Cutting advice ....if you have any.

[steffo99]

Looking for advice from you guys more experienced than me, which is pretty much anyone here I think. I've slacked off big time during these special times.. and even before tbh but looking to get it together a bit again with new gym membership and more.

I am still a complete newb in several areas compared to the ppl here so hoping just to get some small tips or advice I can use. What I'm concerned about is the inevitable/coming weight cut and how to reduce the muscle loss coming with it.

The reason I ask for advice is that the last, and only time, I had to make a rather large weight drop/cut, even though it went well overall... looking back at it I see that after a certain point (looking at old pics etc) I lost too much muscle mass which seems very counter-productive.


The only thing atm I can think of is to not set the goal at single digit bf, which is fine I guess, and just stop way earlier this time around. I did test my strength throughout a bit last time and it was the best relative to my bodyweight about halfway through.

Maybe I answered my own question by typing it out, lol.

Edit: Last time I did it by the way of Keto....and started 500 cals below what I thought/measured maintenance to be.

[Cass40]

Why can't you just train for strength and cut calories or what else would you possibly do?

[steffo99]

Why can't you just train for strength and cut calories or what else would you possibly do?

OK, but still have the question/request for advice about minimizing muscle atrophy while cutting and how to approach/look at it. Results here obviously differ depending on the person and how they went about it, hopefully beyond just calories. Strenght training, after a certain point, also seems very advanced tbh. After quickly hitting a wall, need proper programs or just keep repeating the same **** with no progress - like I did.

[Cass40]

OK, but still have the question/request for advice about minimizing muscle atrophy while cutting and how to approach/look at it. Results here obviously differ depending on the person and how they went about it, hopefully beyond just calories. Strenght training, after a certain point, also seems very advanced tbh. After quickly hitting a wall, need proper programs or just keep repeating the same **** with no progress - like I did.

Maybe follow Ronnie Colemans program. He was able to train for strength while on a cut and make it to Mr. Olympia. And get on dat dere time nom sayin'.
And don't get injured.

I'm here all day for more tips.

Oh and don't do a lot of cardio at the beginning of your cut. More like long walks etc.

[Plateauplower]

Eat enough protein .8-1.2 g/lb while eating in a deficit and lifting. Don’t exceed 1% BW loss per week I.e 200lbs /2lbs per week max. Towards the end the weight loss on scale is slow but changes in the mirror are huge.

I prefer low/no carbs for feeling good and no hunger. I’m overdue for a cut and will be starting 1/1/22.

[steffo99]

I'm here all day for more tips.

Thanks Finja, hope I can consult you in many future areas as well.

[steffo99]

Eat enough protein .8-1.2 g/lb while eating in a deficit and lifting. Don’t exceed 1% BW loss per week I.e 200lbs /2lbs per week max. Towards the end the weight loss on scale is slow but changes in the mirror are huge. I prefer low/no carbs for feeling good and no hunger. I’m overdue for a cut and will be starting 1/1/22.

Thanks for the advice....might be part of what I did wrong the last time. Was so excited to see the scale move a lot, but makes sense to pace it a bit. Good luck on your cut as well. Not that you need it - seen you do this great before.

[Plateauplower]

Thanks for the advice....might be part of what I did wrong the last time. Was so excited to see the scale move a lot, but makes sense to pace it a bit. Good luck on your cut as well. Not that you need it - seen you do this great before.

Yeah I like to be aggressive on a cut but not to the point of being counterproductive and losing LBM. What Cass mentioned is true too. Too much cardio can be hard, primarily more recovery. I keep cardio but more long brisk walks instead of higher intensity steady state. LISS still provides cardiovascular benefits, increases TDEE, is easy to recover from and most importantly doesn’t make me extremely hungry. HIIT could be good in moderation as well, some studies support it’s efficiency for fatloss.

[induced_drag]

IF is the best thing I have found ever. Super easy to control appetite. That was always my biggest struggle.

But 1000 ways to do it and pick one and make it happen. Most people fail because they are weak. Mentally not physically. Very few have any real discipline. Just have to want to be lean more than you want to stuff food in your face.

[steffo99]

Thank you guys for responding, if anyone have done it properly it's you guys, and Cass thanks for the cardio advice as well. I know I have the mentality for it as have done it before and have only half the apetite of my friends, which makes it easier. Probably, I just went too aggressive last time and lost too much in that time period, but if IF can work so well I am greatful for that advice as well and will look more into it (counted it out for some reason, not sure why). Last time I got all hooked on Keto, looked at all the speaches etc by the main characters. Worked well, but in the end I just think I lost a whole lot and bit more than hoped for. Thank you all.

