Fierce 5 questions

[Sprinter91]

Hey guys. Got some questions
Im reading through f5 forum, am at page 67 so got a long way till ive readed it all
Have been away for along time and my lifting also stopped for a long time. Now ive got covid but once Im cleared to go out again ill be hitting the gym again. In a caloric deficit. So best thought was to go for fierce 5.
Now since thread is closed. its been created in 2013 and modified unti 2016 when the thread was closed.
Are there any changes you would say are in benefit of the routine? Like just do it as it is still or some changes you think are a positive change to F5?

Like the subs, ive seen in the beginning that hsck squats are a good sub for FS but they arent in the official subs, or instead of pendlay chest supported tbar rows but horizontal ones (found a gym who has them just like a reverse BP)
Im still where the f5 was incline instead of ohp as main exercise and ohp was the sub, still hoping to read when he changes that again, any benefits into keeping ohp rather than incline or am i overthinking it?

But yeah, are there more superior exercises I could do now? Like Hack squats, a form of lat pulldown shown by Coach Kassem which is said to hit the lats better, bench press with a neutral grip bar, or best stick to basics?

As I said, ive been away and haven't been up to date for a long time thats why Im rereading the whole but its gonna take a while. And wanna get back into it thats why I am dusting off my account here and start a log once I can
Anyways happy new year all, thank you kindly for taking your time to read this and maybe help out

[TAWS6]

Read through the comprehensive thread. Nothing has changed. The programs will get you from novice to late intermediate as quick as humanly possible. There are no secrets or anything new.

[Sprinter91]

Read through the comprehensive thread. Nothing has changed. The programs will get you from novice to late intermediate as quick as humanly possible. There are no secrets or anything new.

Alright will read there then, thanks man

[FurtadoZ9]

Hack squat removes the stabilizer component from front squats, so it's not the best substitute. But if you are swapping out exercises because you have limitations - it's better than nothing.

Like you mentioned don't over think it. Swap in what you are comfortable with and more importantly, what you will be consistent with.

[BeginnerGainz]

Hacks are infinitely superior to front squats. Unless you like choking yourself with a bar and having your back or abs give out before your legs. Plus you’re already doing a back squat (also better than front squats) so…

Pendlays are meh too, nothing wrong with using seal rows in their place. I’d actually argue they are superior in every way. Seated cable rows are good too but not with the baby “V” handle.

OHP with straight barbell is meh as well. It is more of a trap exercise than an actual shoulder exercise so you have the right idea of switching to incline.

Anyway, off my soap box…here is how I would change fierce 5

A
Seated leg curls 3x15 (before squats)
Back squats 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Pronated grip chest supported row (focus on scapular retraction 3x10
Triceps 3x12
Face pulls or some kinda rear delt exercise 3x15
Calves 3x8 (if you do them right, higher reps simply aren’t necessary)

B
Leg press or hack squat 3x8
Incline bench or incline DB 3x8
RDL or SLDL (trap bars are the tits for RDLs, by the way) 3x8
Some kind of lateral raise 3x15
Neutral or chin grip lat pulldown 3x10
Biceps 3x10
Abs 3x15

[Sprinter91]

Hacks are infinitely superior to front squats. Unless you like choking yourself with a bar and having your back or abs give out before your legs. Plus you’re already doing a back squat (also better than front squats) so…

Pendlays are meh too, nothing wrong with using seal rows in their place. I’d actually argue they are superior in every way. Seated cable rows are good too but not with the baby “V” handle.

OHP with straight barbell is meh as well. It is more of a trap exercise than an actual shoulder exercise so you have the right idea of switching to incline.

