Strength standards

[coachcalande]

This is fun. Where do you fit in? I rate pretty daggone good in my age/weight bracket!

https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/male/lb

[paulinkansas]

Mostly intermediate, a little advanced. But I still claim to be a feeble little 54 year old man.

[HomeGymChains]

Thanks for posting that link! (Reps on spread.)

My numbers put me slightly above Intermediate. Pretty happy with that for three years progress.

(According to that website…
“Intermediate Stronger than 50% of lifters. An intermediate lifter has trained regularly in the technique for at least two years.
Advanced Stronger than 80% of lifters. An advanced lifter has progressed for over five years.”)

[RapidFail]

After 3-and-a-bit years of consistent lifting, age 37, bodyweight in the 75-80kg (165-176lb) range :

Bench - novice
Squat - beginner (just need another 5lb to hit novice)
Deadlift - novice
OHP - novice
Curl - novice
Bent-over Row - intermediate
Power clean - never done it

I checked and I rate intermediate for chin ups too - guess I'm better at pulling than anything else.

[EiFit91]

I never do 1RMs and don’t do the big 3 so don’t really know but going by the rep calculator I have hit «Advanced» for three movements: Bulgarian split squat, DB bench press and barbell rows. Very happy about the last one as I have always struggled with pulling.

Everything else is «intermediate». Pullups in particular I find really hard to improve and doubt I will ever hit advanced on them.

[RapidFail]

I never do 1RMs and don’t do the big 3 so don’t really know but going by the rep calculator I have hit «Advanced» for three movements: Bulgarian split squat, DB bench press and barbell rows. Very happy about the last one as I have always struggled with pulling.

Everything else is «intermediate». Pullups in particular I find really hard to improve and doubt I will ever hit advanced on them.

I also don't do 1RMs (but I do do the big 3, though I squat high bar as upright as possible) - all my numbers are based on a rep max calculator.

[BeginnerGainz]

That website is sh!t. Literally anyone can put in a hypothetical lift and it gets counted as actually happened.

Then of course you have ego lifters that half rep, squat hella high, etc etc clogging up the algorithm.

Exrx has a better “standard” to go off of.

https://exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifti...engthStandards

[TAWS6]

A 370 squat and 430 dl are apparently “advanced” in the 24-39, 180 lb group..

Yeah, no. I could rep that if I actually cared about those lifts.

[MyEgoProblem]

yeah... no., this is ****y as all **** xD

but for fun... washed up and battered masters 1 fat lad

inter comp bench
a few kg off an elite comp squat
high adv comp dead
inter press
inter ez comp curl
advanced barbell row (if pendlay - easily elite if yates lol)
a few kg of an advanced powerclean lul

i dont barbell press more than a few times a year.
barbell curl essentially never, but im assuming strict comp ez curl
only know my clean because i couldnt be bothered to unload the bar to put in rack

[FurtadoZ9]

Cool sheet, I like how the ratio's scale with bodyweight. It's pretty spot on if you compare this to Wilks.

A 370 squat and 430 dl are apparently “advanced” in the 24-39, 180 lb group..

Yeah, no. I could rep that if I actually cared about those lifts.

Yeah lol I think the data is publicly pooled. I'm "elite" in some of the lifts but wouldn't even consider them advanced

[TolerantLactose]

I like this one because it has a diagram.

https://symmetricstrength.com

[BeginnerGainz]

I like this one because it has a diagram.

https://symmetricstrength.com

That one is interesting.

[Filmbuff81]

I don’t even think I’d place top 10 in a provincial meet but my lifts fall between advanced to elite.

I’d qualify my own lifts as intermediate-advanced for the most part. But I guess if it’s against gen-pop vs actual strength athletes they’d be advanced-elite

[RapidFail]

The whole idea of strength standards is quite interesting. I don't think they're at all good for determining one's training level - due to genetic variability in potential for strength - but they can serve well as benchmarks to work towards.

When it comes to strength, what should 'intermediate', 'advanced' and 'elite' mean?

I'm just finding it funny that the majority here are finding the standards too easy, while I would be happy to achieve intermediate for most lifts.

[BeginnerGainz]

The whole idea of strength standards is quite interesting. I don't think they're at all good for determining one's training level - due to genetic variability in potential for strength - but they can serve well as benchmarks to work towards.

When it comes to strength, what should 'intermediate', 'advanced' and 'elite' mean?

I'm just finding it funny that the majority here are finding the standards too easy, while I would be happy to achieve intermediate for most lifts.

Probably isn’t even worth thinking about, TBH.

[EiFit91]

Probably isn’t even worth thinking about, TBH.

Honestly, this probably. Nobody outside the gym even cares what you lift or even understands what the numbers mean, it's how you look that matters. If I mention anything to my wife about what I lift she says "that's impressive!" but her face says "lol wtf you talking about". If I cut and get more muscle definition and lose strength she's all "wow you look so muscular".

