When to increase weight

[hanzosbm]

Pretty simple question. For hypertrophy, I know the 8-12 rep range. My question is, is that 8-12 on the first or last set? If I'm doing 5 sets of bench press and hit 12/10/8/6/4, should I increase weight? Should I keep going until I hit 12/12/12/12/12? Somewhere in the middle?

[air2fakie]

Your asking others when to add weight on your own program?

[lsiberian]

Pretty simple question. For hypertrophy, I know the 8-12 rep range. My question is, is that 8-12 on the first or last set? If I'm doing 5 sets of bench press and hit 12/10/8/6/4, should I increase weight? Should I keep going until I hit 12/12/12/12/12? Somewhere in the middle?

Most programs want you to do straight 12s. It doesn't matter though TBH. As long as you make progress.

Are you resting long enough between sets?
Are you going too hard on your first set?

[air2fakie]

Above is correct.

But if you made a program requiring 5x12s for increasing weight it likely isn't going to drive progression well, which was my point. You have such a big dropoff with each set that you should prob do something more intuitive & thoughtful than 5 straight sets across the board for your lifts.

To pick a rep range because you believe it's good for hypertrophy & then not know how to executive it is working in the wrong direction IMO.

[coachcalande]

Personally, I’d vary the poundage, push sets to the limit. Each workout try to beat previous PRs. At times you’ll crush it, at others you’ll be like “meh, not that strong today”

So let’s say you had a 200 pound max.

60% of that is 120 lbs. 80% of that is 160 lbs.

You warm up, say 45x15, then 75x8

Then your workout begins

120 x AMRAP
130xAMRAP
140 xAMRAP
150xAMRAP
160xAMRAP

Now suppose you got…
120x12
130x8
140x6
150x5
160x4

Since you wanted 12 as your top rep

Next workout you could go
125
135
145
155
165


And for a change up, on any day where you just don’t feel it, stay closer to 65-70% of max

[hanzosbm]

Most programs want you to do straight 12s. It doesn't matter though TBH. As long as you make progress.

Are you resting long enough between sets?
Are you going too hard on your first set?

Well, resting at least 2 minutes between sets. I generally go to 0 RIR (not the same as failure, but it happens sometimes) on every set UNLESS I hit that upper limit. Here's an example:

1st set: hit 12, could probably do a few more, so I stop at 12
2nd set: hit 12, but couldn't have gotten another one
3rd set: hit 9, couldn't hit another one
4th set: hit 6 good ones, try for a 7th, don't quite make it
5th set: hit 4, fail on the 5th attempt

Again, these are hypothetical examples.
Real world, I actually just stepped up from 3 sets to 4 (not ready to go to 5 yet). Last Friday I was hitting 12x4 on shoulder presses, so I increased the weight by 5lbs and went 10/7/5/4. On the other hand, for incline curls I stayed at the same weight and went 12/10/8/6. Pull ups were 13/9/5/6 (I won't be adding weight to these as I have a bad shoulder, but that's another issue)
But then, I've got things like my squats that were 12/12/10/7. This is the kind of range where I'm not sure if I should toss more weight on the bar or stick with it till I can clear 12 on each set. It's not so much an ego thing of wanting to increase the weight as much as I feel like that first set is almost wasted effort because I stopped before I was really fatigued. Everything I read/hear says it's the "hard" reps where you make your money. So I feel like if I'm stopping a set simply because I've hit some predetermined number that I'm cheating myself. On the flip side, if I increase weight as soon as my first set hits 12 reps, I end up in a situation where my 4th set might only be 4 reps.

Hence my confusion.

[RapidFail]

Well, resting at least 2 minutes between sets. I generally go to 0 RIR (not the same as failure, but it happens sometimes) on every set UNLESS I hit that upper limit. Here's an example:

1st set: hit 12, could probably do a few more, so I stop at 12
2nd set: hit 12, but couldn't have gotten another one
3rd set: hit 9, couldn't hit another one
4th set: hit 6 good ones, try for a 7th, don't quite make it
5th set: hit 4, fail on the 5th attempt

Again, these are hypothetical examples.
Real world, I actually just stepped up from 3 sets to 4 (not ready to go to 5 yet). Last Friday I was hitting 12x4 on shoulder presses, so I increased the weight by 5lbs and went 10/7/5/4. On the other hand, for incline curls I stayed at the same weight and went 12/10/8/6. Pull ups were 13/9/5/6 (I won't be adding weight to these as I have a bad shoulder, but that's another issue)
But then, I've got things like my squats that were 12/12/10/7. This is the kind of range where I'm not sure if I should toss more weight on the bar or stick with it till I can clear 12 on each set. It's not so much an ego thing of wanting to increase the weight as much as I feel like that first set is almost wasted effort because I stopped before I was really fatigued. Everything I read/hear says it's the "hard" reps where you make your money. So I feel like if I'm stopping a set simply because I've hit some predetermined number that I'm cheating myself. On the flip side, if I increase weight as soon as my first set hits 12 reps, I end up in a situation where my 4th set might only be 4 reps.