Anyway, off my soap box…here is how I would change fierce 5

A
Seated leg curls 3x15 (before squats)
Back squats 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Pronated grip chest supported row (focus on scapular retraction 3x10
Triceps 3x12
Face pulls or some kinda rear delt exercise 3x15
Calves 3x8 (if you do them right, higher reps simply aren’t necessary)

B
Leg press or hack squat 3x8
Incline bench or incline DB 3x8
RDL or SLDL (trap bars are the tits for RDLs, by the way) 3x8
Some kind of lateral raise 3x15
Neutral or chin grip lat pulldown 3x10
Biceps 3x10
Abs 3x15

Thanks, I kinda dig those changes. Yeah I can do seal rows and the normal tbar ones and when I was reading on Davis his thread he liked them too. Took ages finding a gym who has them just like hack squats

[croydon86]

Hacks are infinitely superior to front squats. Unless you like choking yourself with a bar and having your back or abs give out before your legs. Plus you’re already doing a back squat (also better than front squats) so…

Pendlays are meh too, nothing wrong with using seal rows in their place. I’d actually argue they are superior in every way. Seated cable rows are good too but not with the baby “V” handle.

OHP with straight barbell is meh as well. It is more of a trap exercise than an actual shoulder exercise so you have the right idea of switching to incline.

Anyway, off my soap box…here is how I would change fierce 5

A
Seated leg curls 3x15 (before squats)
Back squats 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Pronated grip chest supported row (focus on scapular retraction 3x10
Triceps 3x12
Face pulls or some kinda rear delt exercise 3x15
Calves 3x8 (if you do them right, higher reps simply aren’t necessary)

B
Leg press or hack squat 3x8
Incline bench or incline DB 3x8
RDL or SLDL (trap bars are the tits for RDLs, by the way) 3x8
Some kind of lateral raise 3x15
Neutral or chin grip lat pulldown 3x10
Biceps 3x10
Abs 3x15

Interested to know why you wouldn't sub overhead press with another direct shoulder movement such as seated dumbbell press for example?

[TAWS6]

Interested to know why you wouldn't sub overhead press with another direct shoulder movement such as seated dumbbell press for example?

I use to do ohp a lot. Ever since I switched to upright rows and laterals I’ve made much better progress. It’s probably because bench press hits the front delts effectively and ohp is an awkward movement unless you have access to a hammer machine. I feel like most people spend a lot of time trying to move their head out of the way of the bar and compromise the lift for hypertrophy purposes.

[croydon86]

I use to do ohp a lot. Ever since I switched to upright rows and laterals I’ve made much better progress. It’s probably because bench press hits the front delts effectively and ohp is an awkward movement unless you have access to a hammer machine. I feel like most people spend a lot of time trying to move their head out of the way of the bar and compromise the lift for hypertrophy purposes.

Interesting. I haven't done upright rows for years. I stopped doing them as used to aggravate my wrist pain but might try them again.

I'm used to performing them as they are common with strength programs but I fully appreciate there are better shoulder exercises when it comes to hypertrophy and/or if you just want a solid shoulder exercise and don't want to worry about your core/lower back etc.

What is your views on the seated dumbbell press through? Or even Arnie press?

[TAWS6]

Interesting. I haven't done upright rows for years. I stopped doing them as used to aggravate my wrist pain but might try them again.

I'm used to performing them as they are common with strength programs but I fully appreciate there are better shoulder exercises when it comes to hypertrophy and/or if you just want a solid shoulder exercise and don't want to worry about your core/lower back etc.

What is your views on the seated dumbbell press through? Or even Arnie press?

The key to making upright rows work is to not pull too high. I use a wider grip. Ohp is good for strength for sure. Db press is okay but tris tend to be a limiter. I much prefer the hammer press over barbell or dbs. For hypertrophy I think uprights + lateral raise is superior.

[croydon86]

The key to making upright rows work is to not pull too high. I use a wider grip

Nice, i'll try it out this week

[Sprinter91]

The key to making upright rows work is to not pull too high. I use a wider grip. Ohp is good for strength for sure. Db press is okay but tris tend to be a limiter. I much prefer the hammer press over barbell or dbs. For hypertrophy I think uprights + lateral raise is superior.

Nice, this is good info for when I jump to intermediate someday
Hammer strength shoulder press you mean right? I think we got those in the gym (incline, shoulder, etc)

[TAWS6]

Nice, this is good info for when I jump to intermediate someday
Hammer strength shoulder press you mean right? I think we got those in the gym (incline, shoulder, etc)

Yup. Big fan of the hammer strength machines. Wish I owned one.