I bet if you (RapidFail) and lots of way stronger bros were lined up and shirtless in front of a crowd and the crowd was asked "who's stronger?" you would be ranked very high because you are maintaining a low BF%, so you'll look stronger than lots of people who are way stronger and carrying higher BF.

To non gym people just being able to do pullups will be viewed as very impressive.

Also a point that hasn't been mentioned yet: Any definition of "Advanced" and "Elite" in the modern day and age will suffer from the problem that there are fake natties everywhere. Gear use is incredibly common, even among people who you wouldn't think were on it.

There really should be separate standards for natties and non-natties IMO.

[safcpaul]

Intermediate for all my lifts. I remember looking at this and following it and saying I wouldn't cut until I got all my lifts to intermediate. Now I have, I'm still wanting to get them higher before cutting

[TAWS6]

And when a natty cuts down to 10 percent they look smaller in clothing which you’re in pretty much all day. So you can’t win lol.

[EliKoehn]

IMO, while something like strength level is self-reported and therefore skewed with either outright lies or fed plenty of numbers with impassable form, detractors from its utility fail to see its value as an objective standard for everyone here, scaling with age/weight/sex. Really not bad for a ballpark benchmark in my take.

Also, the categorization is sort of arbitrary by default. I think it scales relative to the "gym population" not the general one, so of course advanced will appear easier relative to actual strength athletes, while almost any amount of trained strength will greatly exceed that of the sedentary population.

For whatever strength level is worth, taking my age and weight into account, I'm pushing the high end of "intermediate" on bench, rows, and deadlift, am in the middle of it with curls and lateral raises, and am still novice with squats and OHP.

[nightanole]

How about a chart based on using measured results of competitions, and then adding a modifier for experience level?

https://www.muscleandstrength.com/ar...atural-lifters


If you roll the numbers, a "strong lifter" that is around 190-200lbs (goal of starting strength) would still be hitting those magic 1/2/3/4 plate numbers, and would be in the 1000 pound club once "very strong experienced".

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[EliKoehn]

How about a chart based on using measured results of competitions, and then adding a modifier for experience level?

https://www.muscleandstrength.com/ar...atural-lifters


If you roll the numbers, a "strong lifter" that is around 190-200lbs (goal of starting strength) would still be hitting those magic 1/2/3/4 plate numbers, and would be in the 1000 pound club once "very strong experienced".

That was a nice reference, thanks for sharing. The Hafthors and Konstantinovs of the world do make that enormous gap between untested elite and tested advanced look much smaller than it is.

I think the numbers here are excellent goals for most naturals to shoot for. I bet with dedication and enough time, a majority could achieve these naturally at a healthy bodyfat level and look far from DYEL in clothes:

"Most of you aren't competitive powerlifters, nor do most of you have the goal of weighing 270 pounds or more. So with that in mind, I want to end by presenting you with an easy set of natural strength standards to remember.

The following goals are perfect for the lifter who wants to get big and strong, but who may never have any interesting in competing in bodybuilding or powerlifting. Reach these goals while focusing on conventional hypertrophy (muscle building) rep ranges, and you will not only add muscle to your frame, but also have the power and strength to back it up.

Bench Press - 300 pounds
Squats - 400 pounds
Deadlift - 500 pounds
Power Clean - 225 pounds
Overhead Press - 225 pounds
Barbell Row - 300 Pounds"

[BiGx5MurF]

My 3 lifts are all consistently around the half way mark between intermediate and advanced.

I'm, 38, I've been working out consistently since I was 15, except for a 5 year gap in my late 20s. I only started barbell lifts consistently about 2 years ago (mostly result of converting from commercial, to home gym). Prior to that, I've mostly only used machines. I also didn't pay any attention to tracking meals until my 30s.

[asrl78]

I don't do 1 rep maxes assuming this is what is shown here, but I am at beginner level if I use my 8 rep max. On deadlift my normal 6 rep set puts me between beginner and novice. Probably about right for me, I started lifting regularly just over two months ago.

[GrouchyUSMC]

Some interesting standards. Since I just picked up a barbell again after three years, I'm at novice/intermediate for most barbell lifts (fortunately sandbags do have some carryover). Advanced to elite on the bodyweight lifts.

Some of the standards seem way off. For example, a 200 pound lifter squatting 320 pounds is intermediate and certainly achievable by anyone with a few years of lifting under their belts. That same 200 pound lifter has to do a pull-up with 77 extra pounds just to reach the same intermediate status though with weighted pull-ups. For bodyweight pull-ups, just 12, which is realistic.

