Which machines are MUCH better than cable or free weight alternatives?

[John748]

Generally most gym equipment falls into one of three categories. Non-cable machines (both selectorized and plate loaded), cable machines, and free weight. There are examples of all three to cover pretty much every muscle and muscle group, but for some movements one of the three is just much better.

Which non-cable machines are so good that they are much better than their cable or free weight alternatives?

Edit: I should have made the point of the post clearer. I'm trying to decide which machines to prioritise buying in a small gym I'm setting up. There will already be free weights and cable machines, but there is limited room for about 3-4 machines (depending on their size). I want to know which machines I should prioritise over any others. I'm not looking for a brand of machine, but more the type of machine. E.g. high row, or pullover.

[Tommy W.]

Generally most gym equipment falls into one of three categories. Non-cable machines (both selectorized and plate loaded), cable machines, and free weight. There are examples of all three to cover pretty much every muscle and muscle group, but for some movements one of the three is just much better.

Which non-cable machines are so good that they are much better than their cable or free weight alternatives?

None. You want to use all the tools in the toolbox. Hammer Strength stuff is probably the best as far as equipment away from free weights and cables.

[John748]

None. You want to use all the tools in the toolbox. Hammer Strength stuff is probably the best as far as equipment away from free weights and cables.

I should have made the point of the post clearer. I'm trying to decide which machines to prioritise buying in a small gym I'm setting up. There will already be free weights and cable machines, but there is limited room for about 3-4 machines (depending on their size). I want to know which machines I should prioritise over any others. I'm not looking for a brand of machine, but more the type of machine. E.g. high row, or pullover.

[Camarija]

Hi, I've been reading your threads and I don't understand where you're coming from.

Would you mind if I asked you some questions?

1.
How long have you been consistently training without breaks?

If you had enough experience, you would more or less understand the equipment required for most programs, and which extra equipment would make life easier. It feels like you don't have this awareness. For example, you were considering a dedicated shoulder press machine before something more essential like a leg curl machine. Something isn't adding up.

2.
Who are the users of your gym?

In one post you mention this is going to be a hotel gym. I have no idea why you would want to introduce a lawsuit waiting to happen by adding a squat rack and free weight machines in this setting. There's a reason most nice hotels have dumbbells 5-100, a dual adjustable pulley machine, some FID benches, cardio machines, and maybe a handful of selectorized machines. On rare occasion there's a Smith Machine.

3.
Exactly what are the dimensions of your gym layout?

Single use machines make no sense if your space is limited. Leg Extension / Leg Curl Combo. Dual Adjustable Pulley Machine + Smith Combo. Etc.

4.
What is your objective with this gym exactly?

Is it just to fulfill a hotel amenity requirement? Because it feels like you're trying to make this something more than that for reasons??

[Tommy W.]

I should have made the point of the post clearer. I'm trying to decide which machines to prioritise buying in a small gym I'm setting up. There will already be free weights and cable machines, but there is limited room for about 3-4 machines (depending on their size). I want to know which machines I should prioritise over any others. I'm not looking for a brand of machine, but more the type of machine. E.g. high row, or pullover.

then good luck. You should know what you want going into it.

[BiGx5MurF]

before the pandemic drove me to working out at home, I had been going to my local gym for 8 years, and did the majority of my workouts on hammer strength, cybex, and life fitness machines. I used machines a lot more than free weights, because they're more likely to be free during peak hours.

Working out at home, I switched my training to only free weights, and cables (lat/row + FT). I did suffer a couple minor injuries turning up the volume on free weight training in the beginning. But I avoided injury since using lifting gear like wrist wraps and such. I really don't miss any of the machines. But if I had to answer, I'd say calf, and tibia machine, as free weight/cable exercises to work those muscles are less than ideal.

[Duplicitous]

The old Nautilus Pullover machines would be on my short list. A leg curl would on there also (or curl/ext combo if you wish).

[John748]

before the pandemic drove me to working out at home, I had been going to my local gym for 8 years, and did the majority of my workouts on hammer strength, cybex, and life fitness machines. I used machines a lot more than free weights, because they're more likely to be free during peak hours.

Working out at home, I switched my training to only free weights, and cables (lat/row + FT). I did suffer a couple minor injuries turning up the volume on free weight training in the beginning. But I avoided injury since using lifting gear like wrist wraps and such. I really don't miss any of the machines. But if I had to answer, I'd say calf, and tibia machine, as free weight/cable exercises to work those muscles are less than ideal.

Do you specifically mean a seated calf / tibia machine?

[John748]

The old Nautilus Pullover machines would be on my short list. A leg curl would on there also (or curl/ext combo if you wish).

Do you specifically mean a Nautilus pullover, or more that style of pullover? Not having used a Nautilus brand pullover, I'm not sure if there's something unique about that particular one.

[John748]

Hi, I've been reading your threads and I don't understand where you're coming from.

Would you mind if I asked you some questions?

