Better for skinny fat individuals to bulk instead due to higher rates of muscle growt

[Animal2692]

Every time a skinny fat person asks whether they should bulk or cut, they always get multiple answers. Some people will tell them to cut, others to bulk. Many youtube videos also vary in responses. However, a key element came to mind that I don't hear talked about enough.

Skinny fat individuals inherently have a very good rate of muscle gain. If you take an advanced lifter and a skinny fat person and put them both on a lean bulk to gain no more than 2lbs in a month, the skinny fat person will gain more muscle in proportion to fat compared to the advanced lifter. The advanced lifter is already well into diminishing returns and the growth response just isn't there like it used to be. So in essence, a skinny fat person on a lean bulk can potentially recomp not by necessarily losing fat, but because they are adding more lean mass than fat mass which brings their bodyfat % down, the lean mass would offset any fat gain. Worst case they gain equal fat to muscle where they actually wouldn't look fatter after lean bulking. If they were to cut instead, it would be like robbing a gas station and they're leaving a lot of gains on the table, it's hard to carve a pebble.

All I'm saying is, if a skinny fat person went on a lean bulk, they actually wouldn't have to worry about getting even fatter.

[air2fakie]

All I'm saying is, if a skinny fat person went on a lean bulk, they actually wouldn't have to worry about getting even fatter.

I know you love generalizations, but skinny fat people can get fatter on any bulk just like anyone else, the "lean" aspect would just mean they'd get fatter slower. The workout itself and execution thereof is what's missing from your equation.

[Animal2692]

I know you love generalizations, but skinny fat people can get fatter on any bulk just like anyone else, the "lean" aspect would just mean they'd get fatter slower. The workout itself and execution thereof is what's missing from your equation.

They would gain some fat no doubt, my point is the muscle they gain could potentially outweigh or offset the fat gain if their bulk is slow enough. They would gain fat, but not at the expense of their bodyfat % going up. If you gain 10lbs of muscle and 5lbs of fat in a year, you've actually lowered your bf %. Absolute bodyfat is in my opinion almost meaningless, whereas % reveals more of the story. Since they're skinny, they don't have much muscle to begin with and therefore their potential to gain muscle is huge which can be taken advantage of.

This is all in the context that they train right of course.

[EliKoehn]

I agree with you OP, but is this a controversial topic? I was under the impression that it was already part of the "prevailing wisdom."

[EiFit91]

Every time a skinny fat person asks whether they should bulk or cut, they always get multiple answers. Some people will tell them to cut, others to bulk. Many youtube videos also vary in responses. However, a key element came to mind that I don't hear talked about enough.

Skinny fat individuals inherently have a very good rate of muscle gain. If you take an advanced lifter and a skinny fat person and put them both on a lean bulk to gain no more than 2lbs in a month, the skinny fat person will gain more muscle in proportion to fat compared to the advanced lifter. The advanced lifter is already well into diminishing returns and the growth response just isn't there like it used to be. So in essence, a skinny fat person on a lean bulk can potentially recomp not by necessarily losing fat, but because they are adding more lean mass than fat mass which brings their bodyfat % down, the lean mass would offset any fat gain. Worst case they gain equal fat to muscle where they actually wouldn't look fatter after lean bulking. If they were to cut instead, it would be like robbing a gas station and they're leaving a lot of gains on the table, it's hard to carve a pebble.

All I'm saying is, if a skinny fat person went on a lean bulk, they actually wouldn't have to worry about getting even fatter.

Have any of you guys ever seen someone bulk and have their BF% go down? I guess it’s possible in theory but one would have to have otherworldly discipline and/or insane genetics to actually pull it off IMO. Just a short while of eating too much and your BF% will increase… seems to me that the body is very good at adding fat and not as good at adding muscle

[Animal2692]

I agree with you OP, but is this a controversial topic? I was under the impression that it was already part of the "prevailing wisdom."

I couldn't really find a clear cut answer on the skinny fat dilemma. Some people say to cut, others say to bulk. It wasn't until recently when I saw Scott Herman's video on this topic that he brought up the rate of muscle growth and how it can be used to a skinny fat person's advantage to offset the fat they would gain on a lean bulk. I have not seen that mentioned anywhere else regarding the skinny fat dilemma. I just thought it was brilliant and wonder if anyone else can relate

[paulinkansas]

You don't look like Adam Sandler anymore. Now you look like a muscular Adam Sandler.

[air2fakie]

They would gain some fat no doubt, my point is the muscle they gain could potentially outweigh or offset the fat gain if their bulk is slow enough. They would gain fat, but not at the expense of their bodyfat % going up. If you gain 10lbs of muscle and 5lbs of fat in a year, you've actually lowered your bf %. Absolute bodyfat is in my opinion almost meaningless, whereas % reveals more of the story. Since they're skinny, they don't have much muscle to begin with and therefore their potential to gain muscle is huge which can be taken advantage of.

