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    New frequency study

    Some quick and painless reading


    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35069251/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...QuGkglrYnBhyIg

    Full


    Conclusion- higher frequency showed no benefit
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    Some quick and painless reading


    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35069251/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...QuGkglrYnBhyIg

    Full


    Conclusion- higher frequency showed no benefit
    As long as volume and intensity is matched
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    I'm curious how these studies precisely define "trained individuals," since as we know, the diminishing returns might make a meaningful difference depending upon whether "trained" means early intermediate, or early advanced, for instance.

    Only read the abstract as I am at work, in case the definition was buried deeper.
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    As an exercise physiology grad, I learned early that studies sometimes do not sufficiently examine “trained” vs “untrained “ nor do they account for what type of training program folks were taking part in (nor diets and nutrition ) prior to the study.

    It’s a good idea for a trainer to to experiment on his own.
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    9 weeks gained 14 percent on the bench and 19 percent on the squat. trained

    If they were trained i would consider 5 percent amazing.
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    I've always been intrigued with advanced/elite lifters utilizing high frequency in some capacity.

    I think the lower bodyweight guys can get away with it more so than heavyweights.

    I'm not sure as of late, but I know Alex Kang (equipped IPF lifter) trains squat bench and deadlift 3-4x a week. He has a monster pull too.
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    If I could start over id never go over 3-4 days per week in the weight room. I'm positive that I could have hit my full potential with that frequency. These studies are never perfect but I've never seen any extra benefit with higher frequency and I def don't enjoy it.
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    If I could start over id never go over 3-4 days per week in the weight room. I'm positive that I could have hit my full potential with that frequency. These studies are never perfect but I've never seen any extra benefit with higher frequency and I def don't enjoy it.

    Same here. I just posted this yesterday, frequently calling for adrenal gland response is something not discussed. Even though you train different muscle groups, that demand, that stress, that fight or flight response, day in, day out….it’s going to catch up to you.


    I really think the best thing I ever did was this every other day upper/lower +arms split. I’m always recovered and I always have a day off before and after each session which is great for real life responsibilities as well as enthusiasm and higher intensity, higher volume training. It’s easy to say “do more, rest tomorrow “
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    Registered User TAWS6's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by coachcalande View Post
    Same here. I just posted this yesterday, frequently calling for adrenal gland response is something not discussed. Even though you train different muscle groups, that demand, that stress, that fight or flight response, day in, day out….it’s going to catch up to you.


    I really think the best thing I ever did was this every other day upper/lower +arms split. I’m always recovered and I always have a day off before and after each session which is great for real life responsibilities as well as enthusiasm and higher intensity, higher volume training. It’s easy to say “do more, rest tomorrow “
    Yup exactly. Connective tissue gives out.

    The best thing I did was switch to specialization cycles. Bring up 1-2 body parts, maintain everything else for 6 weeks and rotate. I still use upper/lower to program though. I like that setup with weekends off. I just always burnt out with high frequency. Eventually I accepted the fact that I'm not brining up everything at once and gave up on 5-6 day splits.
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    If I could start over id never go over 3-4 days per week in the weight room. I'm positive that I could have hit my full potential with that frequency. These studies are never perfect but I've never seen any extra benefit with higher frequency and I def don't enjoy it.
    If I were able to train for longer I would do the same. The only time of day I can train is early morning, so training longer means waking earlier and potentially getting less sleep and/or having less quality time with the Mrs. As it is, 4x per week usually works well, but if I want to push volume I prefer adding a 5th day.
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    Just a statistics comment.

    With N = 13 and N = 8 your probability of detecting an effect that is actually there is very, very small unless the underlying effect of changing training frequency is really large.

    This study is way underpowered to study this question

    Btw I personally completely agree you could probably easily hit your genetic max on 3-4 days a week in the weight room.
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    Registered User TAWS6's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EiFit91 View Post
    Just a statistics comment.

    With N = 13 and N = 8 your probability of detecting an effect that is actually there is very, very small unless the underlying effect of changing training frequency is really large.

