"Junk Volume"

[pinfante]

What do you guys consider "junk volume" seems like everyone has a different definition of such.

[air2fakie]

Extra crap people do towards the end of their workout that doesn't help progress or gains. For ex and with some exceptions, it'd usually be the last 10-20 sets for hi volume novices that do 25-40 set workouts.

[coachcalande]

What do you guys consider "junk volume" seems like everyone has a different definition of such.

Junk volume to me would be :

1- any set performed with inadequate intensity of effort, too light, too sloppy, failing to stimulate anything worthwhile. Simply just wear and tear on the body.

2- I do think the term is wildly overused though. We know that “volume dose” makes a significant difference for hypertrophy so repeatedly giving the body hard sets usually in rep range from 3-20 does SOMETHING of use and won’t make you smaller. The question is, where exactly is the law of diminishing returns in terms of recovery, overuse and injury?

[BeginnerGainz]

Example:

Incline bench 6-8, 10-12, both to failure.

Then…

Hammer chest press, 6-8, 10-12, both to failure.

That is the main work of a proper chest day.

Then doing a bunch of dumb sh!t like cable flies, pec deck, etc would be considered the junk volume. The growth stimulus has been achieved but now you’re just dicking around accomplishing nothing except eating into your recovery.

[pinfante]

Example:

Incline bench 6-8, 10-12, both to failure.

Then…

Hammer chest press, 6-8, 10-12, both to failure.

That is the main work of a proper chest day.

Then doing a bunch of dumb sh!t like cable flies, pec deck, etc would be considered the junk volume. The growth stimulus has been achieved but now you’re just dicking around accomplishing nothing except eating into your recovery.

You think 4 sets to 1-2 reps in reserve is enough stimulus?
I say 1-2 reps in reserve becuase your average gym goer is not going to failure unspotted. lol... and nobody is ever reaching true failure on squats... that would suck... lol.. ever actually see someone fail on squats? I did once, long long time ago. you just drop...

[BeginnerGainz]

You think 4 sets to 1-2 reps in reserve is enough stimulus?
I say 1-2 reps in reserve becuase your average gym goer is not going to failure unspotted. lol... and nobody is ever reaching true failure on squats... that would suck... lol.. ever actually see someone fail on squats? I did once, long long time ago. you just drop...

In a word, yes.

Long answer..,

Obviously use best judgement. If hitting failure means possibly endangering yourself then by all means stop 1-2 reps short (I do). Not many people are good judges of what true failure is.

[coachcalande]

You think 4 sets to 1-2 reps in reserve is enough stimulus?
I say 1-2 reps in reserve becuase your average gym goer is not going to failure unspotted. lol... and nobody is ever reaching true failure on squats... that would suck... lol.. ever actually see someone fail on squats? I did once, long long time ago. you just drop...

Multiple studies have shown that there’s a dose response.

The min effective dose appears to be, on average, around five sets PER WEEK…but there is no conclusive max effective dosage. In other words, more is better BUT…with diminished returns…set 10 is less impactful than sets 1-5 for example…and certainly set 20 is less impactful….yet taps into recovery and can cause tendinitis and bursitis etc.

[pinfante]

Multiple studies have shown that there’s a dose response.

The min effective dose appears to be, on average, around five sets PER WEEK…but there is no conclusive max effective dosage. In other words, more is better BUT…with diminished returns…set 10 is less impactful than sets 1-5 for example…and certainly set 20 is less impactful….yet taps into recovery and can cause tendinitis and bursitis etc.

I also believe it is different per muscle group. Side and rear delts require a ton of volume in high rep ranges. Calves too somewhat, but calves are tough and very person to person. Abdominals can handle a lot too..

[MyEgoProblem]

Junk volume is....

... Work that isn't contributing to your positive adaptations. And it's only causing fatigue for no benefit.

What point does this occur?
Different for everyone. But most people don't actually do much/any junk volume unless they are on a bad bro split

Prob starts around 8~10 hard sets for one muscle group in a session for most people tho.

Caveats been different training paradigms that (lol to failure bro) such as dynamic work, lower intra set fatigue work ect.

[croydon86]

I also believe it is different per muscle group. Side and rear delts require a ton of volume in high rep ranges. Calves too somewhat, but calves are tough and very person to person. Abdominals can handle a lot too..

That's where MYO reps come in

[CW47]

nobody is ever reaching true failure on squats... that would suck... lol.. ever actually see someone fail on squats? I did once, long long time ago. you just drop...

Sorry, not much to add to the main discussion since it's already been covered pretty well.

I too went to failure on squats once upon a time. Literally could not move an inch out of the bottom with 95 pounds on my back, lmao. Someone lifted the bar off of my back. And then I still couldn't stand up even without any weight on my back. Had to pull myself up. I felt that workout for a couple of weeks and have been sure not to do it again, lol. But still it was valuable to learn how far I can actually push myself.

[Tommy W.]

Unnecessary exercises and exercises performed incorrectly or just overall excessive volume.

[BeginnerGainz]

Sorry, not much to add to the main discussion since it's already been covered pretty well.

I too went to failure on squats once upon a time. Literally could not move an inch out of the bottom with 95 pounds on my back, lmao. Someone lifted the bar off of my back. And then I still couldn't stand up even without any weight on my back. Had to pull myself up. I felt that workout for a couple of weeks and have been sure not to do it again, lol. But still it was valuable to learn how far I can actually push myself.

I generally don’t recommend going to failure on exercises where the lower back is in a vulnerable position. I felt that need repeating.

[CW47]

I generally don’t recommend going to failure on exercises where the lower back is in a vulnerable position. I felt that need repeating.

Yes, of course. I agree it's a bad idea. If a person wanted to intelligently push to failure they would do it on something other than squats. I just didn't know any better at the time.

[chax1]

What do you guys consider "junk volume" seems like everyone has a different definition of such.

any thing after 6-8 sets per muscle

[pinfante]

any thing after 6-8 sets per muscle

Maybe if they are all drop sets to failure multiple times. Thats sounds like an excuse to do sub par workouts with little effort...

I can say this from someone who has been training for about 25 years at this point and is probably in the top 1% of physiques compared to the general population. I used to do a lot of junk volume but that was when I was doing 140 working sets a week. Iv since backed off to 85-100 (i dont include core training in my set count) and thats ideal. Mostly by not skipping rest days which is what i used to train 7 days a week 365 not i try to limit my self to 5 days. Attached is what my average set per week is. I runa 9 day split so every monday isnt the same etc so week to week it could vary... But unless you are a beginner 6-8 sets a week isnt enough

[TheShadowMan]

Anything done at planet fitness.

[SuicideGripMe]

Junk volume just refers to movements or sets or reps without actual purpose to me.

Greasing the groove may seem like junk volume because the loads are low but it is far from that.

Now, a beginner doing 5 drop sets on bench starting with 95 lbs on the bar and then doing incline, hammer press, decline hammer press, cable flies, cable crossovers, dip machine... that's junk volume.

Now, it's not so black and white. If I am training a young athlete and he WANTS to do crazy drop sets or some intensity stuff, I can add a little at the end to make him feel "hardcore" and keep him engaged in the gym. That work may be junk volume in term of physical development but may have a great deal of carryover to his mental focus and interest in weights.