This is all in the context that they train right of course.

I'm never sure where these "educational" posts of yours come from, or the purpose - but that's besides the point. People should lean bulk if it support their goals, which does work well for many skinny fat people.

But not all skinny fat people carry the same amount or location of fat, or have the same goals. Some with a lot of "skinny fat" may not want to gain any fat initially regardless of whether they gain an equivalent amount of muscle. In that case they should cut or maintain while they start to train. I think it's always best to see a picture and ask about someone's goals before specifically advising them to cut, bulk or maintain.

People don't gain muscle at theoretical rates.

[EliKoehn]

I couldn't really find a clear cut answer on the skinny fat dilemma. Some people say to cut, others say to bulk. It wasn't until recently when I saw Scott Herman's video on this topic that he brought up the rate of muscle growth and how it can be used to a skinny fat person's advantage to offset the fat they would gain on a lean bulk. I have not seen that mentioned anywhere else regarding the skinny fat dilemma. I just thought it was brilliant and wonder if anyone else can relate

Well, in my own opinion, I think that the biggest issue with these questions is short-ranged thinking and expectations. "Skinny fat" as a title bespeaks someone basically untrained and out of shape, obviously not the situation anyone who trains with seriousness for an appreciable amount of time will remain in for long. Whatever short term recomp advantages that offers by way of marginal progress ought to be overshadowed by the slower, harder gains to be made after "skinny fat" is long surpassed.

And as it pertains to deficit/surplus, I'm in the camp that opines a surplus is favorable for beginners who lack muscle and want to get strong, unless they're already obese. I also think more people than not can train up to 200+ and are too afraid of gaining a little weight to try, which I think is a minority opinion on this forum.

[Animal2692]

I'm never sure where these "educational" posts of yours come from, or the purpose - but that's besides the point. People should lean bulk if it support their goals, which does work well for many skinny fat people.

But not all skinny fat people carry the same amount or location of fat, or have the same goals. Some with a lot of "skinny fat" may not want to gain any fat initially regardless of whether they gain an equivalent amount of muscle. In that case they should cut or maintain while they start to train. I think it's always best to see a picture and ask about someone's goals before specifically advising them to cut, bulk or maintain.

People don't gain muscle at theoretical rates.

It's more of a loose idea, something worth considering when deciding whether to bulk or cut as a skinny fat person. By skinny fat I'm referring to no more than 22% bodyfat or so. If someone is obese I would not tell them to bulk whatsoever. If they don't want to gain anymore fat regardless if they gain the same amount of muscle as you've mentioned, that's fine. But for example if someone doesn't mind staying at 20% bodyfat but they're afraid to lean bulk thinking they're going to climb up to 25% or more, that's where this idea of muscle growth rate can come into play as a way to reassure them that they can lean bulk without their bodyfat % necessarily going up...at least for a good while and that they may even bring their bodyfat % down as they lean bulk due to lean mass outpacing fat gain.

I saw this other video by the way by Revival Fitness mentioning how one of his clients or something literally lean bulked into abs. I personally used to think that wouldn't even be possible but now it makes sense

[AdamWW]

IMO it depends what bothers you more: the fat, or the lack of muscle?

If your MAIN issue with your starting point is your excess fat, I'd say eat at maintenance and recomp a little bit, then enter a surplus.

If your main issue is you lack muscle, you can go ahead and eat in a reasonable surplus.

[desslok]

Skinny fat individuals inherently have a very good rate of muscle gain.

Yes, this is a universal truth since the OP states it.

[EliKoehn]

I can only speak for myself, but I don't see what's so unreasonable about OP's posts to be honest... Seems like the guy only comes on here like twice a year, and each time it seems he's greeted with hostility. He's not being pretentious or saying anything unreasonable, just had a thought and asking for opinions.

[Animal2692]

Yes, this is a universal truth since the OP states it.

I said that in the context that they have a very good rate of muscle gain relevant to advanced lifters or their future advanced self. If you start off untrained (skinny fat folks are usually untrained) and you do everything right, you can make about 50% or so of your gains in the first year alone. Whatever fat gain was made that year would either be outpaced or offset if surplus isn't too high. It's this idea that I don't see being talked about enough anywhere really

[air2fakie]

It's more of a loose idea, something worth considering when deciding whether to bulk or cut as a skinny fat person. By skinny fat I'm referring to no more than 22% bodyfat or so. If someone is obese I would not tell them to bulk whatsoever. If they don't want to gain anymore fat regardless if they gain the same amount of muscle as you've mentioned, that's fine. But for example if someone doesn't mind staying at 20% bodyfat but they're afraid to lean bulk thinking they're going to climb up to 25% or more, that's where this idea of muscle growth rate can come into play as a way to reassure them that they can lean bulk without their bodyfat % necessarily going up...at least for a good while and that they may even bring their bodyfat % down as they lean bulk due to lean mass outpacing fat gain.

