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  1. #1
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    Alpha Destiny 185 lbs to 145 lbs

    I thought this was a pretty cool video. I’m not big into YouTube fitness but I do like this channel. Alex benched 405 at 185 lbs last year and just got done cutting to 145 lbs at around 7 percent body fat. I do believe that he is natural. He is a prime example of why you don’t need crazy volume or frequency as a natural. I think he averaged 12 sets per week for chest to hit 405. He’s always followed a basic fb or upper lower system. Guy is a monster.

    https://youtu.be/oOe5O85nvCA
    https://youtu.be/Nxka9KSLTQM
    Last edited by TAWS6; 11-26-2021 at 05:55 PM.
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    Registered User Darkius's Avatar
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    True, though his specialty is strength, not body building, 1RM, not 20RM. I never heard of strength specialists doing lots of volume, but not that I'd know.



    Strength training makes you a ninja. Bodybuilding makes you able to do lots of work.
    Novice lifter who sticks to the basics 3x per week but likes to theorize about improvements while recovering.
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    Registered User TAWS6's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Darkius View Post
    True, though his specialty is strength, not body building, 1RM, not 20RM. I never heard of strength specialists doing lots of volume, but not that I'd know.



    Strength training makes you a ninja. Bodybuilding makes you able to do lots of work.
    He does plenty of hypertrophy work now and could legit compete in any natural bodybuilding comp. His program had high volume upper days at one point. Well high volume for a natural lol
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    Originally Posted by Darkius View Post
    True, though his specialty is strength, not body building, 1RM, not 20RM. I never heard of strength specialists doing lots of volume, but not that I'd know.



    Strength training makes you a ninja. Bodybuilding makes you able to do lots of work.
    Hypertrophy drives strength. Anyone who cares about strength should dedicate 80% of their training towards hypertrophy or ‘bodybuilding’. The other 20% should be heavy skill work with loads >85% of 1RM.

    Alex was on conjugate for a long time in achieving his 405 bench, which essentially turned into an intensity day/volume day upper lower split - a popular style of training amongst bodybuilders. The difference lies in the intent of the supplemental volume. A strength person pumps volume into ‘objectively’ lagging muscles to drive numbers in the main lifts, whereas a bodybuilder pumps volume into ‘subjectively’ lagging muscles to achieve a desired look. Alex cared about both.
    Last edited by leidenesLK; 11-26-2021 at 07:44 PM.
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    Originally Posted by leidenesLK View Post
    Hypertrophy drives strength. Anyone who cares about strength should dedicate 80% of their training towards hypertrophy or ‘bodybuilding’. The other 20% should be heavy skill work with loads >85% of 1RM.

    Alex was on conjugate for a long time in achieving his 405 bench, which essentially turned into an intensity day/volume day split - a popular style of training amongst bodybuilders. The difference lies in the intent of the supplemental volume. A strength person pumps volume into ‘objectively’ lagging muscles to drive numbers in the main lifts, whereas a bodybuilder pumps volume into ‘subjectively’ lagging muscles to achieve a desired look. Alex cared about both.
    Also “strength” training at its core has progressive tension overload built in. All big naturals are strong. Alex is a perfect example of this. I also trained similar with a phat style upper lower more geared towards hypertrophy.
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    Also “strength” training at its core has progressive tension overload built in. All big naturals are strong. Alex is a perfect example of this. I also trained similar with a phat style upper lower more geared towards hypertrophy.
    Yep, proper strength training is near-maximal hyp training too. The most common misconception about strength training is that low reps (85%+) are the primary driver of strength, but it’s really just the finishing touch. Progressive overload is the result of a sufficient training response, which will bury you beyond novice if you exclusively try to get it from low reps. It’s why I don’t like ‘strength phases’ seen in linear periodization. It’s just suboptimal volume, resulting in a poor training response. You need to be growing year round + low rep work for neurological skill.

