Reply
Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Registered User Darkius's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2016
    Age: 38
    Posts: 2,483
    Rep Power: 6655
    Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Darkius is offline

    Time under tension myth?

    https://muscleevo.net/time-under-tension/

    That article cites many studies that say not only does slowing reps down fail to build more muscle, it also reduces strength gains. It says 20 second sets can make just as much muscle as 50 second ones, as can 70+ seconds sets.

    Seems to answer my question about some apparent contradictions. Also, when I use a heavy weight, which makes me fail at 50 seconds in this case, I took longer than 1 second to lift it, even with maximum effort.




    Thoughts?
    Novice lifter who sticks to the basics 3x per week but likes to theorize about improvements while recovering.
    Reply With Quote

  2. #2
    Unregistered User MyEgoProblem's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2015
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Posts: 7,104
    Rep Power: 58993
    MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) MyEgoProblem has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    MyEgoProblem is offline
    **** knows where you guys find this **** 😂

    In general- Take sets of 6-20~ close to failure for hyp.
    Job done.

    Might be 6@8 or 20@10 Or 10@9
    The higher rep the set the closer to failure and its Basically the same deal for any of it

    No one cares about how long a set takes.
    Just do the reps close enough to failure (0_2reps) and do enough said throughout the week over 2 or more sessions.

    Stop trying to over complicate it.
    FMH crew - Couch.
    Washed up meathead

    Masters lifter.. With a lot less F's left to give
    Reply With Quote

  3. #3
    Registered User Xpiro's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2019
    Age: 52
    Posts: 745
    Rep Power: 3728
    Xpiro is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Xpiro is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Xpiro is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Xpiro is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Xpiro is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Xpiro is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Xpiro is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Xpiro is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Xpiro is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Xpiro is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) Xpiro is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    Xpiro is offline
    Personally I slow down negatives for most stuff to keep myself under control and maintain tension at all bc I tend to get sloppy if I don’t. Might not be optimal, but if I’m consistent and moving up it doesn’t really matter right? Especially if my form goes to **** with the alternative.
    Reply With Quote

  4. #4
    Registered User Darkius's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2016
    Age: 38
    Posts: 2,483
    Rep Power: 6655
    Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000) Darkius is a name known to all. (+5000)
    Darkius is offline
    Originally Posted by Xpiro View Post
    Personally I slow down negatives for most stuff to keep myself under control and maintain tension at all bc I tend to get sloppy if I don’t. Might not be optimal, but if I’m consistent and moving up it doesn’t really matter right? Especially if my form goes to **** with the alternative.
    I do the negative just slowly enough so I don't accidentally slam myself. Much slower than that would be too tiring.
    Novice lifter who sticks to the basics 3x per week but likes to theorize about improvements while recovering.
    Reply With Quote

  5. #5
    Registered User BeginnerGainz's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2019
    Age: 52
    Posts: 7,182
    Rep Power: 41795
    BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) BeginnerGainz has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    BeginnerGainz is offline
    Originally Posted by Darkius View Post
    https://muscleevo.net/time-under-tension/

    That article cites many studies that say not only does slowing reps down fail to build more muscle, it also reduces strength gains. It says 20 second sets can make just as much muscle as 50 second ones, as can 70+ seconds sets.

    Seems to answer my question about some apparent contradictions. Also, when I use a heavy weight, which makes me fail at 50 seconds in this case, I took longer than 1 second to lift it, even with maximum effort.




    Thoughts?
    Lots.
    Age: 29

    "If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants"
    -Sir Isaac Newton
    Reply With Quote

  6. #6
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2007
    Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Posts: 53,551
    Rep Power: 1335285
    SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz
    SuffolkPunch is offline
    It makes sense. Slowing reps down might make it feel hard but there is no substitute for genuine exertion.

