking notice, don't talk about it or admit something is wrong and turn their backs. But, they notice school shootings.

    I am not criticizing those who criticize guns. I just think that the conversation needs to get real or nothing will change.
    Last edited by Mark1T; 05-25-2022 at 04:49 AM.
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  7. #37
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    25 years ago this happened and you think maybe selling body armor to 18 year olds would be considered a bad idea? maybe?
    Can anyone enlighten me as to when body armor became so mainstream and normal for purchase?

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  8. #38
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    What can we do at this point? Can everyone drop the political posturing and come together to do something? Anything? The issue can't even be discussed w/o many trying to defend a position or blame the opposite political party. Doing nothing is not an option anymore. Something needs to change but knowing us we will forget about it until the next one and feel good about doing our part on social media saying "thoughts and prayers".

    Fuk!
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  9. #39
    Formerly grouchyjarhead GrouchyUSMC's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NotJtbny View Post
    What can we do at this point? Can everyone drop the political posturing and come together to do something? Anything? The issue can't even be discussed w/o many trying to defend a position or blame the opposite political party. Doing nothing is not an option anymore. Something needs to change but knowing us we will forget about it until the next one and feel good about doing our part on social media saying "thoughts and prayers".

    Fuk!
    When's the last time you heard of school children being killed in a fire?

    Not ever recently that I can think of. Because they have sprinklers, fire alarms, and do frequent fire drills. Why can't we do the same to protect our children from these kinds of incidents?
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  10. #40
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    Originally Posted by GrouchyUSMC View Post
    When's the last time you heard of school children being killed in a fire?

    Not ever recently that I can think of. Because they have sprinklers, fire alarms, and do frequent fire drills. Why can't we do the same to protect our children from these kinds of incidents?
    Ok. Many schools have armed police stationed there. My kids do lockdown drills and have since kindergarten. Did you have lockdown drills in school? I know I didn't and I'm 47 and attended 3 different elementary schools in 3 different states.

    Topps had an armed security guard. That worked out well.

    I don't have the answers. I wish I did. I just know that doing nothing is what we will do and we will have another incident, and another, and another. It's maddening. It's sad. But thoughts and prayers, ya'll.

    I've been taking my kids to school everyday of their lives. Today was by far the toughest day I've had dropping them off. I don't even know how to explain this to them.
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  11. #41
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    Fourteen students and a teacher were killed during a shooting at a Texas elementary school Tuesday afternoon, according to Texas Gov. Greg Abbott.

    Speaking in Abilene, Abbott said the shooter, an 18-year-old from Uvalde, is dead.



    When does this sh!t end? How friggin sad.
    When mentally ill people don't have access to weapons, I think. All I know for sure is that a lot of people are crying.
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  12. #42
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    If it was one of my children, I will not be able to live after. No way. Mass school shootings only happen in America at the rate that they happen. But nothing will ever change because ma guns.


    Here we go, DEva is an Obama Parrot.

    Mass murder happens without a gun, trucks are used bombs and blades in other countries and here too.

    YOu still wanna live in Russia.
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    Originally Posted by pvsampson View Post
    Lol. So you actually believe that your government avoids implementing health and safety mandates because of armed population?
    Good luck with taking on your armed forces. fuc$ing wannabe gravy seal.
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  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by NotJtbny View Post
    Ok. Many schools have armed police stationed there. My kids do lockdown drills and have since kindergarten. Did you have lockdown drills in school? I know I didn't and I'm 47 and attended 3 different elementary schools in 3 different states.

    Topps had an armed security guard. That worked out well.

    I don't have the answers. I wish I did. I just know that doing nothing is what we will do and we will have another incident, and another, and another. It's maddening. It's sad. But thoughts and prayers, ya'll.

    I've been taking my kids to school everyday of their lives. Today was by far the toughest day I've had dropping them off. I don't even know how to explain this to them.
    Wake up, your gambit controlled schools are nothing more than a tax thieft funnel for politicians.

    Complain about it all you want but they won’t listen to you.

    When you stop sending kids to a private school because of fear, they do something because they can’t run without your money, but gubmit continues to run thier schools because they continue to “take” all our money.

    I made a post yesterday before this shooting that in my school the students used work programs or got GED cause it was such a chit hole to get the fuk out.
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    Originally Posted by NotJtbny View Post
    What can we do at this point? Can everyone drop the political posturing and come together to do something? Anything? The issue can't even be discussed w/o many trying to defend a position or blame the opposite political party. Doing nothing is not an option anymore. Something needs to change but knowing us we will forget about it until the next one and feel good about doing our part on social media saying "thoughts and prayers".

    Fuk!
    This is essentially what I am also saying and I have empathy for parents like you, John. I think the "thoughts and prayers" line is over-used because (not you) the media likes to use it to tell its audience the GOP doesn't care and won't do anything about the shootings and that the shootings are the GOP's fault. Given that, I disagree with the assessment.

    Because, both parties should work together to implement what we already have to reduce (not totally prevent) shootings by utilizing the Federal and State funds that are there to fund and train schools to be better prepared. Guards or teachers d not have to be armed to make an impact. Being more conscious of entry ways being locked while classes are in being held, classrooms locked, bullet-proof classroom doors, cams at each entry way, teaching students to not be afraid of anonymously reporting someone who might be suspicious or who they know who is a high risk.

    Nothing will prevent these shootings, but schools can do better.

    This particular shooting was near the border and tons of guns come from Mexico undetected. No gun control can help that. The only gun control I would support is to raise the age for purchase any firearm to 21, across the board.
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Wake up, your gambit controlled schools are nothing more than a tax thieft funnel for politicians.

    Complain about it all you want but they won’t listen to you.

    When you stop sending kids to a private school because of fear, they do something because they can’t run without your money, but gubmit continues to run thier schools because they continue to “take” all our money.

    I made a post yesterday before this shooting that in my school the students used work programs or got GED cause it was such a chit hole to get the fuk out.
    None of this nonsense has anything to do w/this incident. Stop trying to be the Dollar Store version of NW.

    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    This is essentially what I am also saying and I have empathy for parents like you, John. I think the "thoughts and prayers" line is over-used because (not you) the media likes to use it to tell its audience the GOP doesn't care and won't do anything about the shootings and that the shootings are the GOP's fault. Given that, I disagree with the assessment.
    I never equate "thoughts and prayers" to a party. It's just an empty phrase used to make the person saying it feel better. I've been a Republican most of my adult life and am not religious at all. My wife, a democrat, is. Didn't mean it to come out as a knock on a political party though. My bad. I don't think there is a clear answer here.

    Because, both parties should work together to implement what we already have to reduce (not totally prevent) shootings by utilizing the Federal and State funds that are there to fund and train schools to be better prepared. Guards or teachers d not have to be armed to make an impact. Being more conscious of entry ways being locked while classes are in being held, classrooms locked, bullet-proof classroom doors, cams at each entry way, teaching students to not be afraid of anonymously reporting someone who might be suspicious or who they know who is a high risk.
    Both of my kids schools are essentially locked down. My middle schooler has a Sherriff there all day. My other kids elementary school doesn't but there are no access points that aren't locked at monitored via camera. That said the kids play outside on the playground during recess. Anyone could walk right up to them as there aren't barriers to entry.

    Nothing will prevent these shootings, but schools can do better.
    yes, we've shown this to be true over and over again.

    This particular shooting was near the border and tons of guns come from Mexico undetected. No gun control can help that. The only gun control I would support is to raise the age for purchase any firearm to 21, across the board.
    I live in a state that has overly strict gun laws. Want to take a stab at where many of the guns come from here? Other states that don't. That's just a fact. Raising the age is something but you and I know if someone wants a gun they can get a gun 18 or 70. The Buffalo shooter was able to despite our laws that should have stopped him. IDK, maybe start w/ banning private gun sales? Have to sell using an authorized firearm dealer? Sounds reasonable to me. The link below shows the private party laws for each state. I'm sure someone can come up w/an argument as to why this is not a good idea though.

    https://www.findlaw.com/consumer/con...-by-state.html
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    ^^I am personally not opposed to banning or restricting private gun sales. So, I will re-phrase what I wrote that raising the age to purchase any firearm is not the only control I would support. It is odd though that even though NY has strict gun laws with consistent shootings, individuals and the media still blasts about gun control with no suggestions. You gave some good suggestions. I wonder why the media cannot besides flame politicians.
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    Just a question, trying to understand the process here.

    So you can be a resident of say NY state which supposedly had tighter controls/restrictions, and go to a more permissive state, and then just buy whatever you desire, and bring it back to NY ?
    Please record my time/reps if I pass out
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    ^^I am personally not opposed to banning or restricting private gun sales. So, I will re-phrase what I wrote that raising the age to purchase any firearm is not the only control I would support. It is odd though that even though NY has strict gun laws with consistent shootings, individuals and the media still blasts about gun control with no suggestions. You gave some good suggestions. I wonder why the media cannot besides flame politicians.
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    Originally Posted by NotJtbny View Post
    None of this nonsense has anything to do w/this incident. Stop trying to be the Dollar Store version of NG

    Those are my words, not NG.

    I leave the collapse of the dollar to him because that’s not my expertise yet.

    So think about this, this is the second worst school shooting and it happened under Biden, the 1st happened under Obama.

    Also Deva compared Waco to a country of armed civilians, how stupid is that? Waco was a handful of people. A country of armed citizens would be Ukraine had they not needed weapons from other nations.

    Take that to your dollar store. MAybe try rolling a little less if you are so worried about your children, the octagon is fools game.
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Those are my words, not NG.

    I leave the collapse of the dollar to him because that’s not my expertise yet.

    So think about this, this is the second worst school shooting and it happened under Biden, the 1st happened under Obama.

    Also Deva compared Waco to a country of armed civilians, how stupid is that? Waco was a handful of people. A country of armed citizens would be Ukraine had they not needed weapons from other nations.

    Take that to your dollar store. MAybe try rolling a little less if you are so worried about your children, the octagon is fools game.
    LWW, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it.
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    The only gun control I would support is to raise the age for purchase any firearm to 21, across the board.
    This is a start ^^ Not sure it would do much, but it's something. Owning a firearm is a huge responsibility; owning an AR-15 style weapon is an even bigger responsibility. Most 18 year olds aren't financially stable enough to care for a firearm like the AR-15.

    This shooter locked himself in a classroom and had his way with those poor souls. Absolutely disgusting. Parents had to bring DNA samples to help identify their children as they were disfigured so badly. This tragedy.....I can't find the words...
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    Originally Posted by bustasinclair View Post
    This is a start ^^ Not sure it would do much, but it's something. Owning a firearm is a huge responsibility; owning an AR-15 style weapon is an even bigger responsibility. Most 18 year olds aren't financially stable enough to care for a firearm like the AR-15.

    This shooter locked himself in a classroom and had his way with those poor souls. Absolutely disgusting. Parents had to bring DNA samples to help identify their children as they were disfigured so badly. This tragedy.....I can't find the words...
    On that note, we can learn something from Israel. You can’t buy a gun until you are 20 IF you went to military (draft is mandatory) and if you didn’t go to military, can’t get a gun until 27. Can’t have assault weapon in most cases, have to provide health bill to purchase a gun and homeland security crosschecks health records few times a year. We can’t control crazy, and we don’t know when someone can lose their chit, but we can make hard to get weapons.
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    Originally Posted by Cantplankwell View Post
    Just a question, trying to understand the process here.

    So you can be a resident of say NY state which supposedly had tighter controls/restrictions, and go to a more permissive state, and then just buy whatever you desire, and bring it back to NY ?
    Of course. But if you're caught in NYS with it you're getting a minimum of 3+ years. And because reciprocation isn't country wide I could have my CCW in Florida and not break the law until I'm in the northeast on my drive back to NY. NYS also requires registration of each hand gun meaning its serial number is on the license and you get a new license when you register a new one.

    So as an example I can drive down to Florida on vacation, buy a firearm from a private seller with no background check, and drive back to NY with it. Easy peasy and happens ALL the time.
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    Officials said that the gunman was a high school drop out who lived with his 66-year-old grandmother.

    Steve McCraw, the director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, said at the Wednesday news conference that gunman Salvador Ramos purchased a semiautomatic rifle at a local sporting goods store on March 17.

    The following day he purchased over 375 rounds of ammunition for the rifle. On March 20 he purchased another semi automatic rifle at that same local store.
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    Originally Posted by NotJtbny View Post
    LWW, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it.
    Than with your logic will continue to see the same chit, a bunch of political people who are protected by guns ramble on with fake lines about how this ONLY happens in America.

    I’m not in the insane group continually repeating the same bs.
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    Originally Posted by lotusdeva View Post
    On that note, we can learn something from Israel. You can’t buy a gun until you are 20 IF you went to military (draft is mandatory) and if you didn’t go to military, can’t get a gun until 27. Can’t have assault weapon in most cases, have to provide health bill to purchase a gun and homeland security crosschecks health records few times a year. We can’t control crazy, and we don’t know when someone can lose their chit, but we can make hard to get weapons.

    The difference is Israel and other countries don’t have arms written into their constitutions. Without a Constitutional Amendment - which has a bar that modern America is simply incapable of meeting - there isn't much that can actually be passed, as far as restrictions go, especially at a federal level.
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    Originally Posted by NotJtbny View Post
    Of course. But if you're caught in NYS with it you're getting a minimum of 3+ years. y .

    No one is getting 3 Years according to the statistics of the rap sheets of known criminals or does the courts set examples for the honest folk only in NY?
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    The difference is Israel and other countries don’t have arms written into their constitutions. Without a Constitutional Amendment - which has a bar that modern America is simply incapable of meeting - there isn't much that can actually be passed, as far as restrictions go, especially at a federal level.
    Constitution has been amended over 20 something times. Children dying in schools every damn year. I simply don’t get it. Maybe because I wasn’t born here. People care more about guns than their own children?
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