Do you guys ever get tired...

[ChazWood]

I dont know what you mean If by 'haters' you mean a group of people who all have something in common. That being they have never accomplished much. Sure. It is not bad here today, but in the past, I had quite the group of buddies on here. Most have quit training many years ago.

Oceanside recently emerged from the homeless shelter to come revisit me. Been a little while since I have heard from any of them

ID Dude, if you're winning in your own mind, then that's all that should matter. But FWIW, I'm picking up mixed vibes yur beaming out.

Oh, I know. You don't care, and yet there it is.

[induced_drag]

ID Dude, if you're winning in your own mind, then that's all that should matter. But FWIW, I'm picking up mixed vibes yur beaming out.

Oh, I know. You don't care, and yet there it is.

Thanks my buddy Chazzy. I fully embrace the side of my personality that can be a prick also I dont use it all that much because generally I like people too much. But when the opposite is true, I am pretty good at it. And as much as I hate to admit it, scrapping can actually be a little enjoyable.

Hope all is well in your neck of the woods. New Year, same me!

[ChazWood]

Thanks my buddy Chazzy. I fully embrace the side of my personality that can be a prick also I dont use it all that much because generally I like people too much. But when the opposite is true, I am pretty good at it. And as much as I hate to admit it, scrapping can actually be a little enjoyable.

Hope all is well in your neck of the woods. New Year, same me!

ID Dude, I totally get what you're saying, but is it optimal?

U got the brainz to do the logic. Social intelligence is a legit thing, IMHO. I just got done reading a book called "Mastery" by this Dude, Robert Greene. This book resonated with me in a profound way. A lot was intuitive, and yet it somehow evaded my perspective all my life. I got many useful tools from this book. One day I may share details of my next project, but I'll tell u now it's BIG. And to succeed, I'll need to be optimal. Just wanted to share that FWIW.

and Happy New Year, brother.

[induced_drag]

ID Dude, I totally get what you're saying, but is it optimal?

U got the brainz to do the logic. Social intelligence is a legit thing, IMHO. I just got done reading a book called "Mastery" by this Dude, Robert Greene. This book resonated with me in a profound way. A lot was intuitive, and yet it somehow evaded my perspective all my life. I got many useful tools from this book. One day I may share details of my next project, but I'll tell u now it's BIG. And to succeed, I'll need to be optimal. Just wanted to share that FWIW.

and Happy New Year, brother.

As always you leave with some interesting thoughts to explore. This time of year is always one for introspection. Had a good few bits to examine 2021 and came away with the feeling that 2021 was an AWESOME year.

I looked at the book and it looks like an interesting read. I have never shared I have difficulty in reading. Even more so since my TBI since my ability to focus was diminished. I have and always had a processing disorder. I read way faster than I comprehend and my eyes have a tendency to dart around taking in bits and pieces of an entire page. The meaning just kind of forms in my head like pixels of a screen filling in a picture from blurry to clear is the best way I can describe. It does not hinder me in technical reading. Actually it gives me the ability to read and absorb and retain massive amounts of info on almost a total recall level. But makes reading with meaning a chore since I have to slow myself down to read in context. I have actually never read a 'book' in my life. But I am compulsive reading of technical type literature. Wish I had more brain balance to enjoy the act of reading, but my brain is not really equipped to process in that manner. Topic looks very interesting, and non-fiction books I can process much better depending on writing style.

But as is clearly apparent, my social intelligence is a weak point. I am a little different type person. Not for everyone. Polarizing, unapologetic and consistent. That actually would be a barrier to my ultimate success if I had to rely too heavily on working with others. But I have managed to do ok on my own. Happy with moderate success and freedom to be me. If I had a more conforming nature, I could probably have done pretty well in this world.

Always appreciate your perception. You are an interesting dude. Always food for thought.

Hope all is well. Happy 2022 forward. I hope no one in your family is impacted by all the craziness abound! We try to stay as 'normal' as we can around here!

[ChazWood]

Right on, ID Dude. Good stuff.

and I can't read for chit either, so I use Audible, FTW.