I saw this other video by the way by Revival Fitness mentioning how one of his clients or something literally lean bulked into abs. I personally used to think that wouldn't even be possible but now it makes sense

By definition, a lot of people who are skinny fat are thin in general but carry noticeable weight in their tummy and have puberty breasts. I'd be reluctant to recommend a bulk for these individuals. That's the problem with making gross generalizations.

I mean, if you just said "skinny" instead of "skinny fat" everywhere it'd be less inaccurate even if no more original. As always, you should be reluctant to draw new groundbreaking conclusions every time you watch a new video.

[Animal2692]

You don't look like Adam Sandler anymore. Now you look like a muscular Adam Sandler.

It's because I haven't been posting 😂

[faithbrah]

Have any of you guys ever seen someone bulk and have their BF% go down? I guess it’s possible in theory but one would have to have otherworldly discipline and/or insane genetics to actually pull it off IMO. Just a short while of eating too much and your BF% will increase… seems to me that the body is very good at adding fat and not as good at adding muscle

naturally? no

enhanced? sure

[EiFit91]

naturally? no

enhanced? sure

Maybe OP should make a thread saying «all skinny fat guys need to hop on dat dere»?

[GeneralSerpant]

Your body fat is an energy source that works in spite of calorie deficits, and you can use it as if to supplement with your ingested calories but at its own rate, and only so much without burning muscle too, just like how carbs and oil have their own burn methods.

[njay43256]

Every time a skinny fat person asks whether they should bulk or cut, they always get multiple answers. Some people will tell them to cut, others to bulk. Many youtube videos also vary in responses. However, a key element came to mind that I don't hear talked about enough.

Skinny fat individuals inherently have a very good rate of muscle gain. If you take an advanced lifter and a skinny fat person and put them both on a lean bulk to gain no more than 2lbs in a month, the skinny fat person will gain more muscle in proportion to fat compared to the advanced lifter. The advanced lifter is already well into diminishing returns and the growth response just isn't there like it used to be. So in essence, a skinny fat person on a lean bulk can potentially recomp not by necessarily losing fat, but because they are adding more lean mass than fat mass which brings their bodyfat % down, the lean mass would offset any fat gain. Worst case they gain equal fat to muscle where they actually wouldn't look fatter after lean bulking. If they were to cut instead, it would be like robbing a gas station and they're leaving a lot of gains on the table, it's hard to carve a pebble.

All I'm saying is, if a skinny fat person went on a lean bulk, they actually wouldn't have to worry about getting even fatter.

Skinny fat means they are lacking in lean muscle mass. Building up lean muscle mass with allow for more calorie burn throughout the day (more muscle = higher calorie burn) so the focus should be on building muscle. A 40/30/30 diet and a solid workout program with weight training will get the best results.

[Strawng]

Have any of you guys ever seen someone bulk and have their BF% go down? I guess it’s possible in theory but one would have to have otherworldly discipline and/or insane genetics to actually pull it off IMO. Just a short while of eating too much and your BF% will increase… seems to me that the body is very good at adding fat and not as good at adding muscle

I've bulked at a relatively fast pace and had my BF% go down & I'm 100% natty. Srs. There were a huge number of factors at play here in my favor tho: I was coming off a 3-4 month long layoff from the gym after previously lifting for years, I had just lost a massive amount of weight and had only gained some fat/organ tissue back in anorexia recovery, & I have great genetics (parents were both semi-pro athletes & dad was a lifelong PLer BBer).

[desslok]

I've bulked at a relatively fast pace and had my BF% go down & I'm 100% natty. Srs. There were a huge number of factors at play here in my favor tho: I was coming off a 3-4 month long layoff from the gym after previously lifting for years, I had just lost a massive amount of weight and had only gained some fat/organ tissue back in anorexia recovery, & I have great genetics (parents were both semi-pro athletes & dad was a lifelong PLer BBer).

Yeah, not impossible, but an outlier

[AdamWW]

Skinny fat means they are lacking in lean muscle mass. Building up lean muscle mass with allow for more calorie burn throughout the day (more muscle = higher calorie burn) so the focus should be on building muscle. A 40/30/30 diet and a solid workout program with weight training will get the best results.

Macro ratios are so 1997

[EiFit91]

I've bulked at a relatively fast pace and had my BF% go down & I'm 100% natty. Srs. There were a huge number of factors at play here in my favor tho: I was coming off a 3-4 month long layoff from the gym after previously lifting for years, I had just lost a massive amount of weight and had only gained some fat/organ tissue back in anorexia recovery, & I have great genetics (parents were both semi-pro athletes & dad was a lifelong PLer BBer).

Mirin hard