    A lot of these heavy/light hyp-based routines can actually be great strength routines with a bit of specificity thrown in with comp, supplemental lifts etc.
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    That is a very impressive transformation, and an extremely impressive bench. Did he say how much he lost off his bench with the weight loss? Does he train squats/deadlifts too? The video primarily focuses on upper body highlights so it's not clear.
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  8. #8
    Registered User TAWS6's Avatar
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    He lost a lot. Probably 100 lbs. that’s one of the reasons I don’t go under 12 percent anymore.
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    Registered User TAWS6's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by leidenesLK View Post
    A lot of these heavy/light hyp-based routines can actually be great strength routines with a bit of specificity thrown in with comp, supplemental lifts etc.
    Sure can. He also used specialization cycles before. Those are also effective for someone at his level. Rotating lifts/ muscle groups while maintaining others.
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    He lost a lot. Probably 100 lbs. that’s one of the reasons I don’t go under 12 percent anymore.

    I heard that 25 year olds can be healthy year round at 8-11% bf depending on genetics, some 8, some 11. But more is needed as you get older. I don't know why competitions encourage lower values. Their testosterone drops, and that is just one problem.

    12% sounds nice though. Looks better when your shirt is on, too.
    Novice lifter who sticks to the basics 3x per week but likes to theorize about improvements while recovering.
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    Originally Posted by Darkius View Post
    I heard that 25 year olds can be healthy year round at 8-11% bf depending on genetics, some 8, some 11. But more is needed as you get older. I don't know why competitions encourage lower values. Their testosterone drops, and that is just one problem.

    12% sounds nice though. Looks better when your shirt is on, too.
    Single digits is when things stop working lol. 12-15 is good for me.
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    I thought this was a pretty cool video. I’m not big into YouTube fitness but I do like this channel. Alex benched 405 at 185 lbs last year and just got done cutting to 145 lbs at around 7 percent body fat. I do believe that he is natural. He is a prime example of why you don’t need crazy volume or frequency as a natural. I think he averaged 12 sets per week for chest to hit 405. He’s always followed a basic fb or upper lower system. Guy is a monster.

    https://youtu.be/oOe5O85nvCA
    https://youtu.be/Nxka9KSLTQM
    Yeah….definitely not a natural.

    Be it SARMS or a low test cycle, primo, etc…

    He is on something.
    Age: 29

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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    Yeah….definitely not a natural.

    Be it SARMS or a low test cycle, primo, etc…

    He is on something.
    Nah he’s usually 165 lbs. that’s nothing crazy for a lean natty
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    Nah he’s usually 165 lbs. that’s nothing crazy for a lean natty
    He is also 5’ 5” with 18 inch arms a mountains for traps.
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    He is also 5’ 5” with 18 inch arms a mountains for traps.
    I think his arms were 16 or so. I say natural with elite genetics. If he was 200 lean I’d probably say other wise. Most naturals I see compete in the low 160s.
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    I think his arms were 16 or so. I say natural with elite genetics. If he was 200 lean I’d probably say other wise. Most naturals I see compete in the low 160s.
    He does not have elite genetics lol.

    And 5’5” 200 lean? Lol wtf just throwing out random numbers.
    the latest and greatest in training...or whatever.

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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    I thought this was a pretty cool video. I’m not big into YouTube fitness but I do like this channel. Alex benched 405 at 185 lbs last year and just got done cutting to 145 lbs at around 7 percent body fat. I do believe that he is natural. He is a prime example of why you don’t need crazy volume or frequency as a natural. I think he averaged 12 sets per week for chest to hit 405. He’s always followed a basic fb or upper lower system. Guy is a monster.

    https://youtu.be/oOe5O85nvCA
    https://youtu.be/Nxka9KSLTQM
    What do you think his starting body fat was?

    Interesting his leaness did not apoear to change much as he shrank. I bet he lost muscle.


    Also, since he only did 1 one-arm pull up, I guess that means I have no chance of ever doing one.


    If he is not natty, then there are a lot of fit guys doing roids.
    Novice lifter who sticks to the basics 3x per week but likes to theorize about improvements while recovering.
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    Originally Posted by Darkius View Post
    What do you think his starting body fat was?

    Interesting his leaness did not apoear to change much as he shrank. I bet he lost muscle.


    Also, since he only did 1 one-arm pull up, I guess that means I have no chance of ever doing one.