Another strong suggestion is to check out this Andrew Huberman Dude. He's got a YouTube channel called Huberman Lab and it's loaded with primo content. I think you will find his contributions insightful. While a Professor of Neurobiology at Stanford, his tight, chill style holds my attention while getting granular. I'm learning some good, practical stuff from this Huberman Dude!

and thanks, but I'm not very interesting. Not really. I reckon I used to be, back in my 20s and 30s. Crazy stories from the fearless days of youth.

[DustinTheHuss]

People saw a picture of Jeff Bezos and accused him of using PED's. LOl

"Jeff Bezos Accused Of Taking HGH, Source Says His Body Is "All Natural":

https://www.hotnewhiphop.com/jeff-be...ws.145512.html

Although I have to say when I saw his photos I said he isn't natty since he never started lifting until recently

I think we are all guilty of this to some degree as many lifters tell men over 30 to take cell tech. But for men who have been lifting for years, I believe that some aren't natty.

[induced_drag]

Another strong suggestion is to check out this Andrew Huberman Dude. He's got a YouTube channel called Huberman Lab and it's loaded with primo content.

HA! I have run across him before. I often stream YT on a monitor while I am at my PC. Lately been a little obsessed with crypto, but be good to get my mind on another subject since crypto is one big mind fuk lately

Picking some good ones to watch now!

[xTeTe]

It really depends on the source. I can understand the gut reaction because there is an abundance of liars and downplayers of the effects, and on the other side excuse makers looking to discredit anything that helps justify their own lack of results. Context is everything here.

Yeah this is fair. I'm not trying to knock anyone for using TRT or anything else.. I don't judge people, but I do agree that people who lie about being on HRT or PEDs when they are is absurd.

I just hate when people blanketly state that it HAS to be the case when you see someone over 40 that is jacked (unless they're freakishly big).

[ectoBgone]

I just hate when people blanketly state that it HAS to be the case when you see someone over 40 that is jacked (unless they're freakishly big).

I agree. You'll also see it in natty or not videos by peddlers of supplements like Greg Doucette and Derek from More Plates More Dates. See someone that looks better at 40 than 30? He must be on PEDs because that 5-7% dip in peak testosterone levels is surely gonna hold back any gains regardless of their unknown or unverifiable training history. /s

[induced_drag]

I agree. You'll also see it in natty or not videos by peddlers of supplements like Greg Doucette and Derek from More Plates More Dates. See someone that looks better at 40 than 30? He must be on PEDs because that 5-7% dip in peak testosterone levels is surely gonna hold back any gains regardless of their unknown or unverifiable training history. /s

Test levels (within natural ranges) have much less and impact on gains than people think. I had sub clinical levels for over the first three to four years of my comeback before we figured it out. My free test was below the bottom of the scale. My dr said I had the test levels of about what a 13 year old girl would have. Yet many on this forum were accusing me of using at the time.

[ectoBgone]

Test levels (within natural ranges) have much less and impact on gains than people think. I had sub clinical levels for over the first three to four years of my comeback before we figured it out. My free test was below the bottom of the scale. My dr said I had the test levels of about what a 13 year old girl would have. Yet many on this forum were accusing me of using at the time.

Yes and no. For a person who is natural, a modest shift one way or another is not very meaningful. However, someone going on TRT who stays in the "natural" range still has a significant advantage over someone actually natural in the same range. This is because the assisted person maintains that level for MUCH longer periods of time and the difference in the total area under the curve is significant. As with anything training or supplement related, results will still vary quite a bit per individual on how much of a difference it makes.

[induced_drag]

Yes and no. For a person who is natural, a modest shift one way or another is not very meaningful. However, someone going on TRT who stays in the "natural" range still has a significant advantage over someone actually natural in the same range. This is because the assisted person maintains that level for MUCH longer periods of time and the difference in the total area under the curve is significant. As with anything training or supplement related, results will still vary quite a bit per individual on how much of a difference it makes.

This is not exactly true. Somewhat of the opposite is. You forget that trt is administered generally once every 7 days. Some even still use a 14 day administration. That means you will peak and then decline at the 1/2 life. You dont go thought the natural highs and lows that the body produces. You dont get the timed surges around workouts where the bodys production is upregulated. There are even some that suggest trying to break up replacement protocols into daily administration etc.