[smokinal]

Eat enough protein .8-1.2 g/lb while eating in a deficit and lifting. Don’t exceed 1% BW loss per week I.e 200lbs /2lbs per week max. Towards the end the weight loss on scale is slow but changes in the mirror are huge.

I prefer low/no carbs for feeling good and no hunger. I’m overdue for a cut and will be starting 1/1/22.

Absolutely

Just have to want to be lean more than you want to stuff food in your face.

This too


I'll add, keep weight loss to a minimum; marathon, not a race. 1% per week until you get lean, then not more than 1lb per week.
Again, keep proteins high.
Most important; a lot of guys want to increase reps and lower weight to get "toned, ripped". Nope, keep your weights/lifts high and intense. "Dance the dance that got you there"....keep training like you were on bulk, just cut your cals.
All of these are common practices I use in prep for a show and usually work out ok, even for an old guy.

[steffo99]

Thank you Smokinal, reinforces some of what Plateauplower brought up there. Last time I lost several pounds per week and doing it for the first time I guess one can get carried away a bit.

[smokinal]

Keep in mind you will lose 2-3 lbs your first week as some will be water weight; and that's normal. That's why we don't make adjustments for 2 weeks at least.
Weigh yourself often and make small adjustments 2 weeks at a time.

[induced_drag]

Keep in mind you will lose 2-3 lbs your first week as some will be water weight; and that's normal. That's why we don't make adjustments for 2 weeks at least.
Weigh yourself often and make small adjustments 2 weeks at a time.

I just love it when I get reminded that there are still those guys out there who have walked the walk. Put the time in and are still at it. Props man. And to many more years continued success. If I have never said it, you have done quite well and are a inspiration!

[Tommy W.]

People stress way too much about muscle loss when dieting down.
Get in your protein, lower training volume while maintaining intensity. If you do lose some muscle it comes back fast when you reverse diet later.

The biggest factor though is people thinking they lost a lot of muscle when in reality they just didn’t have as much as they thought. You drop fat and you’ll look small in clothes but usually bigger without if you had a semi decent amount of muscle.

[steffo99]

Good points, Tommy. Thanks. And it's hard for beginners types like myself to know if have lost muscle or just mostly water/fat. But when strength falls a whole lot , it does mess with yor mind a bit though. Even stranger is that one get more compliments from the environment/women etc as get smaller/weaker/leaner (in my case at least). That used to matter as well for me I guess, but not anymore (I should hope). Assuming due to leaness of the face (will have to consult Chaz on this).

[Plateauplower]

Good points, Tommy. Thanks. And it's hard for beginners types like myself to know if have lost muscle or just mostly water/fat. But when strength falls a whole lot , it does mess with yor mind a bit though. Even stranger is that one get more compliments from the environment/women etc as get smaller/weaker/leaner (in my case at least). That used to matter as well for me I guess, but not anymore (I should hope). Assuming due to leaness of the face (will have to consult Chaz on this).

In my opinion losing fat is losing muscle, to an extent. When you carry more fat, some of that fat is in the muscle tissue, making a larger muscle in size, and therefore a larger lever. You can stay strong when lean and lb/lb strength will increase. You become more efficient overall, but absolute strength will be lower when leaner. It’s just how it works. Genetics make a difference in how lean you can comfortably live IMO. I can’t live lean w/out a lot of sacrifices, so my desire to get lean becomes a cyclical adventure every 2-3 years. I’ll never get as lean as I got in 2018 unless I’m going to compete though. It was neat, but it was not pleasant/easy living or sustainable.

[induced_drag]

In my opinion losing fat is losing muscle, to an extent. When you carry more fat, some of that fat is in the muscle tissue, making a larger muscle in size, and therefore a larger lever. You can stay strong when lean and lb/lb strength will increase. You become more efficient overall, but absolute strength will be lower when leaner. It’s just how it works. Genetics make a difference in how lean you can comfortably live IMO. I can’t live lean w/out a lot of sacrifices, so my desire to get lean becomes a cyclical adventure every 2-3 years. I’ll never get as lean as I got in 2018 unless I’m going to compete though. It was neat, but it was not pleasant/easy living or sustainable.