    In a good set, effectiveness will strongly correlate with TUT but TUT is NOT the causal factor.
    Reply With Quote

  7. #7
    Registered User coachcalande's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2015
    Age: 56
    Posts: 2,293
    Rep Power: 9423
    coachcalande is a name known to all. (+5000) coachcalande is a name known to all. (+5000) coachcalande is a name known to all. (+5000) coachcalande is a name known to all. (+5000) coachcalande is a name known to all. (+5000) coachcalande is a name known to all. (+5000) coachcalande is a name known to all. (+5000) coachcalande is a name known to all. (+5000) coachcalande is a name known to all. (+5000) coachcalande is a name known to all. (+5000) coachcalande is a name known to all. (+5000)
    coachcalande is offline
    Slower reps does not mean longer TUT.

    Slow=measure of speed, not time.

    I can do 10-12 reps fast or slow it down and only get 5-6 reps….

    The TUT could still be the same.


    There are however studies that show changes in post exercise growth indicators based on rep speed.
    "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

    Old Guy deadlifting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zMrim-0Dks
    bench press https://youtu.be/GaRzfueJVJQ

    Every workout is GAME DAY!
    Reply With Quote

  8. #8
    Registered User kennycroxdale's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2009
    Posts: 2,293
    Rep Power: 0
    kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500)
    kennycroxdale is offline
    Originally Posted by Darkius View Post
    https://muscleevo.net/time-under-tension/

    That article cites many studies that say not only does slowing reps down fail to build more muscle, it also reduces strength gains. It says 20 second sets can make just as much muscle as 50 second ones, as can 70+ seconds sets.
    '

    Time Under Tension

    To some extent it plays a role with increasing muscle mass.

    Before getting into that let's look a the three things increase muscle mass.

    1) Mechanical Tension

    This Maximum Strength Training.

    Increasing strength allows you to perform heavy loads in a Hypertrophy Training Sets; 8 Repetition plus.

    2) Metabolic Stress

    Time Under Tension falls into this category.

    When muscles contract in an exercise, Venous Blood Flow from the muscle back to the heart is restricted.

    The blood is trapped in the muscles, creating "The Pump" and "The Burn". That due to an increase in Lactate in the Muscles; not Lactic Acid, which is something different.

    The increase in Muscle Lactate produces a downstream effect that trigger the anabolic, muscle building effect.

    Thus, Super Slow Protocol (slow repetition with constant tension on the muscles) as well as moderate to high repetition will trigger muscle growth.

    3) Muscle Damage

    This is the third component with increasing muscle mass.

    a) At some point pushing the muscle in a movement to failure or near failure.

    b) Full Range Exercise that fully stretch the muscles in an exercise: Dumbbell Bench Press that allow you to fully stretch the muscle in the bottom position. Full Squats, that completely stretch the legs.

    Decreased Strength

    An exercise that is performed longer than 15 seconds, decreases Maximum Strength, Power and Speed.

    Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber are engaged for 15 seconds and then run out of gas, ATP.

    After 15 seconds, the Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber are engaged. Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber build Endurance but not Strength.

    Cluster Set Hypertrophy Training

    This method (Dr Jonathan Oliver) determined that Cluster Set Hypertrophy Training allowed athletes to increase/maintain Maximum Strength, Power and Speed, as well as increase muscle mass.

    While it wasn't as effective as Traditional Hypertrophy Bodybuilding Training for increasing muscle mass, it was a close second.

    That due to the fact that Traditional Hypertrophy Bodybuilding Training produce more Lactate; which drive the anabolic, muscle building effect.