When a guy is on an actual bicycle, th peak is 2-3x higher than natural and the low is still a factorial higher. You are never dipping down below natural ranges.


But this difference is not terrible. As I said, test at normal levels is not a big player in muscular growth. A great example are the testboosters that used to be sold here. Many actually worked quite well, with guys showing blood test where they would actually be brought ABOVE the natural high point. Lots of guys posting up 1200-1400 blood levels. They actually worked. Worked at rising test that is. Despite the availability and use and supporting blood work, there were no GAINZ to go with this.

That is why people all resoundingly say test boosters dont work. That is not accurate. They indeed do, or did work great. Just raising your test even to 1200 wont make much of any difference if you are already at function levels.


Where I think TRT will give an athlete an advantage over a natural, is if you are engaging in protracted, heavy dieting. Bodybuilding is an example. The trt guy wont see his levels go into the toilet because he is trying to drop to single digit bodyfat. But most natural bodybuilders are not staying there for more than 12 weeks. But there would be a difference over years of training if one was doing continual dieting I believe.

[Jtbny]

Where I think TRT will give an athlete an advantage over a natural, is if you are engaging in protracted, heavy dieting. Bodybuilding is an example. The trt guy wont see his levels go into the toilet because he is trying to drop to single digit bodyfat. But most natural bodybuilders are not staying there for more than 12 weeks. But there would be a difference over years of training if one was doing continual dieting I believe.

Well also with speed of recovery. For me that was a noticeable difference and really the only benefit I saw. Because I was recovering faster I was able to push harder and roll more than normal. That itself would speed up any gains over someone natural. FTR I was 100mg twice a week of a fast absorbing green tea. But the recovery aspect, for me, was real and very noticeable.

[induced_drag]

Well also with speed of recovery. For me that was a noticeable difference and really the only benefit I saw. Because I was recovering faster I was able to push harder and roll more than normal. That itself would speed up any gains over someone natural. FTR I was 100mg twice a week of a fast absorbing green tea. But the recovery aspect, for me, was real and very noticeable.

Very cool to hear. I dont know that I could perceive that, but not saying it is not like that for you. I however am/was very sleep focused in my training. When I was first coming back to the gym and working my hardest, I was getting a min of 10 hours sleep a night. I am super sensitive to missing sleep and even one day, I get run down feeling.

Since I dont push as hard these days, I try for a min of 8-9 hours but I dont always get it. If I have a 7 hour night, I feel like crap the next day and if I do it two days in a row, I will start to get sick.

I dont think it was like that when I did not work out. But I cant remember what life was like without stressing myself 4 times a week. It is just my 'normal' to need to be mindful of recovery. If I could find something that would help me live on 7-8 hours sleep and not get run down, I would be all over it!

[Jtbny]

Very cool to hear. I dont know that I could perceive that, but not saying it is not like that for you. I however am/was very sleep focused in my training. When I was first coming back to the gym and working my hardest, I was getting a min of 10 hours sleep a night. I am super sensitive to missing sleep and even one day, I get run down feeling.

Since I dont push as hard these days, I try for a min of 8-9 hours but I dont always get it. If I have a 7 hour night, I feel like crap the next day and if I do it two days in a row, I will start to get sick.

I dont think it was like that when I did not work out. But I cant remember what life was like without stressing myself 4 times a week. It is just my 'normal' to need to be mindful of recovery. If I could find something that would help me live on 7-8 hours sleep and not get run down, I would be all over it!

All variables remained constant for me including sleep those 13 weeks. Like you I'm pretty sleep sensitive and I prioritize getting enough or I suffer (like I am now because of a new puppy ).

It wasn't only recovery as in soreness/energy but even little nagging injuries cleared up fast. That likely lead to me feeling better overall as well. I'll take another "drink" in March so I'll see if the results are similar as I'm only slightly bumping the amount (from 200 to 300 a week split between two cups).

[induced_drag]

@jt
Come back over the IS. I know things have gotten looser over here, but I dont want to risk ban camp. I have some advice or perspective if you are open to listening.