Disagree with this, in the big picture. Intramuscular fat makes you stronger. Well I guess we might be saying some of the same things.... Much in the same way that creatine can by creating extra volume in the muscle and exerting lateral forces to contract against. Kind of like pulling on a rope and a guy can push in the middle of the rope and it creates a great lever that greatly increases the force of the pull.

I was significantly stronger power to weight, before I ever started down the journey to become lean. Even with 10-15lbs less muscle I was stronger. Leaning out over time actually made me weaker. The deeper you cut, getting into single digits will erode away strength you will never get back. If I had stayed 13-15% I think I would have stayed much stronger. Cutting below 10% and staying there any length of time. And doing it over and over, you never gain back that intra muscular fat, my theory, You just pick up VAT and then sub-q if you go too long. So you end up being weaker than you would be if you had never cut.

Cutting and staying lean is not good if strength is your ultimate goal. It is why so few athletes are that lean, unless they were born that way. Having some fat increases leverages and performance. Once you lose it, it is hard to get back. It comes back around your stomach first and you then want to get to cutting again

[Plateauplower]

Disagree with this, in the big picture. Intramuscular fat makes you stronger. Well I guess we might be saying some of the same things.... Much in the same way that creatine can by creating extra volume in the muscle and exerting lateral forces to contract against. Kind of like pulling on a rope and a guy can push in the middle of the rope and it creates a great lever that greatly increases the force of the pull.

I was significantly stronger power to weight, before I ever started down the journey to become lean. Even with 10-15lbs less muscle I was stronger. Leaning out over time actually made me weaker. The deeper you cut, getting into single digits will erode away strength you will never get back. If I had stayed 13-15% I think I would have stayed much stronger. Cutting below 10% and staying there any length of time. And doing it over and over, you never gain back that intra muscular fat, my theory, You just pick up VAT and then sub-q if you go too long. So you end up being weaker than you would be if you had never cut.

Cutting and staying lean is not good if strength is your ultimate goal. It is why so few athletes are that lean, unless they were born that way. Having some fat increases leverages and performance. Once you lose it, it is hard to get back. It comes back around your stomach first and you then want to get to cutting again

Yeah saying the same thing. Although you do get it back. It depends on where you store fat. There’s a reason that certain cows are good for beef and others are good for milk . Overall agree though. Not everyone wants the sacrifices that it takes though, for me to stay lean, it’s pretty much eating disorder territory.

[induced_drag]

Yeah saying the same thing. Although you do get it back. It depends on where you store fat. There’s a reason that certain cows are good for beef and others are good for milk . Overall agree though. Not everyone wants the sacrifices that it takes though, for me to stay lean, it’s pretty much eating disorder territory.

Try IF w/ alternate hard 20-22 hour fasts for as much as you want to drop weight my friend. I have not done a single cardio session in 4 years. I am almost at the leanest I have ever been. I just vary how 'hard' I fast on the 3 days were I only eat once. Super easy and not even a struggle.

[Plateauplower]

Try IF w/ alternate hard 20-22 hour fasts for as much as you want to drop weight my friend. I have not done a single cardio session in 4 years. I am almost at the leanest I have ever been. I just vary how 'hard' I fast on the 3 days were I only eat once. Super easy and not even a struggle.

Maybe I’ll give it a try but you have to admit that’s an eating disorder, at least in terms of what we consider “healthy”. Then again with obesity numbers at what they are and steadily increasing maybe eating they way that the “science” says is wrong .

People really aren’t meant to have such easy access to food IMO.

[induced_drag]

Maybe I’ll give it a try but you have to admit that’s an eating disorder, at least in terms of what we consider “healthy”. Then again with obesity numbers at what they are and steadily increasing maybe eating they way that the “science” says is wrong .

People really aren’t meant to have such easy access to food IMO.

So I have been getting annual bloodwork going back 15 years. Fasting showed improvements in all my markers. I have always had good lipids, 130 total triglycerides below 50, but fasting greatly improved my hdl/ldl ratio. This past year, I bought in 3 days a week of harder fasts, but I binged on TONS of bad foods. I took the opportunities to get cals in very liberally. The amazing thing is this was coming off a year of eating the WORST I have ever eaten. Indulging in lots of processed refined sugar snacks, cookies and candy. Eating 2 tubs of icecream a week. Fried chicken lunches w/ ramen for carbs 3 days a week...etc. I was was scared to get my physical in April. When I saw my numbers and how they were the best they have ever been, I almost passed out.