    If he is not natty, then there are a lot of fit guys doing roids.
    Considering he lost 100lbs off his bench there’s definitely some muscle loss. That’s a pretty steep strength difference.

    Unless he was utilizing supps to retain.

    All I will say is there are people who look average and also like pure **** who do copious amounts of things and people you think would be using who are just genetically gifted.

    So you honestly don’t know, so don’t even bother worrying about it.

    Just focus on being the best version of you whatever it is.
    the latest and greatest in training...or whatever.

    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177744461&page=3
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    Originally Posted by Filmbuff81 View Post
    He does not have elite genetics lol.

    And 5’5” 200 lean? Lol wtf just throwing out random numbers.
    If he doesn’t have elite genetics for lifting then who does lol. How many 405 benches have you seen? Nearly no one gets there at a regular weight. Maybe a 300 lb guy but no one his size

    The class with the biggest naturals compete in the 165s. If he was well above that I’d say he’s probably using. That was my whole point. In reality we don’t actually know if he’s using or not. I’d lean towards probably not but that’s just my opinion based on me following his progress for years. I’ve never seen any rapid jumps just slow gains.
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    Originally Posted by Darkius View Post
    What do you think his starting body fat was?

    Interesting his leaness did not apoear to change much as he shrank. I bet he lost muscle.


    Also, since he only did 1 one-arm pull up, I guess that means I have no chance of ever doing one.


    If he is not natty, then there are a lot of fit guys doing roids.
    He started in the low 20s I’d say. He def lost a lot of muscle. That’s very common in naturals. That’s another reason I’m leaning natural. Cell tech users always get pealed to the bone and keep the muscle. Funny thing is now he doesn’t even look like he lifts in a shirt..
    Last edited by TAWS6; 11-27-2021 at 10:59 AM.
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    If he doesn’t have elite genetics for lifting then who does lol. How many 405 benches have you seen? Nearly no one gets there at a regular weight. Maybe a 300 lb guy but no one his size

    The class with the biggest naturals compete in the 165s. If he was well above that I’d say he’s probably using. That was my whole point. In reality we don’t actually know if he’s using or not. I’d lean towards probably not but that’s just my opinion based on me following his progress for years. I’ve never seen any rapid jumps just slow gains.
    My point is you’re trying to say 5’5” 200 lean would make you think not natty.

    And I’m saying trying to throw a random number out there is silly to use that as a barometer of someone being on supps or not.

    There’s ton of fat guys using and tons of average looking dudes too.

    And I’m not saying it’s not impressive. It’s a great lift but there are tons of strong guys out there. I guess I would’ve been more impressed if it was a comp pause and he didn’t almost drop it back down on himself.

    I was assuming you meant he had elite genetics for bodybuilding since you said he could compete in any natural fed, and I would say that’s pretty suspect. His arms alone are not impressive enough.

    I mean he could enter sure, but he wouldn’t place high. And that’s based only on his upper body. I don’t know what his legs are like.
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    I thought this was a pretty cool video. I’m not big into YouTube fitness but I do like this channel. Alex benched 405 at 185 lbs last year and just got done cutting to 145 lbs at around 7 percent body fat. I do believe that he is natural. He is a prime example of why you don’t need crazy volume or frequency as a natural. I think he averaged 12 sets per week for chest to hit 405. He’s always followed a basic fb or upper lower system. Guy is a monster.

    https://youtu.be/oOe5O85nvCA
    https://youtu.be/Nxka9KSLTQM
    I used to think he wasn’t natty but after he posted that vid and talked about the side effects of getting lean etc I believe he is.

    Also natty or not, he has solid content. One of the good youtubers IMO.
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    If he doesn’t have elite genetics for lifting then who does lol. How many 405 benches have you seen? Nearly no one gets there at a regular weight. Maybe a 300 lb guy but no one his size

    The class with the biggest naturals compete in the 165s. If he was well above that I’d say he’s probably using. That was my whole point. In reality we don’t actually know if he’s using or not. I’d lean towards probably not but that’s just my opinion based on me following his progress for years. I’ve never seen any rapid jumps just slow gains.
    I’ve seen 3 4-plate benchers.