[Jtbny]

@jt
Come back over the IS. I know things have gotten looser over here, but I dont want to risk ban camp. I have some advice or perspective if you are open to listening.

I'm over there. Looks like the site went to some sort of backup from June??

[induced_drag]

Yep...technical glitch. That was latest back up. Any way, hit me up over there PM or start a thread.

[OldFartTom]

something that would help me live on 7-8 hours sleep and not get run down, I would be all over it!

7-8 hours sleep, in a single block undisturbed??? On a regular basis?? Wow, I dream of getting so much

[eternalnoob]

No. I get tired of thread titles that are half a sentence and don't explain what the thread is about though.


Negged.

[Jtbny]

No. I get tired of thread titles that are half a sentence and don't explain what the thread is about though.


Negged.

Oh you like negs? Cool have some red skittles.

[induced_drag]

7-8 hours sleep, in a single block undisturbed??? On a regular basis?? Wow, I dream of getting so much

That is a MIN for me. I cant really survive on less. I have over the years tried, and I can not workout and recover with less sleep. I literally will get sick in just a few days. I get sore throat, and my eyes get what my wife calls 'pink eyeliner'.

Sleep is right up there with one of my most important parts of my training. No doubt, even one nights missed sleep hurts progress and performance. I can demand pretty much anything of my body if I give myself the time to recover. If I try to short change the recovery part, I pay for it quickly.

[Cantplankwell]

7-8 hours sleep, in a single block undisturbed??? On a regular basis?? Wow, I dream of getting so much

Yup ...a good night for me is like 4-5 solid hours maybe.

[induced_drag]

Not busting anyone's balls, but for the guys who get 4-5 hours sleep, do you still train?

I dont know any performance athlete that sleeps so little. I may be almost 50 but I still treat myself as an athlete and there is no way I could place the demands that I do on myself with such little sleep.

If you do train, and have not seen the progress you would like, fixing sleep issues would be first place I started. It will impact everything. I can even imagine getting that little sleep. No way I could even attempt to workout at all.

It is also why I dont drink. Drinking impairs recovery. Once a month or so I may have one or two drinks, but that is about it, unless I get with some friends to tie one one Drinking on a regular basis would impair recovery too much and prevents good sleep. For me it is not worth it.

[mtpockets]

I am in the fart sack by 9 or 10 and crawl out by 4am been like that for many years. No alarm clock. I have been known to have a 20 minute nap under a tree after lunch on a long hike. Short naps are amazing.

[Bo_Flecks]

Naps? Now you guys are talking my language.

[eomrat]

Slow down guys I'm only on replacement type stuff here. Next you'll suggest Oolong which everyone knows is the real deal.

Stay away from it. I heard it will make you ridiculously good at math.

[eomrat]

7-8 hours sleep, in a single block undisturbed??? On a regular basis?? Wow, I dream of getting so much

Asleep no later than 1000 and awake no earlier than 0700. 49 nights out of 50. No pills.

[steffo99]

Weird about sleep, seems highly individual and in younger years it seemed I needed more than my friends and more than 8 hrs. Now, 6-7 hrs works fine. Would probably die on 4-5 hrs though.

[Cantplankwell]

Not busting anyone's balls, but for the guys who get 4-5 hours sleep, do you still train?

I dont know any performance athlete that sleeps so little. I may be almost 50 but I still treat myself as an athlete and there is no way I could place the demands that I do on myself with such little sleep.

If you do train, and have not seen the progress you would like, fixing sleep issues would be first place I started. It will impact everything. I can even imagine getting that little sleep. No way I could even attempt to workout at all.

It is also why I dont drink. Drinking impairs recovery. Once a month or so I may have one or two drinks, but that is about it, unless I get with some friends to tie one one Drinking on a regular basis would impair recovery too much and prevents good sleep. For me it is not worth it.

Still train..yessir, ...Athletic?...up until the start of the Pandemic I was also playing hockey 2- times per week, and most of my lifting is Olympic derived...which is quite athletic as well.

You can get used to just about anything, however this situation is far from ideal

I find other ways to slack off which helps to recover.