1.
How long have you been consistently training without breaks?

If you had enough experience, you would more or less understand the equipment required for most programs, and which extra equipment would make life easier. It feels like you don't have this awareness. For example, you were considering a dedicated shoulder press machine before something more essential like a leg curl machine. Something isn't adding up.

2.
Who are the users of your gym?

In one post you mention this is going to be a hotel gym. I have no idea why you would want to introduce a lawsuit waiting to happen by adding a squat rack and free weight machines in this setting. There's a reason most nice hotels have dumbbells 5-100, a dual adjustable pulley machine, some FID benches, cardio machines, and maybe a handful of selectorized machines. On rare occasion there's a Smith Machine.

3.
Exactly what are the dimensions of your gym layout?

Single use machines make no sense if your space is limited. Leg Extension / Leg Curl Combo. Dual Adjustable Pulley Machine + Smith Combo. Etc.

4.
What is your objective with this gym exactly?

Is it just to fulfill a hotel amenity requirement? Because it feels like you're trying to make this something more than that for reasons??

Covid sort of messed up the "without breaks" bit, but a few years. However, for most of that time, it was with a power rack, barbells, and bench, with little to no access to machines outside of a few simple cable machines. I was considering a shoulder press on the basis of comments that that movement couldn't be replicated equivalently with free weights or a something like a Rogue LT-1 50 Cal. I have focused more on a belt squat / adjustable leg press which would give options to do squat variations to focus on either the hamstrings or quads - which is what I've done in the past. A part of asking in this thread is to try to understand based on more than just my limited experience how important a leg curl machine would be given that there will already be a belt squat.

My family and I will be the primary users of the gym, but it's geared towards a mixed use in a small hotel / B&B. From experience few guests ever use the weights / machines area of the gym, but that's not the only area in the gym, and the gym as a whole needs to look good - which is a big part of why I'm not looking for a mix of second hand equipment that I would be looking for if it were just for myself. The total "gym area" is just over 200m², but there are a few general areas in there that tie into uses other than what I may mostly be using (a kids climbing area, cardio machines, and yoga / dancing / movement). After the "essentials" for the gym, of power rack, benches, cable machines, multi flight, multi hip, barbells, kettlebells, dumbbells and belt squat, there is some open space left, which can fit in 3-4 machines depending on their size. So I can either leave it as empty space, or order some additional machines to come in the same delivery as the others equipment. Overall the use is a mix between what I want, and what would make sense for its commercial purposes. So my essentials are already ordered. The question is which machines should be included that would compliment what is already ordered.

[Camarija]

It sounds like this is mostly for you then.

Then buy whatever you want bro.

Considering you've been training longer than I have, I'm assuming you're an advanced lifter at this point and all of my advice is meaningless.

I would state a Goal, follow programming to accomplish that goal, and buy equipment to follow that programming.

If your goal is powerlifting, your equipment would be much different than physique training or sports specific training, etc.

I've used the belt squat, it's not great for physique training, it has more use in powerlifting programs. I'm not powerlifting anymore, so I don't use a belt squat anymore. For physique training, even squats aren't that great. Banded Hack Squats and Leg Press Bridge machines are just superior. But if you are a noobie, (i.e. you Squat less than 1.5x body weight) then Barbell squats have a place.

This is how I would outfit that massive 200 square meters of space:

Lower

Monster Hack Squat (EliteFTS)
Super Leg Press Bridge (Panatta Freeweight Special)
Super Power Runner (Panatta Freeweight Special)
Leg Extension (Panatta Monolith)

Hip Thrust (Panatta Freeweight Special)
Animal Hyper Extension (Watson)
Seated Leg Curl (Panatta Monolith)
Prone Leg Curl (Panatta Monolith)

Adductor Machine (Monolith)
Gluteator Glute System (Dynavec)
Super Donkey Calf Raise (Panatta Freeweight Special)
Super Seated Calf Raise (Panatta Freeweight Special)

HD Elite Power Rack (Hammer Strength)
Olympic Smith Machine Counterbalanced (Panatta Freeweight Special)
Inside Functional Trainer (Panatta)

Total Arm Blaster Bench (Watson)
Multipurpose Sit Up Bench (Panatta Freeweight HP)
Abdominal Isolator (Panatta Fit Evo)

Push

Super Declined Chest Press (Panatta Freeweight Special)
Super Horizontal Chest Press (Panatta Freeweight Special)
Super Inclined Chest Press (Panatta Freeweight Special)
Super Deltoid Press (Panatta Freeweight Special)

Dip Press Dual System (Panatta Freeweight Special)
Super Horizontal Flight Machine (Panatta Freeweight Special)
Super Inclined Flight Machine (Panatta Freeweight Special)
Lateral Deltoids (Panatta Freeweight Special)

Pull

Extreme Row (Prime Fitness Plate Loaded)
Animal Chest Supported T-Bar Row (Watson)
Super High Row (Panatta Freeweight Special)
Super Lat Pulldown Circular (Panatta Freeweight Special)