    One is my size, roughly 280 at 6’ (I’m 287 for reference but 40 lbs of body fat so 247 LBM). Rarely ever benches just a big muscular dude with a decent amount of BF as well.

    The other has been physically active his whole life, played lacrosse all through college and is a power lifter on the side and a trainer. All around good lifter.

    The other is about 174 at 5’6” but he is a joke. Super twink arch and ass is clear off the bench with maybe a 2” ROM. Absolute garbage at any lift he can’t “cheat” the weight up. Squats super high and deadlifts, sumo of course, with straps. Needless to say he would get called on everything if he actually went to a meet.
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    ^^

    No offense, but how are you so sure you would be stage lean at 260?

    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    If he doesn’t have elite genetics for lifting then who does lol. How many 405 benches have you seen? Nearly no one gets there at a regular weight. Maybe a 300 lb guy but no one his size
    I have seen it.

    I workout with someone easily 20-22% who has done it weighing about 220, and another guy who was certainly big overall but not visibly obese. I also spotted a decline 405 from someone who was nearly lean. It is decline, but still.

    I think natural potential tends to be underrated - at least as far as acute performance goes, not with continuous recovery abilities and the amount of volume you can regularly train with. I have no trouble believing that a light lifter can put up 405 with extreme dedication and long career of training well.
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    ^^

    No offense, but how are you so sure you would be stage lean at 260?

    If that was for me, “stage lean” would put me between 9-15% body fat. Dropping 40 lbs of fat would put me (I suspect anyway) at 16-17% BF.
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    If that was for me, “stage lean” would put me between 9-15% body fat. Dropping 40 lbs of fat would put me (I suspect anyway) at 16-17% BF.
    These guesses are always way off and you'd probably need to drop more like 80-90 pounds most of which would be fat. Been there done that - started at 240 pounds (at 5'11'') years ago thinking I would easily be 200 lbs at 15%. 6 years later, I've revised that goal to 180 at sub 15% and still not there lol - I am 185-190 now and probably close to 20% BF.
    Last edited by EiFit91; 11-28-2021 at 12:23 PM.
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    Originally Posted by EiFit91 View Post
    These guesses are always way off and you'd probably need to drop more like 80-90 pounds most of which would be fat. Been there done that - started at 240 pounds (at 5'11'') years ago thinking I would easily be 200 lbs at 15%. 6 years later, I've revised that goal to 180 at sub 15% and still not there lol - I am 185-190 now and probably close to 20% BF.
    To get in the ball park or 9-12% you’re right.
    But you know, baby steps.

    I think I’m gonna start doing more exercises that emphasize leanness then just ball busting strength. Deficit pushups, dips, inverted rows and rack chins, etc

    The closest I ever was to 12% BF was when I was 211 about 6 years ago, but I wasn’t carrying around nearly the amount of muscle as I am now. And I’ve only been training consistently since last October.
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    To get in the ball park or 9-12% you’re right.
    But you know, baby steps.

    I think I’m gonna start doing more exercises that emphasize leanness then just ball busting strength. Deficit pushups, dips, inverted rows and rack chins, etc

    The closest I ever was to 12% BF was when I was 211 about 6 years ago, but I wasn’t carrying around nearly the amount of muscle as I am now. And I’ve only been training consistently since last October.
    What’s your waist measurement?
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    Originally Posted by EiFit91 View Post
    What’s your waist measurement?
    I haven’t the foggiest.

    I need to get me a tape measure because I am gonna start keeping measurements.
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    Originally Posted by BeginnerGainz View Post
    To get in the ball park or 9-12% you’re right.
    But you know, baby steps.

    I think I’m gonna start doing more exercises that emphasize leanness then just ball busting strength. Deficit pushups, dips, inverted rows and rack chins, etc

    The closest I ever was to 12% BF was when I was 211 about 6 years ago, but I wasn’t carrying around nearly the amount of muscle as I am now. And I’ve only been training consistently since last October.
    That sounds about right to me, but you did specifically say you have 40 pounds of fat and an LBM of 247. Unless I'm missing something or you misspoke, that means you're claiming to be at 14% right now, at 287. I don't doubt that you carry a lot of muscle but there's still no way that could be true, of course.
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