Hence my confusion.

There are different ways of progressing and having tried a few I can say that dynamic double progression is my favourite so far. I pick a rep range rather than a set number of reps, let's say for example I'm using the 8-12 range and doing 4 sets. One day might look like this:

Set 1 - 12 x 100lb
Set 2 - 10 x 100lb
Set 3 - 8 x 100lb
Set 4 - 11 x 90lb

I don't worry about my performance for sets 2-4, I just take then to 0-2 RIR (usually 0-1 for isolation exercises and 1-2 RIR for compound exercises). If I dont think I can get the minimum reps, I will reduce the weight by 10%. If I hit the top of the rep range for the first set, I will add weight the next week.

Set 1 - 10 x 105lb
Set 2 - 8 x 105lb
Set 3 - 11 x 95lb
Set 4 - 9 x 95lb

[hanzosbm]

There are different ways of progressing and having tried a few I can say that dynamic double progression is my favourite so far. I pick a rep range rather than a set number of reps, let's say for example I'm using the 8-12 range and doing 4 sets. One day might look like this:

Set 1 - 12 x 100lb
Set 2 - 10 x 100lb
Set 3 - 8 x 100lb
Set 4 - 11 x 90lb

I don't worry about my performance for sets 2-4, I just take then to 0-2 RIR (usually 0-1 for isolation exercises and 1-2 RIR for compound exercises). If I dont think I can get the minimum reps, I will reduce the weight by 10%. If I hit the top of the rep range for the first set, I will add weight the next week.

Set 1 - 10 x 105lb
Set 2 - 8 x 105lb
Set 3 - 11 x 95lb
Set 4 - 9 x 95lb

Ahhh, okay, I think I understand. So use the first (strongest) set to determine when to ADD weight, but ensure that all sets stay in the desired rep range by decreasing weight when necessary. I like that. Have you had any issues with tracking progress in this way? For instance, right now it's easy to say "last session I did 105lbs for 12/10/8/6, this time I did 105lbs for 12/12/9/7, so I clearly made progress". But I guess I'm wondering if you get into situations where last session was 105lbs for 10/8 and 95lbs for 11/9, but this time it was 105lbs for 11/9 and 95lbs for 10/8, or something like that. Or has it been pretty linear in your experience?

[asrl78]

Personally, I’d vary the poundage, push sets to the limit. Each workout try to beat previous PRs. At times you’ll crush it, at others you’ll be like “meh, not that strong today”

So let’s say you had a 200 pound max.

60% of that is 120 lbs. 80% of that is 160 lbs.

You warm up, say 45x15, then 75x8

Then your workout begins

120 x AMRAP
130xAMRAP
140 xAMRAP
150xAMRAP
160xAMRAP

Now suppose you got…
120x12
130x8
140x6
150x5
160x4

Since you wanted 12 as your top rep

Next workout you could go
125
135
145
155
165


And for a change up, on any day where you just don’t feel it, stay closer to 65-70% of max

Could you do this in reverse, so start with your heaviest weight and go lighter with each set? That way, you lift the heaviest weight when your muscles are least fatigued, which should enable you to do more work.

[RapidFail]

Ahhh, okay, I think I understand. So use the first (strongest) set to determine when to ADD weight, but ensure that all sets stay in the desired rep range by decreasing weight when necessary. I like that. Have you had any issues with tracking progress in this way? For instance, right now it's easy to say "last session I did 105lbs for 12/10/8/6, this time I did 105lbs for 12/12/9/7, so I clearly made progress". But I guess I'm wondering if you get into situations where last session was 105lbs for 10/8 and 95lbs for 11/9, but this time it was 105lbs for 11/9 and 95lbs for 10/8, or something like that. Or has it been pretty linear in your experience?

If you're a beginner, progress should be pretty linear, but after that, not so much. I used to keep track of performance across all sets, but now I only pay attention to the first set - the one I do when freshest and strongest. Other sets I just make sure I'm working hard enough.

Of course you don't need to drop weight, just making sure the first set falls in the desired range and letting reps drop is perfectly fine too. In the example you gave: 105lb for 12/10/8/6 reps, I would add weight if 12 was the top of the rep range.

[RapidFail]

Could you do this in reverse, so start with your heaviest weight and go lighter with each set? That way, you lift the heaviest weight when your muscles are least fatigued, which should enable you to do more work.

