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    Registered User hanzosbm's Avatar
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    Quad vs groin on squats

    Hello all,

    I'm pretty new to lifting and noticed something strange tonight while squatting. I've been slowly working my way up in weight, targeting 8-12 reps per set, and as usual, I put an extra 10lbs on the bar tonight.
    But, I noticed something strange. Rather than feeling it in my quads like I usually do, I really felt it in my groin. It wasn't pain as much as really feeling those muscles kicking in and fatiguing.
    I'm assuming something was off with my form, but I was hoping someone might be able to clue me in as to whether this needs to be corrected or not (don't want to keep it up if it might lead to an injury) and if it does need to be corrected, what I should look out for.
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    The adductors play a big role in squats actually. You may be completely fine, particularly if you did not have any unusual soreness the next day. That said, you can always post a video of your form to get a critique. Also may want to keep the weight the same next session and see if it feels more normal; it should as you get stronger.
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    Registered User hanzosbm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    The adductors play a big role in squats actually. You may be completely fine, particularly if you did not have any unusual soreness the next day. That said, you can always post a video of your form to get a critique. Also may want to keep the weight the same next session and see if it feels more normal; it should as you get stronger.
    That's good to know. I can try to get a video next time I do squats. Would front or side likely be the best angle?
    Regarding the weight, it'll definitely be the same. I only increase when I'm pushing past the 8-12 rep range, at which point it typically falls back down and I build up again. This last workout I went 7/7/5, so the weight will be the same for probably a week or two.
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    Originally Posted by hanzosbm View Post
    That's good to know. I can try to get a video next time I do squats. Would front or side likely be the best angle?
    More side than front.
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    The wider your stance, the more adductor you will bring in.

    I find using the “good girl” hip adductor machine really helps with strains and soreness there since it, you know, strengthens the adductors.
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    Video as requested.

    It's not a lot of weight, I know, but gotta start somewhere.
    I also hadn't previously realized that I wasn't even getting down to 90°. I tried going lower with just body weight and I keep falling over.
    My working theory is that due to many, serious ankle injuries in my past, I probably have terrible ankle flexibility leading my lower legs to stay relatively perpendicular with the floor. So the only way to go lower basically has me sitting further back.
    Definitely need to work on that.

    https://youtu.be/aPMmse-NZTw
    Last edited by hanzosbm; 12-10-2021 at 01:44 PM.
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    Originally Posted by hanzosbm View Post
    Video as requested.

    It's not a lot of weight, I know, but gotta start somewhere.
    I also hadn't previously realized that I wasn't even getting down to 90°. I tried going lower with just body weight and I keep falling over.
    My working theory is that due to many, serious ankle injuries in my past, I probably have terrible ankle flexibility leading my lower legs to stay relatively perpendicular with the floor. So the only way to go lower basically has me sitting further back.
    Definitely need to work on that.

    https://youtu.be/OHKJwflXlis
    Depending on the nature of your ankle injuries, the tendons and tissues can get super tight. Try doing calf raises then stretch the hell out of them before you squat, and see if that makes any difference.
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    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hanzosbm View Post
    My working theory is that due to many, serious ankle injuries in my past, I probably have terrible ankle flexibility leading my lower legs to stay relatively perpendicular with the floor. So the only way to go lower basically has me sitting further back.
    Even if you have poor ankle mobility, you'd be able to maintain balance by leaning your torso forward. Sitting back is not the problem.

    This is a pic of Jordan Feigenbaum at the bottom of his squat. He has a lot of forward lean.

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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    Even if you have poor ankle mobility, you'd be able to maintain balance by leaning your torso forward. Sitting back is not the problem.

    This is a pic of Jordan Feigenbaum at the bottom of his squat. He has a lot of forward lean.

