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  1. #1
    Registered User allrnder's Avatar
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    Shots fired at Lyle McDonald

    Bart agreed with him for most of this. Skip to 30 minutes where Lyle mocked carnivore diet people.

    He has offered to debate Lyle which would be interesting. Both can be brutal with insults lol

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3XDHc-3ndE
    Last edited by allrnder; 11-21-2021 at 03:19 PM.
    Alan Aragon, Brad Schoenfeld, Stu Phillips, Lyle McDonald. FTW.

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  2. #2
    Masstrophysicist Camarija's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by allrnder View Post
    Bart agreed with him for most of this. Skip to 30 minutes where Lyle mocked carnivore diet people.

    He has offered to debate Lyle which would be interesting. Both can be brutal with insults lol

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3XDHc-3ndE
    Hi allrnder,

    I've never heard of this bart guy before, is he a reputable source of information like the people in your signature, or just another pop-up fitness/nutrition guru?

    I've vaguely heard of the carnivore diet, but I never really understood the premise. The goal is to forgo 100% of carbs because... carbs are bad? As far as I'm aware, I thought carbs had a bunch of benefits... glycogen stores, preserving lean tissue on cuts, etc.

    I could see someone make a case for the body functioning without carbs in a very specific context, for example in terms of hypertrophy, but in terms of overall health... I'm not so sure.

    I'm not an expert, but Lyle is, and I agree with Lyle. How can a medical professional, or nutrition expert, actually recommend a diet with zero fiber? That seems like what would be the start and end of the 'debate' in one sentence.

    Also, just thinking about it from a perspective of missing out on food diversity, carnivore diet followers just miss out on certain vitamins and minerals for funsies? Vitamin K kind of a bad one to exclude from your diet for general health.

    Again, I don't know this Bart guy, but kind of feels like a pop-up nutrition guru chasing clout.
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  3. #3
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Camarija View Post
    I've vaguely heard of the carnivore diet, but I never really understood the premise. The goal is to forgo 100% of carbs because... carbs are bad? As far as I'm aware, I thought carbs had a bunch of benefits... glycogen stores, preserving lean tissue on cuts, etc.
    AFAIK, people like Jordan Peterson and his daughter were some of the early 'popular' proponents of this after the daughter did the diet to try and eliminate her specific immune disease issues.

    In THAT context, if someone was in SEVERE need of fixing an allergy, etc, I could see it being a last-resort method because very few people are allergic/intolerant to red meat/eggs etc.

    Red meat, and especially organ meat like liver, DOES have a high nutrient-content which would allow someone in the short term to actually get the micros they need without consuming potentially allergenic foods.

    HOWEVER, in the long term, the goal SHOULD be to reintroduce vegetables, fruits, etc and isolate specific irritants... instead, what people have done is drawn this out massively to suggest that just because specific people can't tolerate SOME plant foods, that's surely ALL plant foods are bad for you.

    It's nonsense.


    Originally Posted by Camarija View Post
    I could see someone make a case for the body functioning without carbs in a very specific context, for example in terms of hypertrophy, but in terms of overall health... I'm not so sure.
    Yup... and what's worse is that there's ZERO studies or evidence that it is healthful at all... and yet you have total lay people out there trying to pretend they're scientists meanwhile crashing their hormone levels and getting massively elevated lipid panels because they believe the silly dogma.

    Originally Posted by Camarija View Post
    I'm not an expert, but Lyle is, and I agree with Lyle. How can a medical professional, or nutrition expert, actually recommend a diet with zero fiber? That seems like what would be the start and end of the 'debate' in one sentence.
    It's honestly baffling to anyone who understand how beneficial phytonutrients, fiber, and other compounds exclusive to plant matter is... it doesn't take a genius to understand that things like dark berries and leafy green veggies promote health.

    Originally Posted by Camarija View Post
    Also, just thinking about it from a perspective of missing out on food diversity, carnivore diet followers just miss out on certain vitamins and minerals for funsies? Vitamin K kind of a bad one to exclude from your diet for general health.
    Oh they have arguments for that as well... believe me... they will do whatever they can to make it seem like the best thing since sliced bread... er... sliced liver.
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  4. #4
    Registered User EliKoehn's Avatar
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    Sliced liver lol. Was going to comment on the bread metaphor being out of place but I see you were ahead of me there.
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    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    Sliced liver lol. Was going to comment on the bread metaphor being out of place but I see you were ahead of me there.
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  6. #6
    Registered User allrnder's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Camarija View Post
    Hi allrnder,

    I've never heard of this bart guy before, is he a reputable source of information like the people in your signature, or just another pop-up fitness/nutrition guru?

    I've vaguely heard of the carnivore diet, but I never really understood the premise. The goal is to forgo 100% of carbs because... carbs are bad? As far as I'm aware, I thought carbs had a bunch of benefits... glycogen stores, preserving lean tissue on cuts, etc.

    I could see someone make a case for the body functioning without carbs in a very specific context, for example in terms of hypertrophy, but in terms of overall health... I'm not so sure.

    I'm not an expert, but Lyle is, and I agree with Lyle. How can a medical professional, or nutrition expert, actually recommend a diet with zero fiber? That seems like what would be the start and end of the 'debate' in one sentence.

    Also, just thinking about it from a perspective of missing out on food diversity, carnivore diet followers just miss out on certain vitamins and minerals for funsies? Vitamin K kind of a bad one to exclude from your diet for general health.

    Again, I don't know this Bart guy, but kind of feels like a pop-up nutrition guru chasing clout.
    Hi mate. I would take the guys in my signature over Bart personally. Bart is an exercise physiologist who has a few peer reviewed published papers and also been part of being a reviewer of publications.

    He is correct that we do not "need" carbs / sugar / fiber. He consumes almost none. He does have the occasional beer tho. He says carbs mixed with fat are the biggest problems. The Randle cycle is his main argument against carb consumption.

    I messaged Alan the other day about bart and his stance on the Randle cycle in which Alan said he will look into it. Hope he gets the time to maybe challenge bart lol.
    Alan Aragon, Brad Schoenfeld, Stu Phillips, Lyle McDonald. FTW.

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  7. #7
    Registered User allrnder's Avatar
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    well lyle has seen the video. he has accepted the debate challenge. lets see where it goes from here. should be fun.
    Alan Aragon, Brad Schoenfeld, Stu Phillips, Lyle McDonald. FTW.

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  8. #8
    Registered User allrnder's Avatar
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    Alan Aragon, Brad Schoenfeld, Stu Phillips, Lyle McDonald. FTW.

    Not a physique competitor but hope to compete in powerlifting next year. Max bench 1RM with pause 160kg. 352lbs.

    Lift and learn.
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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by allrnder View Post
    Hi mate. I would take the guys in my signature over Bart personally. Bart is an exercise physiologist who has a few peer reviewed published papers and also been part of being a reviewer of publications.

    He is correct that we do not "need" carbs / sugar / fiber. He consumes almost none. He does have the occasional beer tho. He says carbs mixed with fat are the biggest problems. The Randle cycle is his main argument against carb consumption.

    I messaged Alan the other day about bart and his stance on the Randle cycle in which Alan said he will look into it. Hope he gets the time to maybe challenge bart lol.
    We don’t need them for survival, but afaik there is very strong evidence for health benefits of regular consumption of fruit and/or vegetables while it’s more controversial how beneficial vitamin/mineral supplements are.
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  10. #10
    Registered User allrnder's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EiFit91 View Post
    We don’t need them for survival, but afaik there is very strong evidence for health benefits of regular consumption of fruit and/or vegetables while it’s more controversial how beneficial vitamin/mineral supplements are.
    Yes mate, need and beneficial are two different words. Bart says not needed. I havent heard him say they are not beneficial in any way however.
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  11. #11
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    All the people I know that go for these extreme diets have other serious issues + conspiracy nut jobs.
    I am talking about raw veganism or raw meat or 100% carnivore, not about vegans or guys on keto/paleo or people who just experimented for a short time out of curiosity.
    There was this blonde guy on youtube, bald in front, long hair in the back, who went complete carnivore, then complete raw carnivore, then used to keep his meat in a jar for weeks, so it gets 'healthy bacterias', and then eat it. You could see the guy was screwed in his head.


    Also, Bart Kay looks like the Milo Yiannopoulos of S&C and nutrition. Basically a troll.
    He is disputing a video of Neil Barnard, by acting like a complete moron.
    Last edited by jaxqen; 11-29-2021 at 12:16 AM.
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  12. #12
    Registered User allrnder's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jaxqen View Post
    All the people I know that go for these extreme diets have other serious issues + conspiracy nut jobs.
    I am talking about raw veganism or raw meat or 100% carnivore, not about vegans or guys on keto/paleo or people who just experimented for a short time out of curiosity.
    There was this blonde guy on youtube, bald in front, long hair in the back, who went complete carnivore, then complete raw carnivore, then used to keep his meat in a jar for weeks, so it gets 'healthy bacterias', and then eat it. You could see the guy was screwed in his head.


    Also, Bart Kay looks like the Milo Yiannopoulos of S&C and nutrition. Basically a troll.
    He is disputing a video of Neil Barnard, by acting like a complete moron.
    The blonde guy ur talking about it sverig3 or whatever. fuk that weirdo

    Bart disputing neil barnard he is accurate mostly. just over aggressive. Bart says there is not one single study on earth that can prove that any diet is best for humans. But claims he has found it and preaches is off the isatope study which is a guess still
    Alan Aragon, Brad Schoenfeld, Stu Phillips, Lyle McDonald. FTW.

    Not a physique competitor but hope to compete in powerlifting next year. Max bench 1RM with pause 160kg. 352lbs.

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