I think eating with long breaks in between actually will make you process foods better. I have also notice better and much more stable blood sugar levels. I would always test blood sugar at bottom of the range when fasted. One time I tested 52. Bottom is 70! My dr said, I dont even know how you were conscious. My blood sugar is MUCH more stable now.

[Cass40]

Maybe I’ll give it a try but you have to admit that’s an eating disorder, at least in terms of what we consider “healthy”. Then again with obesity numbers at what they are and steadily increasing maybe eating they way that the “science” says is wrong .

People really aren’t meant to have such easy access to food IMO.

Naa it's supposed to be healthy. Actually based on my youtube video watching, I just heard that you'd have to fast long time to even really lose muscle mass. I see if I can find it.

[Plateauplower]

So I have been getting annual bloodwork going back 15 years. Fasting showed improvements in all my markers. I have always had good lipids, 130 total triglycerides below 50, but fasting greatly improved my hdl/ldl ratio. This past year, I bought in 3 days a week of harder fasts, but I binged on TONS of bad foods. I took the opportunities to get cals in very liberally. The amazing thing is this was coming off a year of eating the WORST I have ever eaten. Indulging in lots of processed refined sugar snacks, cookies and candy. Eating 2 tubs of icecream a week. Fried chicken lunches w/ ramen for carbs 3 days a week...etc. I was was scared to get my physical in April. When I saw my numbers and how they were the best they have ever been, I almost passed out.

I think eating with long breaks in between actually will make you process foods better. I have also notice better and much more stable blood sugar levels. I would always test blood sugar at bottom of the range when fasted. One time I tested 52. Bottom is 70! My dr said, I dont even know how you were conscious. My blood sugar is MUCH more stable now.

Certainly not ideal for micros without nutrient dense foods, but can slip by for body composition. Worth a try, but a 8hr window is my normal eating schedule. It’s kind of like OG IF. I’ve never really done it intentionally just try to avoid eating as long as I can and go to bed before I need to eat again.

Naa it's supposed to be healthy. Actually based on my youtube video watching, I just heard that you'd have to fast long time to even really lose muscle mass. I see if I can find it.

You see, let know.
I’ve heard of changes to cellular turnover etc, I don’t buy it. Body work good when working.

[Cass40]

You see, let know.
I’ve heard of changes to cellular turnover etc, I don’t buy it. Body work good when working.

I think this guy talks about it in Joe Rogan. Not sure if I understand it correctly or how reliable it is though. And he's not bodybuilder,I don't think, so there's that too.

[smokinal]

I just love it when I get reminded that there are still those guys out there who have walked the walk. Put the time in and are still at it. Props man. And to many more years continued success. If I have never said it, you have done quite well and are a inspiration!

Thank you for the kind words ID. I've seen your pics over the years and for as long as I've "known" you, you have always been able to stay big, lean and muscular...something not many can do. Props back atcha brother.

[ajdahlheimer]

I have not done a single cardio session in 4 years.

What about giving your heart and lungs some exercise? Or are your lifting sessions intense enough to do that?

I do a lot cardio not so much as a means for burning calories/getting lean--but more for keeping my heart/lungs/etc. healthy. Even if it is just walking 4.0 mph on a slight incline.

-AJ

[ajdahlheimer]

OP--one of the things I do for convenience/simplicity when going on a deficit is eat basically the same thing everyday (Monday-Friday). That way if I am losing weight consistently each week, I know I will continue to do so because I am getting the exact same calories at each meal. So there is no need to count anything, which is something never done/had to do. I've cut 25-30 pounds a few different times with minimal effort (as far as dieting) IMO. Makes things a lot easier as far as meal prep and I have never minded eating the same meals because I like stuff I make (chicken, rice, tuna, oatmeal, eggs, avocados, etc.).

Good luck.

-AJ

[induced_drag]

What about giving your heart and lungs some exercise? Or are your lifting sessions intense enough to do that?

I do a lot cardio not so much as a means for burning calories/getting lean--but more for keeping my heart/lungs/etc. healthy. Even if it is just walking 4.0 mph on a slight incline.

-AJ

I know. I said that it is not a good thing. Just been lazy frankly. Since I hurt my back, it is a chore just to work out. I need more motivation. I keep saying I am going to do some 20 min sessions, and never did. I realize I am not getting any younger and it is something I really need to do.....