[EiFit91]

Some interesting standards. Since I just picked up a barbell again after three years, I'm at novice/intermediate for most barbell lifts (fortunately sandbags do have some carryover). Advanced to elite on the bodyweight lifts.

Some of the standards seem way off. For example, a 200 pound lifter squatting 320 pounds is intermediate and certainly achievable by anyone with a few years of lifting under their belts. That same 200 pound lifter has to do a pull-up with 77 extra pounds just to reach the same intermediate status though with weighted pull-ups. For bodyweight pull-ups, just 12, which is realistic.

Also really weird is that neutral grip standards are higher than for chinups. I have been looking at neutral grip standards as that's what I am currently doing.

Someone at 180-185 lbs would need to pull +90 for 6 reps to be considered advanced at chinups. For neutral grip pullups that same weight is just "intermediate", yet I always think of chinups as the easiest pullup variant and neutral grip pullups are somewhere in between pronated and supinated grip in terms of difficulty so these numbers should be lower and not higher than the chinup standards... Or am I the weird one?

In that case I may hit "Advanced" after all if I just use the chinup standards, I had +70 for 5 reps last time I was about 180, now here is my incentive to cut for summer lol

[EliKoehn]

Some interesting standards. Since I just picked up a barbell again after three years, I'm at novice/intermediate for most barbell lifts (fortunately sandbags do have some carryover). Advanced to elite on the bodyweight lifts.

Some of the standards seem way off. For example, a 200 pound lifter squatting 320 pounds is intermediate and certainly achievable by anyone with a few years of lifting under their belts. That same 200 pound lifter has to do a pull-up with 77 extra pounds just to reach the same intermediate status though with weighted pull-ups. For bodyweight pull-ups, just 12, which is realistic.

Also really weird is that neutral grip standards are higher than for chinups. I have been looking at neutral grip standards as that's what I am currently doing.

Someone at 180-185 lbs would need to pull +90 for 6 reps to be considered advanced at chinups. For neutral grip pullups that same weight is just "intermediate", yet I always think of chinups as the easiest pullup variant and neutral grip pullups are somewhere in between pronated and supinated grip in terms of difficulty so these numbers should be lower and not higher than the chinup standards... Or am I the weird one?

In that case I may hit "Advanced" after all if I just use the chinup standards, I had +70 for 5 reps last time I was about 180, now here is my incentive to cut for summer lol

FWIW, while both of you guys would blow me out of the water with calisthenics, I actually perform an 80 pound weighted pullup at 235 more easily than a single squat at 320, so to me, that spread of difficulty seems appropriate. I also squat probably as much as or more frequently than pullups at this point.

Also, neutral grip pullups do feel easier to me than supinated chin-ups. I actually thought this was most everyone's experience.

[EiFit91]

FWIW, while both of you guys would blow me out of the water with calisthenics, I actually perform an 80 pound weighted pullup at 235 more easily than a single squat at 320, so to me, that spread of difficulty seems appropriate. I also squat probably as much as or more frequently than pullups at this point.

Also, neutral grip pullups do feel easier to me than supinated chin-ups. I actually thought this was most everyone's experience.

That's very impressive at 235! With a pronated grip?

I just read about it and the claim was that neutral grip pullups are easier to most people because their pulling tends to be arm dominant.

If that’s true this all makes sense as my pulls are very back dominant. My back grows like a weed but I find it hard to add size to my arms. It could also just be that I am not as used to a neutral grip and that’s why I perceive them to be harder.

[EliKoehn]

That's very impressive at 235! With a pronated grip?

I just read about it and the claim was that neutral grip pullups are easier to most people because their pulling tends to be arm dominant.

If that’s true this all makes sense as my pulls are very back dominant. My back grows like a weed but I find it hard to add size to my arms. It could also just be that I am not as used to a neutral grip and that’s why I perceive them to be harder.

Yep, pronated:



Interesting question there, determining how much pulling in compounds is integrally due to the arms relative to the back, since even in cases where they are not concentrically driving the motion, their static contribution could still be significant.

I'd like to think I'm more back than arms, but I'm not sure. My pulls are on the stronger side overall but my back honestly just isn't that wide and I've never managed that, unlike you (going off of your original avi).

[EiFit91]

Yep, pronated:



Interesting question there, determining how much pulling in compounds is integrally due to the arms relative to the back, since even in cases where they are not concentrically driving the motion, their static contribution could still be significant.

I'd like to think I'm more back than arms, but I'm not sure. My pulls are on the stronger side overall but my back honestly just isn't that wide and I've never managed that, unlike you (going off of your original avi).

Honestly looks like you had at least 100 in the tank there!

I added some width since that original avi, may post a new one in a similar pose this summer for comparison. You’re probably wider than me btw, I just have a small waist (when lean lol, «accidentally» dirty bulked for a while and regret it now) which makes it seem like I am wide. In clothes I am DYEL mode