A step in the right direction

[eomrat]

If that was my child, I would do a hard reset of everything in life. Much of these issues and stressors are symptoms of a sick society. I would start focusing just on living. Maybe move to a farm and just work every day and make my kids lean the basics of life. This would include growing and killing their own food to eat every day. Life would be hard, but time to question your 'gender identity' would take a back seat to just learning simple basics of life and survival.

Society is very sick and we cant protect our kids from it since it has permeated every aspect of life. But if I got to a point where our poison society was affecting my child enough, I would pull the plug on EVERYTHING. I would sacrifice myself and my life.

If they realized in this time, they were gay, then great. Good for them. But we all are who and what we are. No one is is born into the wrong body. Just some are mentally ill and it should be treated as such. Not encouraged.

Problem is too many parents dont want to do what has to be done or go to the lengths they need to to raise their kids. I would be SERIOUSLY troubled if my child suffered from this. Knowing that almost 50% attempt suicide regardless of treatment or not shows the issue is NOT one of being born in the wrong body. It is a mental illness.

One had to give their children the guidance and perspective to absorb and process the world. My kids LONG got the lesson that the the world is FUKED. The disney channel was one of the worst back when my daughter was 5 or 6. She it 18 now and we had MANY learning talks about how the behaviors portrayed on their shows was NOT normal and not respectful, I had to instruct them on the differences in what is created as 'entertainment' was NOT real life. Every show has a gay neighbor back then. Now they are all the main characters. I lived in many places and never once lived in a place with a gay neighbor let alone EVERYONE has a gay neighbor. I explained that I had gay friend though. But they were normal people too who just happened to be gay. Rather than gay defining who they were.


Anyway, I raise my kids. And the problems of this world are many people dont. FWIW, I have a cousin with a daughter who was (is) trans. It all came from attention though. Fuked up divorce. She was celebrated when she came out. My cousin tried to sue her husband to pay for the gendered treatments. He fought her in court. She became a boy, best she could. But still tried to kill herself a few times. A few years later, she was a girl again. Tried to kill herself again. She might be a boy again, I cant keep up. But she if fuked up in the head and her mother (my cousin) is a BIG part of the problem. Feel bad for the kids, and the parents who dont recognize or have the time to fully devote to their kids and raise them. My kids have never been in a day care. My wife and I raised them. I wonder how many trans kids had stay at home moms and stable families? Just curious. I see the difference in kids dumped in day care. Sorry, yes their is a difference.

You really love talking about yourself.

[Karl_Hungus]

Gender dysphoria is a medical condition and transition as medically necessary and the only effective treatment for, as recognized by every major US and world medical authority:

What are they basing that on? An organization can say anything they want and many of the orgs you cite have become infected with fatal cases of woke-ism that is even making it's way to medical journals. A perfect example is the world's largest study of the mental health ramifications of medical transioning which painted rosy outcomes for those who underwent medical transition. That is, until they got called on it and had to issue a retraction. Oops. I wonder why they made that mistake in the first place?

https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2020/09/71296/

The number of kids today claiming to be transgender has comparatively skyrocketed and the screening procedures for medical intervention are becoming increasingly lax (due to political pressure no doubt), and medical professionals are being censured and even fired for questioning the approach. This seems like a bad recipe to me, and one that is not conducive toward finding the truth or doing what is best for the kids.

[Mark1T]

^^Karl, I wonder how many suicides these organizations will be responsible for in the future for encouraging and performing procedures on children who are irresponsibly indoctrinated into a sick, fabricated and woke industry.

[Karl_Hungus]

• ⁠Bauer, et al., 2015: Transition vastly reduces risks of suicide attempts, and the farther along in transition someone is the lower that risk gets

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentra...889-015-1867-2

• ⁠Moody, et al., 2013: The ability to transition, along with family and social acceptance, are the largest factors reducing suicide risk among trans people

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3722435/

• ⁠Young Adult Psychological Outcome After Puberty Suppression and Gender Reassignment.

All showed significant improvement in their psychological health, and they had notably lower rates of internalizing psychopathology than previously reported among trans children living as their natal sex. Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population.

https://publications.aap.org/pediatr...dFrom=fulltext


• ⁠Dr. Ryan Gorton: “In a cross-sectional study of 141 transgender patients, Kuiper and Cohen-Kittenis found that after medical intervention and treatments, suicide fell from 19% to 0% in transgender men and from 24% to 6% in transgender women”


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3219066/

• ⁠Murad, et al., 2010: "Significant decrease in suicidality post-treatment. The average reduction was from 30 percent pretreatment to 8 percent post treatment.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19473181/

• ⁠De Cuypere, et al., 2006: Rate of suicide attempts dropped from 29.3 percent to 5.1 percent after receiving medical treatment among Dutch patients treated from 1986-2001.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...58136006000491

• ⁠UK study - McNeil, et al., 2012: "Suicidal ideation and actual attempts reduced after transition, with 63% thinking about or attempting suicide more before they transitioned and only 3% thinking about or attempting suicide more post-transition.

https://www.scottishtrans.org/wp-con...s_mh_study.pdf



• ⁠Smith Y, 2005: Participants improved on 13 out of 14 mental health measures after treatment

https://orca.cardiff.ac.uk/id/eprint...ith%202005.pdf

• ⁠Lawrence, 2003: Surveyed post-op trans folk: "Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives

https://link.springer.com/article/10...:1024086814364

• ⁠Reduction in Mental Health Treatment Utilization Among Transgender Individuals After Gender-Affirming Surgeries: A Total Population Study - "Conclusions: "... the longitudinal association between gender-affirming surgery and reduced likelihood of mental health treatment lends support to the decision to provide gender-affirming surgeries to transgender individuals who seek them."


https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/1....2019.19010080

2010 meta-analysis of 28 different studies, which found that transition is extremely effective at reducing dysphoria and improving quality of life.


https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...5.2009.03625.x

Quickly scanned the studies and can dig into them later, but most of them had such small sample sizes as to be nearly meaningless. The most definitive study that you do cite had a large sample size tracked over an extended period of time (the Swedish study). The problem? They had to issue a retraction because their analyses and conclusions turned out to be incorrect.

[induced_drag]

You really love talking about yourself.

I have always had strong opinions. Nothing new there. Not sure sharing what I would do in a situation as presented is 'talking about myself', but ok.

I respect others to do what they want. Just dont tell me what to do or push doctrine onto my kids or family. At that point we have a problem.









I am pretty cool though. I'll tell you about it later for sure



And then post some awesome pics!

[Karl_Hungus]

^^Karl, I wonder how many suicides these organizations will be responsible for in the future for encouraging and performing procedures on children who are irresponsibly indoctrinated into a sick, fabricated and woke industry.

Yeah, this Is the problem. Once politics becomes infused with science, getting at the truth is very very difficult. Even finding good research becomes difficult because researchers need their grant (funding) proposals to match the particular interests of the funding bodies. When those interests become political, you get biased research designed to confirm a particular viewpoint. You can still find good stuff out there, but you have to scrutinize it with a fine toothed comb to weed out the nonsense.

[induced_drag]

Quickly scanned the studies and can dig into them later, but most of them had such small sample sizes as to be neatly meaningless. The most definitive study that you do cite had a large sample size tracked over an extended period of time (the Swedish study). The problem? They had to issue a retraction because their analyses and conclusions turned out to be incorrect.

I skimmed them also.

Large effect sizes were observed for this controlled analysis of intervenable factors, suggesting that interventions to increase social inclusion and access to medical transition, and to reduce transphobia, have the potential to contribute to substantial reductions in the extremely high prevalences of suicide ideation and attempts within trans populations. Such interventions at the population level may require policy change.

When did medical studies become more about recommending large scale policy change? Might one say there is an agenda here?

[Mark1T]

Yeah, this Is the problem. Once politics becomes infused with science, getting at the truth is very very difficult. Even finding good research becomes difficult because researchers need their grant (funding) proposals to match the particular interests of the funding bodies. When those interests become political, you get biased research designed to confirm a particular viewpoint. You can still find good stuff out there, but you have to scrutinize it with a fine toothed comb to weed out the nonsense.

Truth.

[NorwichGrad]

This is my cousin when Charice was a biological SHE. Then hollywood encouraged her to 'change.' She was one of the best singers in the world.



This is 'Jake' after Charice's transition. Now hollywood ignores her like trash. Now 'he' sings like a karaoke addict.

It's very sad.




You people who support this form of child abuse are sick mudda fukkas. You have no clue what it does to kids. I don't wanna sound racist, but you mudda fukkas need Jesus in your lives.

[LWW]

Seen my first titty in a magazine at about 6 years of age while I was taking a sh!t in our outhouse. I was hooked instantly and have been chasing the titty ever since. The magazine was National Geographic and those titties were attached to a jungle lady that came with her own plate in her lip. Glad I didn't find that part attractive.

I had a plan as a kid that I would tell my grandpop that dad (his son) has playboys and then he would make my dad get rid of them and I would ask fir them. I actually thought as a kid it would work. Grandpop just laughed and ignored me when I told him.

[7Seconds]

Yeah, this Is the problem. Once politics becomes infused with science, getting at the truth is very very difficult. Even finding good research becomes difficult because researchers need their grant (funding) proposals to match the particular interests of the funding bodies. When those interests become political, you get biased research designed to confirm a particular viewpoint. You can still find good stuff out there, but you have to scrutinize it with a fine toothed comb to weed out the nonsense.

How is this law and others across the country any different? If we agree that mental health treatment is needed who should decide what that is, the state or the parents and their doctors?

[LWW]

How is this law and others across the country any different? If we agree that mental health treatment is needed who should decide what that is, the state or the parents and their doctors?

Lol at mental health. Nudy mags are the answer to mental health.

As a kid, the mentally challenged kid up the road stole his step bros Hustlers and showed them to me, I naturally took a few off his hands. A few days later the cops show up at my house saying the retarted kids mom found Hustlers and he said I gave them to him. I had to tell the cops he stole them from his step bro. Anyway this is how kids grow up healthy. The retarded kid is married and when he was 18 he was sleeping with a crackhead chick and got her pregnant, at least he don’t think he’s a woman.

[Mark1T]

How is this law and others across the country any different? If we agree that mental health treatment is needed who should decide what that is, the state or the parents and their doctors?

But, it would be a disservice to the child if some mental health practitioners are woke-biased and psychologically make the decision for the child that he or she truly is a trans or whatever pronoun they choose and that they need to accept who they might think they are. Goes against all ethics and a concern - if I were a parent.

[7Seconds]

But, it would be a disservice to the child if some mental health practitioners are woke-biased and psychologically make the decision for the child that he or she truly is a trans or whatever pronoun they choose and that they need to accept who they might think they are. Goes against all ethics and a concern - if I were a parent.

You prefer for the government to make a generalized rule about it just in case a kid, a parent, and a trained medical professional all happen to make the wrong decision?

So the government, with none of the facts specific to each case, is more likely to yield better outcomes by making a blanket decision for all cases than a group of informed parties led by a medical professional with all the facts specific to the individual case?

[induced_drag]

You prefer for the government to make a generalized rule about it just in case a kid, a parent, and a trained medical professional all happen to make the wrong decision?

So the government, with none of the facts specific to each case, is more likely to yield better outcomes by making a blanket decision for all cases than a group of informed parties led by a medical professional with all the facts specific to the individual case?

I dont believe that ANYONE can ever be born into the wrong body so this is pretty cut an dry. There should be no choice to alter the biology of any minor. If as an adult, they want to become a unicorn, or a human/lizard hybrid, and they can pay for what ever procedures they want to get, more power to them.

Yes, it is that simple


I mean think about this. What if you wanted to have to have your kids sterilized. Should you be allowed to do that? Say they were 10 girl and they told you they knew they never wanted kids. Can you give a girl a hysterectomy at that point? What if a boy really enjoyed singing in choir as a soprano and his whole identity came to be known as a male soprano. Can you decide to castrate him if he really wants it?

[LWW]

You prefer for the government to make a generalized rule about it just in case a kid, a parent, and a trained medical professional all happen to make the wrong decision?

So the government, with none of the facts specific to each case, is more likely to yield better outcomes by making a blanket decision for all cases than a group of informed parties led by a medical professional with all the facts specific to the individual case?

Grown ups pushing this BS on kids are just as bad as laws. The skreewl (school) system is chit if they are doing this, the teachers are chit and the counselors are chit.

The kids need basic biology for the truth and they need to grow up without these ideas pushed on them and find out who they are naturally.

This is just as bad as gubmit stepping in.

[7Seconds]

I dont believe that ANYONE can ever be born into the wrong body so this is pretty cut an dry.

Understood, others disagree and parents are given wide latitude (and responsibility) to make care decisions in their children's best interests. If the child's care team and parents decide gender-affirming care is in the child's best interest, then they should have the right to do so free of governmental coersion.

[induced_drag]

Understood, others disagree and parents are given wide latitude (and responsibility) to make care decisions in their children's best interests. If the child's care team and parents decide gender-affirming care is in the child's best interest, then they should have the right to do so free of governmental coersion.

Should I have the right to give my 15 year old son AAS? It would be in his best interest as he really identifies as a athlete. So, I should have the 'right' to do this. No?

[mtpockets]

[Mark1T]

You prefer for the government to make a generalized rule about it just in case a kid, a parent, and a trained medical professional all happen to make the wrong decision?

So the government, with none of the facts specific to each case, is more likely to yield better outcomes by making a blanket decision for all cases than a group of informed parties led by a medical professional with all the facts specific to the individual case?

I would just rather the parent(s) make decisions for a child if he or she is under-aged. Not the government.

Our country is turning into culture war after culture war instead of policies that might help reverse policies that are negatively affecting every single person in the US, such as the current economic policy/policies.

[Karl_Hungus]

You prefer for the government to make a generalized rule about it just in case a kid, a parent, and a trained medical professional all happen to make the wrong decision?

So the government, with none of the facts specific to each case, is more likely to yield better outcomes by making a blanket decision for all cases than a group of informed parties led by a medical professional with all the facts specific to the individual case?

I don't have a problem with it in this case. Doctors are trained to restore normal physiological functioning when it breaks down. In the case of transgender "treatment", they are doing nothing of the sort. They are deliberately disrupting normal bodily functions to effectively treat a mental condition using methods whose clinical outcomes and long-term effects are largely unknown. I would agree with you if we were talking about treating an actual physiological disease, but we are not. The rigor of psychological assessments prior to implementing these procedures is becoming more and more lax, largely due to political pressure and the fear of backlash. I find this extremely concerning. I also don't believe that we have given the ethics of physicians being involved in these procedures enough consideration. A person with Body Identity Integrity Disorder also believes they were born in the wrong body, and that portions of their anatomy should be removed as a result. However, it is fairly obvious to most that chopping off a person's arm to treat this mental disorder is not an appropriate treatment, yet because this disorder doesn't coincide with current social obsessions, we aren't as blinded to the obvious ethical considerations of implementing such a treatment.

Understood, others disagree

Perhaps, but that is only because they haven't given it much thought. The reality is, I would bet that you don't agree that it is possible to be born in the wrong body either. From what I gather from your posts, I would guess you to be an atheist or an agnostic, and not one who believes in a soul per se. However, the very idea of being born in the wrong body implies a type of Cartesian dualism. If you are a materialist, as I suspect you are (which also serves as the foundation of medicine), you would have to concede that there is no separation of the mind and body. You are a physiological mechanical device whose brain, cognition, and consciousness are shaped through the conveyance by which you interact with the world (e.g. your body). Even our ability to understand abstract concepts and form linguistic metaphors are based on concrete perceptual interactions using our bodies in spatial domains, and also through inner feedback mechanisms associated with our physiological states. Put simply, if you were born in a different body, you would be a fundamentally different person in the same way that if you were born with a different brain you would be a fundamentally different person. Ultimately, it isn't that a person is born in the wrong body (that is quite impossible), but rather they have a psychological condition that makes them believe that they are born in the wrong body.