Pullover Machine (Panatta Freeweight Special)
Back Deltoids (Panatta Freeweight Special)
Curling Machine (Panatta Freeweight Special)
Alternate Curling Machine (Panatta Freeweight Special)

Cardio

Woodway Pro XL
Cybex Arc Trainer R Series 50L
Panatta Pininfarina LED Plus Horizontal Bike

------

If you don't actually have that much space, I'd do something like this instead:

1 - Prime Fitness Prodigy HLP Selectorized Half Rack + Adjustable Bench
2 - Powerlift Pro Select Combo Leg Ext / Seated Leg Curl
3 - Black Iron Strength Adjustable Dumbbells Wedge 40
4 - Bars (Rogue SS Ohio Bar, Ivanko OBZS-30 Stainless EZ-Curl Bar, Marr’s Bar, Kabuki The Kadillac Bar, Prime Fitness Trap Bar)
5 - Attachments (Mag Grip, LPG Muscle, Black Iron Strength, Prime Fitness, American Barbell)
6 - Some Cardio Machines

[Duplicitous]

Do you specifically mean a Nautilus pullover, or more that style of pullover? Not having used a Nautilus brand pullover, I'm not sure if there's something unique about that particular one.

Yes, I specifically mean (vintage) Nautilus. Everyone that is familiar with them has a favorite among them, but Gen 1-3 were all good imho.

[Greybird2]

Nautilus pullover? Why?

[air2fakie]

Covid sort of messed up the "without breaks" bit, but a few years. However, for most of that time, it was with a power rack, barbells, and bench, with little to no access to machines outside of a few simple cable machines. I was considering a shoulder press on the basis of comments that that movement couldn't be replicated equivalently with free weights or a something like a Rogue LT-1 50 Cal. I have focused more on a belt squat / adjustable leg press which would give options to do squat variations to focus on either the hamstrings or quads - which is what I've done in the past. A part of asking in this thread is to try to understand based on more than just my limited experience how important a leg curl machine would be given that there will already be a belt squat.

My family and I will be the primary users of the gym, but it's geared towards a mixed use in a small hotel / B&B. From experience few guests ever use the weights / machines area of the gym, but that's not the only area in the gym, and the gym as a whole needs to look good - which is a big part of why I'm not looking for a mix of second hand equipment that I would be looking for if it were just for myself. The total "gym area" is just over 200m², but there are a few general areas in there that tie into uses other than what I may mostly be using (a kids climbing area, cardio machines, and yoga / dancing / movement). After the "essentials" for the gym, of power rack, benches, cable machines, multi flight, multi hip, barbells, kettlebells, dumbbells and belt squat, there is some open space left, which can fit in 3-4 machines depending on their size. So I can either leave it as empty space, or order some additional machines to come in the same delivery as the others equipment. Overall the use is a mix between what I want, and what would make sense for its commercial purposes. So my essentials are already ordered. The question is which machines should be included that would compliment what is already ordered.

It sounds like you're just putting a little gym into your family's B&B for yourself (& expensing the costs), so pick a few machines that cover movements/exercises you have experience with, enjoy & suit your goals.

People all have a variety of experience, goals & preferences, so spending a decent amount of $ for a only few machines based on others' recommendations is a bit silly in this case. It'd be a little diff if you were looking to set up a full array of machines.

And you should really lock this off from guest use if it's primarily for you anyway. Some kid or hipster is going to get crushed under something eventually, it's a huge liability issue.

[BiGx5MurF]

Do you specifically mean a seated calf / tibia machine?

Yeah, the gym I was going to had both by hammer strength, and arranged so that I could use the tibia machine by sitting on the seated calf raise backwards. The hammer strength tibia machine actually looked exactly like the titan fitness version.

I don't have anyway to replicate both exercises, other than free weight or cable loaded standing calf raise. But then again, I don't suffer from tiny calf syndrome.

[radrd]

And you should really lock this off from guest use if it's primarily for you anyway. Some kid or hipster is going to get crushed under something eventually, it's a huge liability issue.

Or at least check with your insurance provider to make sure you're covered if an accident happens. Guests will probably need to sign a waiver as well, but that's not going to protect you in all instances.

[HomeGymChains]

This isn’t all that relevant to your situation, but as far as the thread title… I still remember my favorite machine from forty years ago. It was a bicep curl machine with a cam that was exactly perfect to require 100% effort throughout the entire range of motion. I never could get a feel that good from any free weights or cable.

[gym62richard]

Yes, I specifically mean (vintage) Nautilus. Everyone that is familiar with them has a favorite among them, but Gen 1-3 were all good imho.

Agreed, those early generation Nautilus Pullover's are unparalleled, later Nautilus designs just never felt the same.

The issue for the OP is, like myself we're based in Europe, early Nautilus machines are like gold dust over here. The better units such as the Pullover, if you were lucky enough to find one, they fetch ridiculous amounts of money.