    Well, yes, that's fair, but I guess my concern with doing that it puts additional strain on the lower back. Might not be much strain with really good form, but I've already caught myself hinging too much at the hips at times. I guess I can always unload the bar and give it a shot.
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    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    If you're falling over backwards, you're not hinging enough.
    Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
    Galatians 4:16
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    If you're falling over backwards, you're not hinging enough.
    I'll give it a shot.
    For what it's worth, I found something on the ol' interwebs saying to put your foot a handwidth away from the wall and try to then touch your knee to the wall. I couldn't reach. In short, I can't get my knee more than maybe an inch in front of my toes.
    Regardless of whether I can accomplish a deeper squat by bending over at the waist, I think that's still something I need to address.
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    Yes you are breaking at your legs but not pointing your hip back with your thighs.
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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    Yes you are breaking at your legs but not pointing your hip back with your thighs.
    Can you please elaborate? I'm afraid I just don't understand.
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    Originally Posted by hanzosbm View Post
    I'll give it a shot.
    For what it's worth, I found something on the ol' interwebs saying to put your foot a handwidth away from the wall and try to then touch your knee to the wall. I couldn't reach. In short, I can't get my knee more than maybe an inch in front of my toes.
    Regardless of whether I can accomplish a deeper squat by bending over at the waist, I think that's still something I need to address.
    This is why a lot of people wear heeled shoes to help get around this issue.
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    Originally Posted by hanzosbm View Post
    Can you please elaborate? I'm afraid I just don't understand.
    It means your descending by bending your knees in, which is normal. With squatting though you have to engage the whole thigh not only at the knee end but the hip as well. Use general tension of the thigh to both bend at the knee, as you are doing, and also rotate the hip end of the entire thigh just enough to control the descent of the hip basket. With practice, it should help keep the bottom end of your spine straight while being able to descend further.
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    Originally Posted by hanzosbm View Post
    Video as requested.

    It's not a lot of weight, I know, but gotta start somewhere.
    I also hadn't previously realized that I wasn't even getting down to 90°. I tried going lower with just body weight and I keep falling over.
    My working theory is that due to many, serious ankle injuries in my past, I probably have terrible ankle flexibility leading my lower legs to stay relatively perpendicular with the floor. So the only way to go lower basically has me sitting further back.
    Definitely need to work on that.[/url]
    Don't work your way "up" in weight when you can't come anywhere close to parallel. Work on your form, balance and going deeper instead of coming up with reasons why you can only 1/4 squat. Widen your stance & set the safeties lower.
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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    It means your descending by bending your knees in, which is normal. With squatting though you have to engage the whole thigh not only at the knee end but the hip as well. Use general tension of the thigh to both bend at the knee, as you are doing, and also rotate the hip end of the entire thigh just enough to control the descent of the hip basket. With practice, it should help keep the bottom end of your spine straight while being able to descend further.
    I think I'm following. I had been operating under the assumption that I needed to keep my torso straight (or at least unchanged) through the entire movement, and it sounds like I was wrong about that.
    I think I need to unload the bar, set up my camera and experiment a bit.
    Thinking back on it, all the gyms I've joined in my lifetime always had one free class with a personal trainer. I really wish that just once, instead of running me through every exercise they could think of, one of them would have just taught me proper form of basic lifts. In short, I really appreciate the folks on here who try to help out people like me. I know that's no small ask when talking via a keyboard.
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    Forgot to mention two things above:

    - You shouldn't be bouncing the bar off the safeties on each rep & rattling your rack. In addition to allowing you to go lower, you should lower the safeties so you're forced to control your squat & not hit the safeties at all. Take the padding off the safeties since they prob encourage you to hit them.

    - You should squat facing the hooks so you don't have to back up to re-rack.