I think the important thing is that you are warming up properly My last squat session went like this:

10 x 20kg
5 x 40kg
3 x 60kg
1 x 75kg, 3 min rest
7 x 75kg (PR!), 3 min rest
5 x 75kg, 3 min rest
5 x 67.5kg, 3 min rest

Only the last three were true work sets, which is why I rest before and after. Warm up sets should pyramid up, but they also shouldn't be fatiguing and don't count as work sets.

I think what coach is talking about is something different - traditional pyramid sets. I haven't tried them myself.

[hanzosbm]

If you're a beginner, progreee should be pretty linear, but after that, not so much. I used to keep track of performance across all sets, but now I only pay attention to the first set - the one I do when freshest and strongest. Other sets I just make sure I'm working hard enough.

Of course you don't need to drop weight, just making sure the first set falls in the desired range and letting reps drop is perfectly fine too. In the example you gave: 105lb for 12/10/8/6 reps, I would add weight if 12 was the top of the rep range.

Well, beginner is a bit relative, and in my case, even more of a grey area. Some lifts (bench press for example) are pretty straight forward and I've been lifting for around 6 months. Squats and deadlifts though...I started around the same time, but have repeatedly started, stopped, changed types, etc due to trying to work on my form and do it properly.
However, I think I get what you're saying. Sounds like the important set for deciding on adding weight is the first one, so I'll focus there. I'm also playing with the idea of varying my upper threshold depending on the exercise. So, maybe I increase weight when I hit 12 tricep extensions, but might also increase weight when I hit 10 deadlifts. Still thinking through that one.

Glad you brought up warm ups too. I will admit to not warming up, as I've always felt like it was sapping strength from my first lift, but, I guess if the point is progress, and as long as I warm up consistently, it isn't much of an issue. I notice in your example that you only list rests once you get up to your target weight (for lack of a better term). Does that mean that the lower weights are done basically without rest? I both want to make sure I'm doing it right, and also trying not to double the duration of my workout.

[coachcalande]

Could you do this in reverse, so start with your heaviest weight and go lighter with each set? That way, you lift the heaviest weight when your muscles are least fatigued, which should enable you to do more work.

Yes. See “reverse pyramid “ or “reverse crescent training”

[Filmbuff81]

If you’re doing 5 sets id only worry about the first 3 sets hitting the top end of the rep target.

Trying to get 5x12 would be pretty tough and if you do get it, id argue the first couple sets were too easy.

Isolation work is a different story, id say aim for the top end on all sets. Or if you start getting outside the rep range on the first few sets because it’s too easy it’s time to up the weight.

[RapidFail]

Well, beginner is a bit relative, and in my case, even more of a grey area. Some lifts (bench press for example) are pretty straight forward and I've been lifting for around 6 months. Squats and deadlifts though...I started around the same time, but have repeatedly started, stopped, changed types, etc due to trying to work on my form and do it properly.
However, I think I get what you're saying. Sounds like the important set for deciding on adding weight is the first one, so I'll focus there. I'm also playing with the idea of varying my upper threshold depending on the exercise. So, maybe I increase weight when I hit 12 tricep extensions, but might also increase weight when I hit 10 deadlifts. Still thinking through that one.

Glad you brought up warm ups too. I will admit to not warming up, as I've always felt like it was sapping strength from my first lift, but, I guess if the point is progress, and as long as I warm up consistently, it isn't much of an issue. I notice in your example that you only list rests once you get up to your target weight (for lack of a better term). Does that mean that the lower weights are done basically without rest? I both want to make sure I'm doing it right, and also trying not to double the duration of my workout.

Using different rep ranges for different lifts is definitely a good idea - usually higher reps for isolation exercises and lower reps for compound exercises. I'm currently going as high as 15-25 reps for calf raises and as low as 4-6 reps for deadlifts.

You definitely should be warming up for the big compound exercises. Warm up sets should improve your performance for the first work set and minimize the risk of injury - no need to rest between warm up sets, but rest after the last warmup and before the first work set.

[pinfante]

Pretty simple question. For hypertrophy, I know the 8-12 rep range. My question is, is that 8-12 on the first or last set? If I'm doing 5 sets of bench press and hit 12/10/8/6/4, should I increase weight? Should I keep going until I hit 12/12/12/12/12? Somewhere in the middle?

Easier way to track is go 8/8/8/8/8 then when you hit that work at it til you go 9/9/9/9/9 repeat up to 12 then up the weight and start back at 8.

[RapidFail]

Easier way to track is go 8/8/8/8/8 then when you hit that work at it til you go 9/9/9/9/9 repeat up to 12 then up the weight and start back at 8.

If I were to lift that way, I'd need to leave about 7 reps in reserve on the first set.

[safcpaul]

I'd increase the weight if you hit 12 on the first set and then just have the other sets as extra volume