    The Issue With Traditional Hypertrophy Training

    When solely performed, muscle mass is gained at the expense of Strength; Strength drop like a rock.
    I guarantee it will Never work, if you Never try it.
    Reply With Quote

  9. #9
    Registered User TheShadowMan's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2014
    Posts: 2,709
    Rep Power: 18838
    TheShadowMan is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) TheShadowMan is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) TheShadowMan is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) TheShadowMan is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) TheShadowMan is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) TheShadowMan is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) TheShadowMan is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) TheShadowMan is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) TheShadowMan is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) TheShadowMan is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) TheShadowMan is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    TheShadowMan is offline
    A muscle that works longer, works harder. But, growth needs more than just that factor in play.
    Back to basics full body routine: https://pastebin.com/5BgKgrMv

    Training journal: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=178059671&p=1598034261#post1598034261
    Reply With Quote

  10. #10
    joe joewattie's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2004
    Location: rochester, ny
    Age: 74
    Posts: 135
    Rep Power: 1785
    joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000)
    joewattie is offline
    This post really intrigued me. I've heard of "Time Under Tension". Even tried it. It was boring. I compromised. I worked on "good form".

    I just finished reading everything. Understood about half of it. Sounds like TUT is a factor, but not *the* factor?

    My silly analogy might be to compare the legs of two runners side by side. A long distance runner and a sprinter. The thickness of the legs of a long distance runner pale compared to the size of a sprinter's. A long distance runner gets lots of "TUT". Apparently there are more factors at play?
    joe Henry
    Reply With Quote

  11. #11
    Registered User kennycroxdale's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2009
    Posts: 2,293
    Rep Power: 0
    kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500) kennycroxdale is not very helpful. (-500)
    kennycroxdale is offline
    Originally Posted by joewattie View Post
    Sounds like TUT is a factor, but not *the* factor?

    Time Under Tension

    It's one of the factors but not the only one.

    The information that I posted on Schoenfeld's Hypertrophy Research determined three factors contributed to an optimal increase in muscle mass.

    1) Mechanical Tension

    2) Metabolic Stress

    3) Muscle Damage

    The Pump" and "The Burn"

    These two elements are produced by maintaining constant tension, a contraction, in the exercise.

    Arterial Blood Flow

    When muscles are exercised, blood is shuttled to the muscles.

    Venous Blood Flow

    This is blood flow from the muscle back to the heart.

    When a muscle is contracted it restricts blood flow back to the heart; it has a tourniquet like effect.

    Blood is trapped in the muscles. The muscle balloon up, which produces "The Pump".

    Secondly, Lactate (not Lactic Acid, that is different) floods the muscle.

    The downstream effect of Lactate is that it triggers an anabolic muscle building effect.

    Originally Posted by joewattie View Post
    My silly analogy might be to compare the legs of two runners side by side. A long distance runner and a sprinter. The thickness of the legs of a long distance runner pale compared to the size of a sprinter's. A long distance runner gets lots of "TUT".
    Not A Good Analogy

    There are a multitude of issues with this analogy.

    1) Genetics

    Athletes tend to gravitate toward the sport they are build for.

    Sprinters are build for it. They have a greater percentage of Fast Twitch Type IIb/x Muscle Fiber (Explosive Muscle Fiber).

    Distance Runner are build for endurance. They have a greater percentage of Type I Muscle Fiber (Endurance Muscle Fiber).

    There are others factors that contribute to it, as well.

    2) Explosive Movements

    These type of movement develop the larger, stronger, Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber; not the Slower Type I Muscle Fiber.

    Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber burn out after 15 second or less in Power and/or Strength Movements.

    Once they burn out, the larger, stronger Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber are no long working or being trained.

    The Slower Type I Muscle Fiber are engaged, trained and developed.

    This has to do with "The Size Principle"...google it for more details.

    3) Endurance Athletes

    This type of athlete and training develops the smaller, Type I Muscle Fiber; not the larger Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber.

    Secondly, too much Endurance Training leads a decrease in Power, Strength and Muscle Mass.

    Third, there isn't that much Time Under Tension for Distance Runners. With each stride, one leg is allowed to relax; tension is reduced in the muscle.