    Many trainers can't squat properly so if you want in-person help, try to find a proper coach or a reputable trainer. But if you try to learn basic fundamentals seriously on your own first and then increase weight, you'll prob be fine.
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    Originally Posted by hanzosbm View Post
    I think I'm following. I had been operating under the assumption that I needed to keep my torso straight (or at least unchanged) through the entire movement, and it sounds like I was wrong about that.
    I think I need to unload the bar, set up my camera and experiment a bit.
    Thinking back on it, all the gyms I've joined in my lifetime always had one free class with a personal trainer. I really wish that just once, instead of running me through every exercise they could think of, one of them would have just taught me proper form of basic lifts. In short, I really appreciate the folks on here who try to help out people like me. I know that's no small ask when talking via a keyboard.
    The bar should find and maintain balance over your feet, from the top to the bottom. It looks like the bar goes straight down and up in your video, but you're not pushing your hips back. It's just a matter of engaging the full thigh. Your torso shouldn't necessarily be straight up or down, it's a matter of balancing the bar while keeping your spine supported.

    There's also the brought up issue of the safety bar. Probably better information coming from a demonstration without the thing, but otherwise it looks like you were discharging quite a bit each rep, along with the fact that you said you didn't notice how low you were going before you saw the vid, so it seemed like a consistent stretch for what you could get out of the legs in that position.

    re: falling over. The bodyweight squat is a slightly different mechanic without the bar to balance, so it's a common disposition when trying to train the body to squat farther with barbell squats in mind.
    Last edited by GeneralSerpant; 12-11-2021 at 11:31 AM.
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    Thank you all for the feedback.

    The safeties were originally set below where I could get to. On the plus side, that means that I've made some progress, but on the other end, as indicated, I now need to lower them.
    The pads are a bit of a necessary compromise. In the video, you can hear my wife and kids playing, but typically my workouts are done around 5am before work and before anyone is up and they're used to keep things quiet.
    But, if I lower the safeties sufficiently, I SHOULDN'T ever come in contact with them until I fail a set. So, to your point, I shouldn't be using them to bounce the weight.

    I'll keep working on this and try to take some more videos to get additional feedback.
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    hanzosbm is offline
    Today was squat day, so I started with an empty bar and then put some weight on it. I THINK I'm now going deep enough, but I could probably still go deeper if I worked on stretching, etc.
    It was a little demoralizing since I am squatting barely any weight and still can't get many reps, but it is what it is for now.
    Any pointers on my form? I'm a little paranoid about butt wink since I'm pushing myself to go lower than before.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/mwOTa3pM4Ko?feature=share
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    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    air2fakie is offline
    Originally Posted by hanzosbm View Post
    Today was squat day, so I started with an empty bar and then put some weight on it. I THINK I'm now going deep enough, but I could probably still go deeper if I worked on stretching, etc.
    It was a little demoralizing since I am squatting barely any weight and still can't get many reps, but it is what it is for now.
    Any pointers on my form? I'm a little paranoid about butt wink since I'm pushing myself to go lower than before.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/mwOTa3pM4Ko?feature=share
    Much improved from last time. Your depth is fine, I wouldn't go any deeper. Think your squat would look better if you worked on breathing & bracing. Also, don't look up the entire time.

    Still think you should get used to facing the hooks now instead of away. As you put more weight on the bar, you don't want to be re-racking backwards at the end of a heavy squat session.

    Embedded video below for others:

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  23. #23
    Registered User hanzosbm's Avatar
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    hanzosbm is offline
    Originally Posted by air2fakie View Post
    Much improved from last time. Your depth is fine, I wouldn't go any deeper. Think your squat would look better if you worked on breathing & bracing. Also, don't look up the entire time.

    Still think you should get used to facing the hooks now instead of away. As you put more weight on the bar, you don't want to be re-racking backwards at the end of a heavy squat session.

    Embedded video below for others:

    Thank you for all of the above.

    Yeah, I remembered the hooks were backwards and the previous comment after I loaded the bar, and frankly, I was too lazy to change it then. Not only would it save me from re-racking backwards, but my cage is pretty narrow and I've caught my finger before (ouch!). Going forward would reduce the likelihood of doing that again.

    Breathing and bracing; okay, I can definitely look into those, thank you!
    And also thanks for embedding that video. I was trying to figure out how to do that and now I can see how you did it. I'm learning all kinds of new things.
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