    This study is way underpowered to study this question

    Btw I personally completely agree you could probably easily hit your genetic max on 3-4 days a week in the weight room.

    Yup .. The people who go crazy with frequency or volume eventually come back around to a good middle ground. Every so often YouTube/instagram fitness needs something new and exciting.
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    Yup .. The people who go crazy with frequency or volume eventually come back around to a good middle ground. Every so often YouTube/instagram fitness needs something new and exciting.
    I cannot for the life of me understand how someone can train HARD 5-6 days a week and recover from it. I would get injured 100%, my connective tissue would never be able to handle it.
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    Originally Posted by EiFit91 View Post
    I cannot for the life of me understand how someone can train HARD 5-6 days a week and recover from it. I would get injured 100%, my connective tissue would never be able to handle it.

    Lots of people do and just spin their wheels. Even Layne switched to specialization cycles and he promoted some crazy stuff for a while.
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    Training 3-4 days a week, workouts get absurdly long eventually which I think eats into recovery more.

    If you can fit your volume needs into 3/4 days a week awesome, but a lot of people can’t without creating an absurd amount of systemic fatigue.
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    I’m usually out in about 1 hr and 15 mins absolute max with spec cycles. So not that bad. If I set up the specialized groups on their own day and had a separate maintenance day I bet I could cut some more time off. I just can’t get motivated for day an arm and calf day lol or a ham and shoulder day.
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    Originally Posted by FurtadoZ9 View Post
    I've always been intrigued with advanced/elite lifters utilizing high frequency in some capacity.

    I think the lower bodyweight guys can get away with it more so than heavyweights.

    I'm not sure as of late, but I know Alex Kang (equipped IPF lifter) trains squat bench and deadlift 3-4x a week. He has a monster pull too.
    I think that's maybe just a hang up off previous biases.
    There's plenty of 120s hitting 3 to 4x.

    Obvs that's not super heavyweight, but super heavy is a pretty small class to draw data from.
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    Originally Posted by FurtadoZ9 View Post
    I've always been intrigued with advanced/elite lifters utilizing high frequency in some capacity.

    I think the lower bodyweight guys can get away with it more so than heavyweights.

    I'm not sure as of late, but I know Alex Kang (equipped IPF lifter) trains squat bench and deadlift 3-4x a week. He has a monster pull too.
    On the flip side, you had guys like Mark Chaillet, Don Reinhoudt, Doyle Kenady, Doug Furnas and so on who trained the powerlifts each once a week and that was basically it.

    The ultimate key is finding out what works for you and rolling with it, in my opinion.
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    Originally Posted by EiFit91 View Post
    I cannot for the life of me understand how someone can train HARD 5-6 days a week and recover from it. I would get injured 100%, my connective tissue would never be able to handle it.
    Positive thinking - Some guys are great at periodization and can program effectively for themselves.

    Negative thinking - Most guys aren't actually training hard on those days, and could be training a lot harder than they think.

    Choose which way you want to roll with it.
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    Lots of people do and just spin their wheels. Even Layne switched to specialization cycles and he promoted some crazy stuff for a while.
    I thought six day programs have you going heavy, low reps 3 times and lighter, high reps 3 times.
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    Originally Posted by asrl78 View Post
    I thought six day programs have you going heavy, low reps 3 times and lighter, high reps 3 times.
    Lighter doesn't mean easier.
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    Originally Posted by asrl78 View Post
    I thought six day programs have you going heavy, low reps 3 times and lighter, high reps 3 times.
    When I was lifting 6 days it basically turned into a heavy light. Going heavy 6 days is a bad idea imo.
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  23. #23
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    I think that's maybe just a hang up off previous biases.
    There's plenty of 120s hitting 3 to 4x.

    Obvs that's not super heavyweight, but super heavy is a pretty small class to draw data from.
    3-4x for each lift? Like, benching 4x a week, squatting/deadlifting 3x a week, etc.
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