    This allows..

    a) Venous Blood Flow from the leg muscles back to the heart; there is "No Pump".

    b) With each stride, the muscles are allowed to relax; no constant Time Under Tension occurs; Lactate build up in the muscles is negated.
    Last edited by kennycroxdale; 11-28-2021 at 06:54 AM.
    I guarantee it will Never work, if you Never try it.
    Reply With Quote

  12. #12
    joe joewattie's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2004
    Location: rochester, ny
    Age: 74
    Posts: 135
    Rep Power: 1785
    joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000) joewattie is just really nice. (+1000)
    joewattie is offline
    Originally Posted by kennycroxdale View Post
    Time Under Tension

    It's one of the factors but not the only one.

    The information that I posted on Schoenfeld's Hypertrophy Research determined three factors contributed to an optimal increase in muscle mass.

    1) Mechanical Tension

    2) Metabolic Stress

    3) Muscle Damage

    The Pump" and "The Burn"

    These two elements are produced by maintaining constant tension, a contraction, in the exercise.

    Arterial Blood Flow

    When muscles are exercised, blood is shuttled to the muscles.

    Venous Blood Flow

    This is blood flow from the muscle back to the heart.

    When a muscle is contracted it restricts blood flow back to the heart; it has a tourniquet like effect.

    Blood is trapped in the muscles. The muscle balloon up, which produces "The Pump".

    Secondly, Lactate (not Lactic Acid, that is different) floods the muscle.

    The downstream effect of Lactate is that it triggers an anabolic muscle building effect.



    Not A Good Analogy

    There are a multitude of issues with this analogy.

    1) Genetics

    Athletes tend to gravitate toward the sport they are build for.

    Sprinters are build for it. They have a greater percentage of Fast Twitch Type IIb/x Muscle Fiber (Explosive Muscle Fiber).

    Distance Runner are build for endurance. They have a greater percentage of Type I Muscle Fiber (Endurance Muscle Fiber).

    There are others factors that contribute to it, as well.

    2) Explosive Movements

    These type of movement develop the larger, stronger, Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber; not the Slower Type I Muscle Fiber.

    Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber burn out after 15 second or less in Power and/or Strength Movements.

    Once they burn out, the larger, stronger Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber are no long working or being trained.

    The Slower Type I Muscle Fiber are engaged, trained and developed.

    This has to do with "The Size Principle"...google it for more details.

    3) Endurance Athletes

    This type of athlete and training develops the smaller, Type I Muscle Fiber; not the larger Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber.

    Secondly, too much Endurance Training leads a decrease in Power, Strength and Muscle Mass.

    Third, there isn't that much Time Under Tension for Distance Runners. With each stride, one leg is allowed to relax; tension is reduced in the muscle.

    This allows..

    a) Venous Blood Flow from the leg muscles back to the heart; there is "No Pump".

    b) With each stride, the muscles are allowed to relax; no constant Time Under Tension occurs; Lactate build up in the muscles is negated.
    Just wanted to thank you for an awesome reply!
    joe Henry
    Reply With Quote

  13. #13
    Registered User Taatz's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2016
    Age: 36
    Posts: 129
    Rep Power: 95
    Taatz is on a distinguished road. (+10) Taatz is on a distinguished road. (+10) Taatz is on a distinguished road. (+10) Taatz is on a distinguished road. (+10) Taatz is on a distinguished road. (+10) Taatz is on a distinguished road. (+10) Taatz is on a distinguished road. (+10) Taatz is on a distinguished road. (+10) Taatz is on a distinguished road. (+10) Taatz is on a distinguished road. (+10) Taatz is on a distinguished road. (+10)
    Taatz is offline
    To some point TUT is very important but goin very slow just burns u out quickly and there is no point.
    Reply With Quote

  14. #14
    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2019
    Age: 52
    Posts: 5,970
    Rep Power: 19549
    air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000) air2fakie is a splendid one to behold. (+10000)
    air2fakie is offline
    Programming specifically for TUT can be counterproductive.

    Reply With Quote

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts