Question regarding DOMS

[brenkermc]

Hello all, I apologize if this is in the wrong section.

I'm curious, does anyone know or have any idea if DOMS significantly raises one's Basal Metabolic Rate at rest, and if so, why or how? I'm asking because I recently started cutting while strength training to avoid possible losses in strength while losing some body fat. This is before I consider a bulk.

If it helps, I'm male, recently turned 30 and weigh about 175. Body fat at this moment difficult to gauge but I wouldn't say obese or significantly overweight.

Thanks in advance🙂

[air2fakie]

I'm curious, does anyone know or have any idea if DOMS significantly raises one's Basal Metabolic Rate at rest, and if so, why or how?

Doubt it but I think you're micromanaging.

[Heisman2]

It should not, and DOMS typically significantly decreases after 3 weeks of training consistently so any impact it has would likely be transient.

Side note as I find this interesting: we still don't know the underlying physiologic mechanism that causes DOMS. For one theoretical mechanism that I don't recall ever seeing anyone discuss: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7139782/

[faithbrah]

just replied to your other thread before seeing this one... it's always better to make one thread in the wrong section than it is to make two threads where one of them is in the right section. people will reply to both and one will get deleted anyway (and not because it's in the wrong section - because it's a duplicate)

[EliKoehn]

To the best of my amateur knowledge, unfortunately no, OP. Heavy lifting can increase sarcoplasm levels and generally stimulates appetite, so it's unlikely that you'll see any positive correlation in weight loss from intense resistance training. However, it is essential in developing and maintaining muscle mass, so do it, but manage the bodyweight side of the equation simply by tracking your calories rather than trying to factor in exercise.

It should not, and DOMS typically significantly decreases after 3 weeks of training consistently so any impact it has would likely be transient.

Side note as I find this interesting: we still don't know the underlying physiologic mechanism that causes DOMS. For one theoretical mechanism that I don't recall ever seeing anyone discuss: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7139782/

Anecdotally, it seems to occur quite randomly for me. Many of the experienced and regular lifters here claim never to have it unless they ended up on a long hiatus from the gym and just returned, or incorporate an exercise variation and try something new. In my case, I often have latent and mild DOMS in my legs just about every day, which shows up in squat warmups or when I go up the stairs; oftentimes this isn't in close proximity to any kind of specific leg work. Usually it's there a little bit from time to time on my major exercises, but sometimes I progress and it's still not there: for instance, yesterday I squatted three heavy sets of 6 and then deadlifted a set of 5, and then 6 above 400, the latter of which was a PR, and I have zero DOMS. Wonder what accounts for the variability?

The hypothesis that it is nerve microtrauma seems to accord with occurrence from variation rather than tissue damage, as the tissue itself of the entire muscle is utilized in a massive compound even if the motor skill would be different in a movement pattern which wasn't quite the same.

[desslok]

It should not, and DOMS typically significantly decreases after 3 weeks of training consistently so any impact it has would likely be transient.

Side note as I find this interesting: we still don't know the underlying physiologic mechanism that causes DOMS. For one theoretical mechanism that I don't recall ever seeing anyone discuss: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7139782/

Weird, wondering if they start treating it with something like gabapentin.

[air2fakie]

It should not, and DOMS typically significantly decreases after 3 weeks of training consistently so any impact it has would likely be transient.

Side note as I find this interesting: we still don't know the underlying physiologic mechanism that causes DOMS. For one theoretical mechanism that I don't recall ever seeing anyone discuss: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7139782/

If DOMS is eliminated (if it can be via treatment/medication) where it otherwise would exist, would that affect gains (transient or not) based on things you've read? Not relevant to me personally, just curious if studies have looked at this topic.

[Heisman2]

Weird, wondering if they start treating it with something like gabapentin.

That would be easy enough for someone to try.

If DOMS is eliminated (if it can be via treatment/medication) where it otherwise would exist, would that affect gains (transient or not) based on things you've read? Not relevant to me personally, just curious if studies have looked at this topic.

Antioxidants and cold therapy tend to decrease gains and while the former doesn't have consistent evidence of decreasing DOMS (if I recall correctly), the latter can. But I don't think it's the alleviation of DOMS itself that makes the difference there. In general muscle protein synthesis when starting a new routine does not correlate with longer term hypertrophy, but muscle protein synthesis after a few weeks does, implying that the muscle protein synthesis when starting is mostly to repair damage done by the new stresses. It's also generally not possible to detect hypertrophy in the first few weeks of training due to edema associated with the new training stimulus. This leads me to think that decreasing underlying muscle damage may be beneficial if anything, and this could potentially apply to DOMS if DOMS correlates with muscle damage. We know DOMS occurs more with eccentric-based movements which can contribute to hypertrophy but don't contribute more so than normal repetitions with a concentric and eccentric phase.

So overall I don't think treating DOMS for the sake of reducing DOMS is going to be very beneficial.

[air2fakie]

Antioxidants and cold therapy tend to decrease gains and while the former doesn't have consistent evidence of decreasing DOMS (if I recall correctly), the latter can. But I don't think it's the alleviation of DOMS itself that makes the difference there. In general muscle protein synthesis when starting a new routine does not correlate with longer term hypertrophy, but muscle protein synthesis after a few weeks does, implying that the muscle protein synthesis when starting is mostly to repair damage done by the new stresses. It's also generally not possible to detect hypertrophy in the first few weeks of training due to edema associated with the new training stimulus. This leads me to think that decreasing underlying muscle damage may be beneficial if anything, and this could potentially apply to DOMS if DOMS correlates with muscle damage. We know DOMS occurs more with eccentric-based movements which can contribute to hypertrophy but don't contribute more so than normal repetitions with a concentric and eccentric phase.

So overall I don't think treating DOMS for the sake of reducing DOMS is going to be very beneficial.

Got it, thanks for the detailed response. Yeah I was more curious if studies have looked into this more than the specific merits (as you may have noticed, I'm somewhat skeptical about the protocol & conclusions of many studies).

[rml27v]

Anecdotally, it seems to occur quite randomly for me. Many of the experienced and regular lifters here claim never to have it unless they ended up on a long hiatus from the gym and just returned, or incorporate an exercise variation and try something new.

That's interesting. I have doms constantly.

[Heisman2]

That's interesting. I have doms constantly.

Perhaps you have a genetic mutation that makes soreness more likely: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4983298/