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  1. #1
    Registered User EliKoehn's Avatar
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    How badly does an individual poor night's sleep affect a workout in your experience?

    Just wondering about various experiences on this one. I slept about 4 hours last night in two broken stints and woke up very tired, but am following a program which has today marked as an important session, with my number of reps achieved on a working set determining the max I'll be attempting. I'm not too worried about it, as sometimes this doesn't seem to correlate with low performance scarcely at all (and recently I actually had a quite good session in spite of it) but other times, it notably does.

    And for clarity, I'm talking about an individual night where you slept far below what would constitute a normal minimum, not a chronic pattern of being underslept. We'll also say the other variables at play are generally assumed to be on point: i.e., nutrition, recent muscle stimulus, the will to succeed, etc.
    Bench: 340
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    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    I think the effect of lack of sleep on a workout tends to increase as you get older.

    I used to work out regularly on a couple hours of sleep over 10 years go, but now if I have one night like that I usually just skip the workout. Less because I think it’ll affect my ability to complete the workout, and more because I feel my body/mind overall could use the rest under the circumstances.

    Performance in general under poor sleep varies greatly from person to person.
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    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Personally, 1 night doesn't affect me much unless it's high volume training (which it seldom is these days). A few nights on the trot and it does start to take its toll though...
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    Registered User safcpaul's Avatar
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    Doesn't really effect me. Like suffolkpunch it would only effect me if I slept bad a few nights in a row but I find if I sleep bad one night then I'm tired and sleep well the next night so it never gets to the point it effects my workouts
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    1or2 nights...
    Strength - absolutely nothing at all
    Volume work -maybe dropping reps / more soreness
    Conditioning - definitely harder

    3+
    Strength - starts dipping
    Volume work - fef dropping reps / doms hang
    Conditioning - not even gonna try

    Longer term bad sleep. Everything is ****
    41 now, recovery is more important than when i was 20...but about the same as it was 10 years ago.

    My baseline nights sleep is 6 hours week days, 7h weekends
    Last edited by MyEgoProblem; 05-18-2022 at 10:25 AM.
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    Registered User Sinfinia's Avatar
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    Sometimes you barely feel it.

    Sometimes it just makes your workout mentally hard, but not impossible.

    Sometimes it destroys you.

    In theory: Explosive or highly technical movements should suffer more than simpler movements. So a Snatch max attempt, or a though Squat set might be bitch... But less do Deadlift for reps, or Pendlay Row for reps.

    Anyways: It's too "random" - I'm afraid you can't really put that in a formula.

    -----

    If today's workout is an important "test", I'd try to delay it to a day where your performance is "average".
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    Registered User EliKoehn's Avatar
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    Interesting. Thanks everyone for the feedback.

    It seemed to be a mixed bag on this workout, for me. Presses didn't go as well as they normally do (and I felt some latent lack of recovery there) so I only got 2 out of an intended set of 4 with 305 on the bench, but I also experimented and managed a 6RM with Pendlays which still felt quite good, for whatever reason. That's a bit odd since squats were my last heavy lift, so I wouldn't think the bench infrastructure would feel more taxed than that for the rows...

    Expecting to sleep well tonight and not have the issue going forward.

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    Originally Posted by Sinfinia View Post
    Sometimes you barely feel it.

    Sometimes it just makes your workout mentally hard, but not impossible.

    Sometimes it destroys you.
    100% this.
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  9. #9
    Formerly grouchyjarhead GrouchyUSMC's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Sinfinia View Post
    Sometimes you barely feel it.

    Sometimes it just makes your workout mentally hard, but not impossible.

    Sometimes it destroys you.

    In theory: Explosive or highly technical movements should suffer more than simpler movements. So a Snatch max attempt, or a though Squat set might be bitch... But less do Deadlift for reps, or Pendlay Row for reps.

    Anyways: It's too "random" - I'm afraid you can't really put that in a formula.

    -----

    If today's workout is an important "test", I'd try to delay it to a day where your performance is "average".
    Agree 100%.

    I work nights, so most of my sessions are either early in the morning on my work days, or late at night on my days off.

    Tuesday mornings is one of my strength sessions in the gym, and typically by that time I've been up almost 24 hours by that point. Some days, I have a great session. Some days, I'm a little bit tired but get through it. Some days, I'm exhausted and barely going through the motions.

    I see it during the overnight endurance events I do too. Sometimes I'm fine - no fatigue at all. Sometimes I'll feel a little bit, but nothing to worry about. Sometimes I'm falling asleep while I'm walking and carrying heavy crap. You just never know.

    There is a challenge among tactical fitness circles you could try if you're really curious. It's called Snake Eater's Delight. The "typical" session is a 10km run and a 10km weighted hike for time, then go 24 hours without sleeping and do both sessions again and see if you can beat your time. I'd say scaling it down to run a 5km both days and you'll still get the same effect.
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  10. #10
    Registered User EliKoehn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GrouchyUSMC View Post
    Agree 100%.

    I work nights, so most of my sessions are either early in the morning on my work days, or late at night on my days off.

    Tuesday mornings is one of my strength sessions in the gym, and typically by that time I've been up almost 24 hours by that point. Some days, I have a great session. Some days, I'm a little bit tired but get through it. Some days, I'm exhausted and barely going through the motions.

    I see it during the overnight endurance events I do too. Sometimes I'm fine - no fatigue at all. Sometimes I'll feel a little bit, but nothing to worry about. Sometimes I'm falling asleep while I'm walking and carrying heavy crap. You just never know.

    There is a challenge among tactical fitness circles you could try if you're really curious. It's called Snake Eater's Delight. The "typical" session is a 10km run and a 10km weighted hike for time, then go 24 hours without sleeping and do both sessions again and see if you can beat your time. I'd say scaling it down to run a 5km both days and you'll still get the same effect.
    Interesting... even controlling for sleep itself, how would you realistically beat your first time just on account of lack of recovery in general?

    If I've got to pull any all-nighters soon I might try this, although I don't live anywhere near to good hiking terrain, so that one might just have to be on flat ground.
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    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    Interesting... even controlling for sleep itself, how would you realistically beat your first time just on account of lack of recovery in general?
    I’m going to guess that being a current or former Marine helps a bit.
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    Formerly grouchyjarhead GrouchyUSMC's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    Interesting... even controlling for sleep itself, how would you realistically beat your first time just on account of lack of recovery in general?

    If I've got to pull any all-nighters soon I might try this, although I don't live anywhere near to good hiking terrain, so that one might just have to be on flat ground.
    The main idea is to give 100% effort in both cases, hence the idea of beating your old time. However, it can definitely happen - I've noticed on some events something I sucked at at first suddenly became easier for some reason, even when fatigued. It's a strange feeling.

    Since you're curious, here's the wall of text accompanying that challenge...

    Originally Posted by Tactical Barbell II:Conditioning by K. Black
    SNAKE-EATER'S DELIGHT

    Day 1
    10KM Ruck March + 50lbs
    10KM Run
    For Time

    PM - Sleep Deprivation.

    Day 2

    10KM Ruck March + 50lbs
    10KM Run
    For Time

    So if you really want a little taste of what some high speed military selections are like, this might be for you. Everyone comes to selection with prior skills and training. Private Jones might be an extremely fit runner, used to doing marathon and such in his off time. Private Smith might be able to pump out push-ups for days because he spends a lot of time in the gym. So just because Jones can run or Smith can do hundreds of push-ups with ease, does that mean they're unit material? Not necessarily. An important quality is how a candidate performs when he's brought to his personal breaking point, or past it. If it were as simple as using the best runners or strongest athletes, there would be very little need for selection.

    Now here's the thing. I can run Jones all day and he won't reach that breaking point. I can give Smith pull-ups and push-ups sunrise to sunset, it won't tell me much about him. On a run, Smith will probably tire out faster than Jones. But Smith can do more pull-ups than Jones. Physical tests of endurance are one way to bring people around to that breaking point, but what if you have a candidate like Jones who was a marathon runner or triathlete in the past? For Jones, physical endurance may not really bring him there all the way. The military wants to compare what Jones and Smith are both like, when they both hit that same breaking point. So how do you get Smith, Jones, the course superstar, and the other 30 guys on selection to the same breaking point in a given amount of time despite varying physical abilities?

    The application of mental and physiological stress in addition to physical work. One tried, true, and very effective stressor, is sleep deprivation. Sleep deprivation is the great equalizer. Doesn't matter how much you can bench press, how many hundreds of push-ups you can do, or how good of a swimmer you are, you will be brought to a level of weakness the same as everyone else after a few nights of no rack time. You can really see how someone's going to perform under pressure when you deprive them of sleep for a few days. Soldiers that initially looked like superstars turn into slugs, and slugs turn into superstars. Military units around the world have various versions of 'hell week' in which candidates are deprived of sleep for a week or more. Add to that extreme physical exertion, tasks requiring teamwork and some complexity, and you'll start to see pretty quickly who can persevere and who shuts down. Take away a meal or two, add in the elements of cold and discomfort, now we're talking. There's a reason special operations units aren't simply comprised of the military's best runners or strongest athletes.

    This session will give you a taste of this kind of discomfort and stress.

    On Day 1, perform a 10KM ruck march with a 50lb load. After your hike, drop the ruck and run 10KM as fast as you can. Both events are done for time, complete both as quickly as possible and record your times.

    Now you're done for the day. Now we introduce a little stress.

    Stay awake for the entire night. No sleep. No catnaps.

    Do whatever you like to stay awake. If you were in the military you might be setting up a defensive position, manning a perimeter point, or out on a recce patrol. You, however, can watch TV or play video games instead. Whatever you do, make sure you stay awake.

    You can begin Day 2 any time after 5AM. On Day 2, you'll repeat the ruck and run, and attempt to beat or match your previous day's timings.

    Basic Version:

    Sleep for 2-3 hours the night before Day 2. Go to bed at 2AM, wake up at 5AM, and do the run/ruck any time after 5AM. Sissy.

    Advanced/Operators:
    Do two nights of sleep deprivation in between your ruck/runs.

    There is no benefit to this session beyond testing your personal limits. Sleep deprivation is unhealthy.

    This session will appeal to a certain breed. Others will have no idea why any sane person would attempt this. If you have to ask...
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  13. #13
    4am club health4life24's Avatar
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    I've had some great workouts while sleep-deprived, setting PR's etc. Sometimes working off just a few hours of sleep, and some where I've been up for 24+ hours. I won't skip a training session just because of lack of sleep. I will regulate my training accordingly, and if I feel I need to back off the intensity because of the fact I am tired I will. But otherwise I treat it like a normal day.

    I used to work as an on call tow truck operator, took the truck home with me 7 days a week sometimes, and sleep was never guaranteed. I've had to deal with multiple days in a row of sleep-deprivation and sleep disruption. So I've had some experience with this.
    - Your mindset influences your outcome. It's time to take out phrases like "I can't" or "I don't have time" and replace them with phrases like "I will make the time" and "I will keep working at it until I find a way that works." Success starts with the right mindset and believing in yourself and your dreams.
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